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Schaller VS Sperzel locking tuners


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#1 El_Natoro

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 08:06 PM

I ordered some Schaller locking tuners (the screw hole version) to see if the they would be a direct replacement. Well, they're not. But they cover up the old screw hole up pretty nicely and they look just like they should on the Studio. Only thing is that one of the tuners is pitted right out of the package, so they are going back.

But they accidentally sent me Sperzels at first. They don't cover up the old screw holes and they are the dowel type, but I am sort of impressed by the quality. The bushing is of a different design and a tighter fit. As a matter of fact, the tolerances seem to be tighter all the way around. I would just have to get used to the new look (not very hamerish, but still kinda cool) and either will have to fil in the holes or just put the screws back in.

I remember reading something about someone using jewel headed screw to plug the old holes to make it look snazzy (did I just say "snazzy"?, OMG). Where do I get those?

#2 El_Natoro

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 10:17 PM

I just realized that the Studio's headstock is too thick to have either set of tuners put on anyway, sheesh.

#3 tobereeno

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 11:50 PM

actually, it may not be too thick. Locking tuners are designed to have very little post sticking out to maximize break angle. You don't need much winding space as with lockers you'll have at most barely one wrap around the post.

I've been a very good customer to Sperzel (I've probably blown around $1000 on Sperzels over the years) and I like them enormously, but I can't say anything about the Schallers - I've never even seen a locking Schaller in person.
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#4 El_Natoro

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Posted 21 May 2005 - 07:42 AM

Thanks tobereeno,

I was expecting them both to be shorter, but I installed one of the Schallers (w/o putting the screw in, of course) and the "string" hole just barely cleared the post nut to where the string is riding or rubbing against it. That can't be right, can it?

Now, I didn't install the Sperzel, since I didn't want to drill a hole just to find out that it doesn't fit, but it does seem (by eyeballing it) that the Sperzel "string" hole is a tad higher than the Schaller. Also, I looked on the net for the Sperzel's specs and found that they are made for 9/16"-11/16" paddles. My Hamer measures just a hair under 11/16". So, I don't know if I want to drill to find out if it does fit.

Have you put the Sperzels on a Hamer? More specifically a Studio?

#5 Scottcrud

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Posted 21 May 2005 - 07:59 AM

I'm a sperzel user, they're the best as far as I'm concerned. The post-shafts are different sizes, taller closer to the nut, lower towards the top of the headstock...
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#6 El_Natoro

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Posted 21 May 2005 - 08:09 AM

Scottcrud,

What guitar do you have them on?

I just did more research on Sperzel specs and this site says that the maximum thickness of the headstock should be .650" and mine is .660". The recess around the post hole would probably make up for the .010" difference, but sheesh, this is cutting it close!

#7 Caddie

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Posted 21 May 2005 - 08:23 AM

Well there are Sperzel locking Tuners on my '96 Mirage and my '91 Vintage S. They were also on a '96 Daytona I owned. They work fine, no complaints. I have Schallers Locking Tuners on my Strat Plus and my Warmoth Tele. They work fine, no complaints.

As for tuner retrofits, I've never done one myself, but the word is that retrofit guitar components are rarely 100% "plug'n'play". This is why guys like BCR Greg earn the big bucks. They do indeed earn it.

My suggestion? - If you cannot install it to your satisfaction without a non-reversible change to the guitar, stop and take it to a good guitar tech or luthier.
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#8 Richard

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Posted 21 May 2005 - 01:23 PM

Sperzels would not fit on my Newport Pro. The headstock was too thick. and there was no way they would work. The Schallers just barely fit. I now use the Grover locking tuners. Some here dis them, but they work fine for me, and they're a virtually direct replacement for the stock Grovers.

#9 Scottcrud

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Posted 21 May 2005 - 01:34 PM

El Naturo,

I have them on my Robin Raider, and my Custom made Mockingbird, both guitars have 6 inline headstocks.
"If it cannot be done in 15 frets I just don't do it."
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#10 Guest_Mike Lee_*

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Posted 21 May 2005 - 01:48 PM

Guitars with tilt-back headstocks don't need staggered-height locking tuners. Call Carvin and get a 3 & 3 set of "regular" height Sperzels and they should be fine. I had a G&L Legacy with a thicker headstock (compared to Fender) and the staggered-height Sperzels were too low on the B & E strings. Carvin's 6-in-line set of standard height Sperzels fit fine.

I've had problems with string slippage on the high B & E on Sperzels, and breakage at the string post. The machining on the post leaves some sharp edges that can cut into the string. My current G&L Legacy came with factory Schaller lockers, and I like them better than the Sperzels.

#11 edgar_allan_poe

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Posted 21 May 2005 - 03:00 PM

El Naturo....where are you located? I have a few new sets of the Grover Locking tuners...I would be happy to send you a set..if they work...keep 'em and send me $20...if they don't work....send them back. Simple...

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#12 tone_loco

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Posted 21 May 2005 - 03:31 PM

El Naturo....where are you located? I have a few new sets of the Grover Locking tuners...I would be happy to send you a set..if they work...keep 'em and send me $20...if they don't work....send them back. Simple...

edgarallanpoe@verizon.net

Are the grover locking tuners any lighter than the rotomatics with the art deco/imperial keys? That's what newport pros have and I'm looking for something lighter. It turns out that the plastic buttons/knobs don't weigh all that much less. I was thinking the 'vintage' sperzels in aluminum might be quite a bit lighter, haven't seen the grover locking model.

And do you know if they have the same screw placement for the 3+3 sets?

#13 specialty guitars

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Posted 21 May 2005 - 11:44 PM

Thanks tobereeno,

I was expecting them both to be shorter, but I installed one of the Schallers (w/o putting the screw in, of course) and the "string" hole just barely cleared the post nut to where the string is riding or rubbing against it. That can't be right, can it?

Now, I didn't install the Sperzel, since I didn't want to drill a hole just to find out that it doesn't fit, but it does seem (by eyeballing it) that the Sperzel "string" hole is a tad higher than the Schaller. Also, I looked on the net for the Sperzel's specs and found that they are made for 9/16"-11/16" paddles. My Hamer measures just a hair under 11/16". So, I don't know if I want to drill to find out if it does fit.

Have you put the Sperzels on a Hamer? More specifically a Studio?

El_Natoro, some Hamers have some very thick headstocks. Sperzel has extra long tuners and bushings that will work on them. They must be special ordered, but do not cost extra.

The typical 6 in line sets are "height staggered", the 3x3's are not. But again, we can make up custom sets for anything you need.

Feel free to contact me with any questions. info@specialtyguitars.com

Paul

#14 tobereeno

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Posted 22 May 2005 - 02:49 AM

fwiw, on my inline 6 Hamer headstocks, I custom ordered six in line with all **shortest** posts - was able to get of them annoying string retainer bars after installation.

Stew-mac makes a mounting hole jig for all major tuner brands, it's very, very handy.
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#15 El_Natoro

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Posted 22 May 2005 - 07:07 AM

Well, thanks for the replies everyone. I also spoke with Uncle Greg yesterday, and he assured me that the Sperzels would fit. He also gave me some tips on installation. So I went ahead and put them in. That jig would have came in handy. Too bad it cost nearly as much as the tuners did. Those Sperzels are a little tricky to install. Anyway, Greg was right! They heights were fine. Thanks Greg.

Poe, thanks for the Grover offer, but I already made my move. However, it looks like someone else here is interested in them.