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marcnorth

What would you do????

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I hold this 2002 Explorer Pro for a law student in Lansing Michigan since the first of December. I bought this guitar brand new early 2003. I played it a couple of times over the years for no more than 10 or 15 minutes at a time. It's still a brand new guitar, not a mark or scratch on it, plastic still on the back covers. He picks it up on the 19th on his way home to Missouri for Christmas break, He inspected it before he left my house said cool, was happy as hell and payed me for it.

He calls me today sounding like he's really distraught and tells me he just pulled it out of the case for the fisrt time since he got to Missouri and when he got it into the bright light he can see what he says is a hairline crack where the neck joins the body. He says you can't see it in normal light but if you get it in bright light and hold it at the right angle you can see it. I told him as far as I know the guitar was in perfect condition when he left here with it. I asked him did he bang it or drop it and he says no of course. Wants to bring the guitar back and wants me to give him his money back when he comes through to go back to school on January 3rd.

What would you do?

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Tell him to fuck himself. Seriously.

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Tell him to fuck himself. Seriously.

hahahahahaha, love it.............

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I'd be curious to see what he's talking about what with "hairline cracks" and all that, particularly those that are invisible 'cept in special light and all that.

Then I'd tell him to go fuck himself.

OK I wouldn't go that far. A simply "no" would suffice.

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...He inspected it before he left my house said cool, was happy as hell and payed me for it.

I'm no lawyer so I have no clue what his legal rights are, but in my mind anyway that pretty much means he looked it over and agreed everything was satisfactory at the time of sale. I might be a tad more tactful about the wording of things, but "No" on the money back certainly doesn't seem unreasonable on your end (if that's the way you decide to proceed), especially if you're pretty sure the guitar was pristine when it left your house. I think as a buyer he was fortunate to be able to inspect the instrument in the first place before shelling out cash. Good luck with the deal whichever way you decide to handle it.

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Two things cross my mind...buyers remorse "shit I cant afford this especially at Christmas time..."

and the other, he bought it wants to "use" it (play it, show it off, whatever) and then wants to return it for his cash.

I'm leaning to the first one though, been there myself but got over it... :)

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Two things cross my mind...buyers remorse "shit I cant afford this especially at Christmas time..."

and the other, he bought it wants to "use" it (play it, show it off, whatever) and then wants to return it for his cash.

I'm leaning to the first one though, been there myself but got over it... :)

I'm thinking buyers remorse too.

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He's no lawyer either, so don't let him try to screw you. He inspected it and accepted it. He has to live with it. Hairline crack? Could it possibly be a finish check because he took it inside too quickly from a cold car?

No way you undo the deal-he has nothing to complain about. He's had the guitar for days in a car and who knows what happened to it after it left your place. Bottom line is that he accepted the goods, so you are under no obligation to return it.

My guess is that Mummy and Dahddy got pissed that they're paying for his tuition, books, etc and he's buying guitars!

Not your problem.

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Drop your pants, spread cheeks, sit on your scanner, position balls in "stun gun" mode, hit "scan," and e-mail image. Name the photo gonnasendthistoallyourfriends.jpg

Seriously, sounds like a nitro aging issue. Educate him on the fragility of nitro finishes and remind him that a crack in a nitro finish is not only not detrimental to a guitar construction-wise, but it is to be expected regardless of care or lack thereof.

If not ignorance, I agree, buyer's remorse. He's trying to screw you.

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Agreed.

That's an easy one. NO.

He inspected it and said it was cool. He accepted the guitar as offered.

(Even a first year law student knows that in basic terms, offer + acceptance = contract!)

:)

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Agreed.

That's an easy one. NO.

He inspected it and said it was cool. He accepted the guitar as offered.

(Even a first year law student knows that in basic terms, offer + acceptance = contract!)

:)

Sounds like an excellent and valuable lesson to further his law education.

+1 on the buyers remorse & parental intervention.

If there actually is an issue. Bright light + right angle sounds like a finish check. He probably drove it back in the trunk. He should have put it in the back seat in this weather. Most likely his fault due to extreme temperature exposure. He most likely caused it and now wants a refund. You are not Guitar Center. Deal is done. Besides a finish check is insignificant.

A structural crack will be more apparent from almost every angle and in poor light.

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Tell him to fuck himself. Seriously.

Yes. This is also why you shouldn't do deals at your house. Pissed off morons who know where you live can be trouble!

-Austin

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Absolutely not.

For all the reasons cited in the above posts.

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Drop your pants, spread cheeks, sit on your scanner, position balls in "stun gun" mode, hit "scan," and e-mail image. Name the photo gonnasendthistoallyourfriends.jpg

Now I cannot take that image off of my head, LOL! :)

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Definatly a NO-GO. I would be polite and firm about it. and keep it very brief. Save all the E-mails from him and that you sent also.

I could tell you this. I been on Ebay for some time now with a 100% feedback rating and mostly all guitar sales.

More often than not someone has SERIOUS GAS for a guitar makes the move to pull the trigger. Once the guitar arrives and they play it a few minutes? The GAS is GONE as is their CASH? And the regrets and buyers remorse sets in.

Fortunatly I sold a Strat that was NOT an Ebay sale. A fellow contacted me through Ebay and asked me if I still had the Strat for sale? He was willing to pay the price etc etc.

So he pay-pals the money I insure, pack, and ship the Strat. He sends a message upon arrival how much he loves the Strat, its the nicest Strat he's ever played or seen. Its his #1 and on and on and on.

Three days later he sends me a note saying he doesn't mean to bitch or sound foolish he does LOVE the guitar. But theres a Ding in it I didn't mention. So I'm thinking, maybe I missed a small ding. But I do know there were no dings into the wood NONE. Pick-Rash and your basic surface swirls was the only issue's. So Im interested in seeing this ding.

Also in the meantime he makes referrence to the possibility of it happening during shipping? In other words would I be willing to file a claim? So I didn't say anything at this point. I wanted to see the ding first.

This is what arrives.

untitled.jpg

Snapshot_20090725.jpg

I happened to send the lower photo to another fellow along with about twenty other of every concievable angle. But this is the exact spot where his his ding is. Only it wasn't there when I took the photos.

Point is that "ding' didn't happen at my home,nor did it happen during shipping. Its a Ding that unfortunatly "just" happened at his home, and I'd bet its not 12hrs old from the time the photo was taken. Sad but true. He go's on to make mention how it probly happened from another guitars strap button? Whiich is probly exactly what happened.

But I told him in a nice way. I'm not filing a false claim and I'm not giving him a dime back. He was welcome to do whatever he felt he needed to do. But I would be carefull not to file a false insurance claim. Because while you may get away with it "once". You certainly won't get away with it a couple times. And you very well may really need to file a claim that isn't bogus. Sort of like the story of the boy who crys Wolf?

Anyway to my astonishment, I recieved a E-Mail from him two days ago "after a month' asking if I would do a cash return on the guitar?

But this is the kind of people you come across every once in awhile. More often than not people are straight up and decent. But man, every now and then you catch a winner. And it sounds to me like you went out of your way to take care of this fellows guitar. Hand him a instrument in top notch condition. And the result is someone who basically just doesn't like the guitar or wants something else?

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Law student = broke

Classic case of buyer's remorse. Sucks that he knows your address and phone number though.

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I would just respectfully decline, remind him that he had the opportunity to inspect the guitar at your house, he did not ask for or receive an approval period and you cannot be responsible for any damage to the guitar once it left your house. Maybe explain about finish checks from opening a cold guitar case as a possible cause for the finish check.

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Law student = broke

Classic case of buyer's remorse. Sucks that he knows your address and phone number though.

That was my thought.

That's why I always sell shtuff here at the office. Go ahead burn it down... :)

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Guest JackButler

Sorry.. sounds like either the aforementioned buyers remorse.. holy crap I can't afford this or whatever.. or maybe even opps I left it in a cold car and brought it inside and opened the case immediately. No refund for you.

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I agree with all.

A. arraignments made to procure instrument, check.

B. inspection, transaction completed, all is happy and concluded, check.

C. Wants to return instrument for refund due to whatever reason?

See A & B.

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I echo Matthes's remarks.

Contracts is a first year law school course. If he took Contracts first semester he should know that he has a completed transaction on his hands. He accepted your offer and he paid for it. They key is that he had the opportunity to inspect the goods and he did so, did not find any issues, and then he paid you and accepted the guitar. Done deal.

He may try to claim there was a latent defect, i.e., something that could not been seen upon inspection. Usually a latent defect applies to a problem that cannot be seen, such as a stress fracture developing beneath the surface. That is not the case here. He says it is visible to the human eye, even if he has to hold it a certain way. He might try to scare you with that argument.

Read this to learn about the issues. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latent_defect

If I were you, I would stand firm but be polite. Tell him that you did not notice the problem and that he did inspect it and he did not see it then so it must not have been there at the time it changed hands.

His recourse is to sell it to somebody else. But now, he knows about it and he cannot honestly hide the fact if somebody asks.

Don't let this upset your holidays. Law students can get on their high horse and think they know something about "The Law."

Maybe you should send him a link to this thread and let him see how we got your back legally, practically, morally and emotionally.

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Right On.

Deal's done - he can sell it on if he wants, but we've got your back.

And there are a lot more of us than there are of him.

:)

GH

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Damn Marc, you're too nice a guy to have to deal with this crap!

"No" sounds good to me too.

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Thanks for all the good advice from you guys, I really appreciate it. :D

If I hadn't posted the question here I probably would have just took the guitar back and refunded his money. I know there was no crack in the guitar when he left here with it. He even says the crack is so fine you can't even see it. WTF!

I figured I didn't want to ruin his Christmas on Christmas day so I waited until today to call him. He's not a happy camper, was cussing me out real good when I hung up on him. Before it was over he accused me of knowing the crack was there and ripping him off on purpose.

He tried to tell me I was obligated to give him the money back just like if he bought a new car and was not satisfied with it after a couple of days he could return it.

I reminded him that he had inspected the guitar for almost an hour before he left here with it and when he left he was happy as could be. I also reminded him I offered no guarantee and as far as I know he could have caused it by leaving it in his car in the cold for 4 or 5 days and then taking it into the warm house and pulling it out of the case.

He says the lights were too dim in my basement to notice the crack. I have 4 lights in a track, 3 are 100 watt bulbs and 1 is 50 watts all of which were pointed toward the center of the room where the case was laying flat on the floor. The room is about 8X12.

So hopefully he won't come and try to burn my house down. :)

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Note to self........any deals I do with strangers take place outside of my home.

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