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RS Guitarworks Hamer Kit - Why a 250K Tone Pot?


MarkF786

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I tend to find a tone pot doesn't make much of a difference in the first half of travel, so maybe having a 250k makes some sense.

That's because many people put in audio taper pots in their tone control circuits. Audio taper pots (also called log) are made with a special taper to match human hearing for volume... we don't hear volume linearly, but they don't work as well for tone pots if you want a smooth ride down. As many people just crack their tone pots from one extreme to the other, it doesn't matter to most.

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But I have to say that I've used the RS Hamer Kit on a couple guitars. Once on a 79 Sunburst with a Duncan Custom and a PG set up and it worked great at taking that edge off.

This is what I said a 250K pot would do when I posted, and I think it is one of the points that Armitage is trying to get across: At the full setting (10, AKA 500K or 250K ohms between signal and ground), a 500K pot will bleed off fewer of the higher frequencies to ground than a 250K will; hence the 250K will be taking the 'edge' off. The 'feel' of the control will likely change some as well. I guess all this is where subjectiveness comes in, because for me this is NOT a good thing...YMMV. Look at it like a high performance car or bike: a throttle is adjustable. If it's too fast for you, back off off a bit; but it's nice to have it if you want it.

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At the full setting (10, AKA 500K or 250K ohms between signal and ground), a 500K pot will bleed off fewer of the higher frequencies to ground than a 250K will; hence the 250K will be taking the 'edge' off. The 'feel' of the control will likely change some as well. I guess all this is where subjectiveness comes in, because for me this is NOT a good thing...YMMV. Look at it like a high performance car or bike: a throttle is adjustable. If it's too fast for you, back off off a bit; but it's nice to have it if you want it.

I'm with you. The JB sounds awesome to me, it's about the best pickup around for playing solos and the reason is that upper mid spike!

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Good info here guys

If i want to change my vol pot from 500k to 250 k to get this upper midrange spike down

Will wiring a 500k resistor in parallel with the pot create the same effect as using a 250 k pot?.

Ive got 2 Studio Customs and have to have the tone around 6-7 no higher or its shrill sounding,wonder is this vol pot mod will do the trick?

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Hi - This is an interesting post. I had always thought that you used 500K for humbuckers and 250K for single coils, but I am modifying a Hamer tele right now with a TVJones in the neck. It was recommended that I use 500K for volume and 250K for tone. Any thoughts on this setup?? :angry:

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Good info here guys

If i want to change my vol pot from 500k to 250 k to get this upper midrange spike down

Will wiring a 500k resistor in parallel with the pot create the same effect as using a 250 k pot?.

Ive got 2 Studio Customs and have to have the tone around 6-7 no higher or its shrill sounding,wonder is this vol pot mod will do the trick?

it will make it sound like a 250 k pot wide open; but as you rotate the knob the taper will be different.

http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/pots...ts/potscret.htm

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Well, I've always viewed Armitage as a very knowledgeable member here and I'm not sure why there seems to be such a backlash against him. He's just providing us info that he believes (knows) to be correct. I think most HFC bros would want that kind of advice. I'm also not slamming Roy but you would tend to think that when it comes to electronics that there are certain facts that form the base of it's knowledge...much like 1+1 = 2 in math.

What's so wrong with being informed consumers?

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It had nothing to do with the electronics knowledge, but rather an accusation and insinuations made in a heated post. It happens to all of us from time to time. That part has been edited, and all the valuable and interesting electronics stuff remains. I think they may both be right and simply talking about different things.

Bill is right that leaving the tone pot at 500K would give you the additional adjustment if you want it. The additional 250K on a 500K audio-taper pot would all occur between 9 and 10 on the knob, which is theoretically right, but not very practical in my opinion. Guitarists aren't sitting there with a multimeter to dial in their tone.

Putting a 250K volume pot on the pickup (leaving the 500K tone pot in place) would reduce the resonant peak. However, leaving the 500K volume pot and changing the TONE pot from 500K to a 250K ,set to max, would introduce a slight high-frequency roll-off characteristic to the network. It's all a parallel circuit. Maybe from experimentation and listening, Roy has found this to be a more effective method of improving the tone to his ears. There's more than one way to skin a cat...

"What makes better tone?" is about the most subjective topic there is. Whatever makes the instrument sound the way you want it makes it right. Accusations of malfeasance on the subject are not going to be tolerated here. It was one little over-the-top statement, and it was removed. Neither party has written to complain about how the issue has been resolved.

Everybody can move along.

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Yeah, I was over the top, just got gob smacked once again by someone who should know better.

However, leaving the 500K volume pot and changing the TONE pot from 500K to a 250K ,set to max, would introduce a slight high-frequency roll-off characteristic to the network. It's all a parallel circuit.

Absolutely, and you'd think a guy who's business is selling pots specifically for guitars would know that. Oh well, we all move on.

And as we all know this is a public forum (and I mean that anyone can read it) and we all have to follow the rules set out for us by the guys who kindly keep this place running for us to share. I love this place, there's a lot of really sharp and interesting guys here, Hamer guitar talk or not.

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It had nothing to do with the electronics knowledge, but rather an accusation and insinuations made in a heated post. It happens to all of us from time to time. That part has been edited, and all the valuable and interesting electronics stuff remains. I think they may both be right and simply talking about different things.

Bill is right that leaving the tone pot at 500K would give you the additional adjustment if you want it. The additional 250K on a 500K audio-taper pot would all occur between 9 and 10 on the knob, which is theoretically right, but not very practical in my opinion. Guitarists aren't sitting there with a multimeter to dial in their tone.

Putting a 250K volume pot on the pickup (leaving the 500K tone pot in place) would reduce the resonant peak. However, leaving the 500K volume pot and changing the TONE pot from 500K to a 250K ,set to max, would introduce a slight high-frequency roll-off characteristic to the network. It's all a parallel circuit. Maybe from experimentation and listening, Roy has found this to be a more effective method of improving the tone to his ears. There's more than one way to skin a cat...

"What makes better tone?" is about the most subjective topic there is. Whatever makes the instrument sound the way you want it makes it right. Accusations of malfeasance on the subject are not going to be tolerated here. It was one little over-the-top statement, and it was removed. Neither party has written to complain about how the issue has been resolved.

Everybody can move along.

Yes, it was not the content that was the issue but rather the initial delivery.

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I've seen many debates of this type on the pedal geek boards. Hard math versus ears. If I read Roys posts accurately he also said that the 2 different circuits don't sound the same at all. EVERY part in the circuit can effect the sound it produces to some degree. Wether it's detectable or not is always the handy debate to the hard math types as if their ears can't teach them anything. To IMPLY that Roys circuit can't sound any different than the Hamer circuit and is a waste of money because of the theoretical mathmatics of a single pot in the circuit is as wrong as trying to cling to that false assumption to try and justify making that statement in the first place. YOU being an electronics guy should know this. You got your intellectual dander up for nothing and trashed a guys business and character in the process. You owe him an apology for that. Just because there are other shysters out there doesn't mean Roy is one. You should be asking YOURSELF why you're behaving like this. You're as wrong as 2 left shoes. Moving on now.

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