Jump to content
Hamer Fan Club Message Center

Need help tracking down guitar history...


Recommended Posts

I'm trying to find out the origins of my latest purchase...1978 Les Paul Standard 25th Ann.

IMG_0003_zpsf8094fec.jpg

It was supposedly stolen from a guitar shop in Baltimore, recovered, and then purchased....then sold to the guy that I bought it from. After it was stolen from the shop the serial # was removed. I'm trying to find out the origin of this LP to find out the serial #.

If anybody from the Baltimore area might possibly know the shop where this LP might have originated from, I WOULD GREATLY APPRECIATE IT!

Thanks in advance!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have you started checking with Gibson yet? If the exact model of this guitar can be I.D.'d, they may be able to tell you when they were made, and where they were shipped to--hopefully they'll have names of music stores and addresses where these guitars were sent, if it was THAT limited of an edition. Just follow the leads, like they do on the cop shows. Also, have you done a cavity search inside the guitar, for any markings?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have some very exciting news regarding this mystery Les Paul.

I took it to Pete Moreno's shop today. Pete is a Luthier/former Gibson & Heritage employee....he has been the go-to guy in S.W. Michigan for the past 30 years.

Pete looked the guitar over and seemed to think that everything was legit....definitely not a Chinese fake, like some people told me it was. He started examining the back of the headstock and got out his super powered magnifying glass. He was able to make out at least 2 of the 8 #s in the serial #!!!!!

Pete is going to strip the back of the headstock tomorrow and he seems to think that he may be able to recover the rest of the serial #!!!! Then the mystery will be over!!!

Needless to say, I'm pretty excited!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What fucking IDIOT would think that was a Chinese copy?

Let me guess...TGP commenters?

They think EVERYTHING is a Chinese fake.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The latest....

Well, stripping the finish off the back of the headstock revealed....NOTHING!!! The numbers we thought we saw last night were evidently a mirage.

nash2_zpse35c2809.jpg

Now I know for sure that this Les Paul was not made in Kalamazoo....DAMMITTTTT!!! The one sure way to know it to take off the nut and look at the fretboard binding...if it has a "T" shape, its Nashville....no grove, Kalamazoo.

nash1_zpsab6555d1.jpg

Pete told me to call an old friend of his that works in the custom shop in Nashville...he said he may be able to shed some light on this mystery 25th Ann Les Paul.

Stay tuned...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The mystery deepens.....

It looks like it never had a S/N stamped there, it looks too clean, is there any evidence it's been ground off ?

It would require removing quite a lot of the back of the headstock as a stamped in S/N is quite deep, I don't think Gibson were ink stamping the S/N's at that time but I may be wrong.

Good luck with the quest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As noted above, for a while there in the mid-70s Gibson was using printed stickers (the finish was on top of these stickers.) I always kind of liked that, to be honest. My guess is this was one of those. 25th Anniversary Les Pauls would have been in 1977, so the time frame is right. I don't recall seeing silverburst until a few years later (mostly LP Customs, 1979-1980) but I might be mistaken about that and "silverburst" makes sense for a 25th (Silver) Anniversary.

Cool guitar. I bet it's pretty heavy, from that vintage (not that there's anything wrong with that.) That one hasn't spent too much time in the sun...a lot of the original silverbursts have turned greenish.

As far as Baltimore music stores (I've lived around here since 1979), your best bets back then were Gordon Miller Music in Towson and Bill's Music House in Catonsville. Gordon Miller is long gone (thanks, GC) but Bill's is still around. Maybe they could help? http://www.billsmusic.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well...it looks like the saga of this 1978 Nashville made, 25th Anniversary Les Paul is over for now. I am still trying to get a call into Pete's friend that works at the Gibson Custom Shop, but it seems like getting a hold of those folks is quite difficult.

I was able to determine some things for sure about this guitar though.....

* Its not a Chinese fake

* It is a 1978 Gibson Les Paul

* It was made in Nashville

* The 25th Ann inlay is factory, so is the fretboard

Granted, without a serial #, there is a lot left to be told...but I'm glad to play it just like it is.

I touched up the back of the headstock...

01100_zps4b8bb422.jpg

...and here she sits with my Alex Skolnick H 150 and the 66 Bandmaster

0101_zps07c0a8a6.jpg

Thanks to all who contributed information and tried to assist me in hunting down info on this mystery Les Paul!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My theory: A special production run between Gibson and a vendor (e.g., Guitar Center) in 1977 to commemorate the 25th anniversary of the Les Paul guitar. If silverburst didn't come out in Gibson's product line for another year or two, maybe--if this was a special order limited production run--the silverburst on this guitar was a proof-of-concept run.

Gretsch/GC did something like this in 2010, when GC had an exclusive run of orange single cutaway hollowbody 5120-style Electromatic basses. They were really off the grid--they weren't on Gretsch's or GC's websites. The only way to find out about it was to stumble onto a discussion on a bass or Gretsch forum. The only way you could find one was to go to a GC and see if they had one in stock. If they did, you bought it and took it home. If they had already sold one, they probably wouldn't be able to get another one unless it was trans-shipped from another GC.

A year or two after that run was over, Gretsch came out with a similar bass, but it was more expensive, had different pickups (the first version had USA-made TV Jones Thunder 'trons), fret markers (from half-moon to clouds), and the scale was changed from 32" (which was awesome) to 34".

Here was my special edition GC version:

DSC06419.jpg

And here's the version once Gretsch decided to productize it:

g5440lsb-orange-xlg.jpg

So I'm wondering if this silver anniversary LP was an off-the-grid special production (therefore not documented in the normal way) that resulted in silverbursts showing up on other things for awhile.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

....and now the final chapter. I received this from Gibson today.

Hello Brent,

The instrument appears to be consistent with a real Gibson, but not a regular production model. It may have been a dealer exclusive model or custom build (like an original owner’s 25th anniversary). Thanks.

Best Regards,

Bob Burns

Gibson Customer Service

1-800-4GIBSON

[email protected]

....So....I guess that's about it.icon_smile.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Strange guitar. Gibson never had any 25th anniv. models ( the only known with number 25 was 25/50). Did you blacklight it? Hard to believe that it is original color ( if it is, it's probably modern, or refin, more pics would help, I might be wrong here). The headstock looks small, although I couldn't tell for sure from the pic, but looks modern ( or original , if you will) ('50s or '82 and up), which differ from '70s headstock, that is quite big and you can't miss it. They ( Standards) never came with ebony fb with the exception of Pro model, but Pro was Deluxe and came with soapbars ( would be nice to look inside the PU cavities). Also the neck wood shows mahogany 1pc, and in the 70s they all were maple 3pc ( with the exception of early 70s). If it was before 77, then it would have a sandwich body, and you'd definitely see it, as the paint tends to show the seams over the years. Binding does not look 70s ( again specific photos would help). Tuners on the 70s are very specific and quite different, mostly w/o nut and with big diameter 2 level bushings.

Also there was no special runs for any GC or SamAsh in the 70s, as far as I know.

Guys in Gibson support are a joke. They will help in some definite cases with serial number, if that serial falls into their database ( if the Standard from 77 and up does not have Made in USA stamp, they will tell you that most likely it's fake, which makes me laugh). No help with guitars from 68-76.

I'd look at headstock and compare it against any modern. Looks like it's the same size. And if it is, this guitar is from anywhere between 83 and up. Pics of the control cavities would help, do they have metal inserts in them? Under the metal insert in the control cavity there usually are stamps of all kind, showing the date, the color etc.

It definitely could be one off, ordered for someone who turned 25, but if it happened in the 70s, I'm pretty sure, it would have big headstock, maple neck and all other attributes of the 70s ( on the other hand, as far as I know, Gibson does not take any orders from private parties, may be they do now, but I'm pretty sure they didn't back then, again, you never know - may be some worker turned 25, or celebrated his 25th year of working for them)

It would be interesting to see more pics of it, of course if you are interested in further investigation :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Justkid - Gibson DID do a small run of 50 LP CUSTOMS as 25th Anniversary Models in Silver (not Silverburst), but those were for GC only and were done in late 1978. I still don't believe that this was a 1977 Gibson "Anniversary" Model (as originally stated by the OP) for many reasons, including several that you mentioned.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Spill the beans, Jay.

FWIW - my late '78/early '79 has a stamped (not inked) serial number and the last 3 or 4 digits are quite a bit lighter (read: barely there) compared to the rest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Justkid - Gibson DID do a small run of 50 LP CUSTOMS as 25th Anniversary Models in Silver (not Silverburst), but those were for GC only and were done in late 1978. I still don't believe that this was a 1977 Gibson "Anniversary" Model (as originally stated by the OP) for many reasons, including several that you mentioned.

Spent couple of hours trying to find any info on that GC run of 50. I do not have any info on them in several books that I have. So if you have any links I'd be happy to learn more. And being a big fan of 70s LP ( of which I still have a lot), I'm gonna be on a quest to find one.

Funny thing happened while I was going thru the google pages. Somewhere in teen pages it showed the link - Gibson Les Paul Custom 25 Anniversary ! Yes! Finally ! I got it! The link lead me to ebay auction that closed about 4 years ago. I clicked on that link...and what do I see - it's a link to an auction for 25/50 that I won. Funny!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's a nice write up (with pics) of it in the second volume of the Robb Lawrence Les Paul book.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...