LucSulla Posted February 2, 2017 Author Share Posted February 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, FGJ said: There's a ton of truth in that, however, such behavior is not without reasonable justification. As others have observed elsewhere, it's easier to add grit to a Fender clean tone than it is getting Fender cleans out of harsher-toned amps. Of course, that doesn't mean you can't get cleans out of a Marshall, etc., but not all "cleans" are equivalent. Now, I'm sure there are amp brands outside of the Big Three (i.e., Fender, Marshall,VOX) which may approximate tones of a combination of any of those three, but the situation you described makes a lot of sense where one might only be able to afford one amp. I'm definitely of the own-a-Fender-but-get-some-effects-pedals-to approximate-a Marshall-tone rather than trying to get a Marshall to sound like a Fender. Of course, if I had the funds and the space, I'd definitely get both (or some boutique-quality amp that simulates them)! I don't have a problem with people playing on, well, anything really. I just can't stand it when people get more caught up in being in the club than following their own ear, particularly when they start using totally ridiculous logic like, "Yeah, man, I really love the way your rig sounds, but, you know, Mesa just doesn't have that soul like a twin." What? Did you like how it sounded or not? It reminds of one time after a show someone saying, "Hey, man, I loved your sound until I realized you were playing one of those pointy guitars." I bet this is the same kind of person that refers to crayons by flavor. And I'm not talking about dudes who went Fender combo to stay on the cheap. I'm talking about people who are shelling out a lot of money for vintage amps so they can pose with them on stage and then shell out even more money making it fit back into their playing style. They'll sell one perfectly good rig that had the wrong nameplate, spend a herd of money getting just the right piece of vintage gear, and then spend a herd of money getting that vintage outboard gear to sound like what they were doing before. Seriously. I saw one cat in town dump a great sounding (for what he was doing) rig consisting of a Mesa 5:25 with an Axe FX to go to two vintage twins and a punch of vintage and boutique pedals, many of which are apparently used simply to make a Fender sound like a Mesa 5:25 with an Axe FX out front. In the grand scheme of things, I know it's minor, but there is something about people sublimating their own taste in order to appeal to some group of self-appointed cool kids that sticks in my craw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KH Guitar Freak Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Meh. People have to understand that not all vanilla flavoured ice creams all taste the same. They may be similar, but there are minor differences Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FGJ Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 5 hours ago, LucSulla said: I don't have a problem with people playing on, well, anything really. I just can't stand it when people get more caught up in being in the club than following their own ear, particularly when they start using totally ridiculous logic like, "Yeah, man, I really love the way your rig sounds, but, you know, Mesa just doesn't have that soul like a twin." What? Did you like how it sounded or not? It reminds of one time after a show someone saying, "Hey, man, I loved your sound until I realized you were playing one of those pointy guitars." I bet this is the same kind of person that refers to crayons by flavor. And I'm not talking about dudes who went Fender combo to stay on the cheap. I'm talking about people who are shelling out a lot of money for vintage amps so they can pose with them on stage and then shell out even more money making it fit back into their playing style. They'll sell one perfectly good rig that had the wrong nameplate, spend a herd of money getting just the right piece of vintage gear, and then spend a herd of money getting that vintage outboard gear to sound like what they were doing before. Seriously. I saw one cat in town dump a great sounding (for what he was doing) rig consisting of a Mesa 5:25 with an Axe FX to go to two vintage twins and a punch of vintage and boutique pedals, many of which are apparently used simply to make a Fender sound like a Mesa 5:25 with an Axe FX out front. In the grand scheme of things, I know it's minor, but there is something about people sublimating their own taste in order to appeal to some group of self-appointed cool kids that sticks in my craw. Yeah, I definitely get the status-chasing thing - it's nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucSulla Posted February 4, 2017 Author Share Posted February 4, 2017 Well, got it today and ran it through it's places. Initial thoughts: WHO ON EARTH NEEDS MORE GAIN THAN THIS! Being that it is sort of a hot-rodded Marshall, I did the old JCM800 trick of throwing a 7-band EQ into the FX loop, and for fuck's sake... Off, and you can really do most any kind of metal that existed before 1992 except for maybe some of the seriously out there stuff like Beneath the Remains era Sepultura or something. Click the EQ on, and you can pretty easily get into Lamb of God or Pantera levels a brutality. So my initial impression was correct - there is plenty of gain available for most everything, and what isn't there is quite easily applied if you are remotely familiar with push a JCM 800. Most of the comments about it not being teh Br00talz are probably from kids that still think more gain = more metal. The only reason to have a pedal at all is if you want a little more sizzle, which is debateable. I definitely like it with the EQ off for leads in order to get some mids back. Throwing a Wampler Pinnacle on smooths it out a bit more, but I don't know if it's strictly necessary. FX Loop on this thing kills the Mark V on a side note. Having a separate send for pedals or line level is a nice touch. I'm going to give it a couple of weeks to get over the honeymoon, but this may very well be what I was looking for all these years - basically a simple amp with a few modern bells and whistles that just make sense that sounds like what you always hope a Marshall will sound like. Plus, the clean channel is gorgeous, and the boost on Channel 1 is very usable and is something I will explore quite a bit more. It's been a long time since I have pulled an amp out of a box and had it put a smile on my face that quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwayne Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 So I may have missed it but did you get the EL-34 or 6L6 version? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucSulla Posted February 4, 2017 Author Share Posted February 4, 2017 16 minutes ago, gwayne said: So I may have missed it but did you get the EL-34 or 6L6 version? EL34. Not a big fan of 6L6s in general, though I do like Simul-Class Boogies that can run both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARM OF HAMER Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 Ronnie Montrose used a Bogner "SHIVA" for many years................huge sound! His was modded though.................great amp! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Scepter Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 Montrose... my favorite guitarist! Bogner Shiva and he also used a fender bandmaster 3x10 for rock candy... also Fender Champs as well... he & George Lynch was the main reason I bought my Fender Super Champ back in the early 80's http://www.guitarplayer.com/miscellaneous/1139/ronnie-montrose/21663 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucSulla Posted February 4, 2017 Author Share Posted February 4, 2017 The irony here is that I hate Phish yet now more or less have the same two amps that Trey Anastasio has used in his live rig pretty recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucSulla Posted February 6, 2017 Author Share Posted February 6, 2017 I am now debating trying out an Ecstasy as well, haha. There is a one somewhat local for under $2k that is in great condition. I know I used to love them. Best case - I keep the Shiva and and the Ecstasy, sell the boogies, kick in a little of my own cash, and end up right where I want to be. Practiced with the Shiva today, and it kills. It was honestly has plenty of gain on tap once you get it cranking a little for plenty of metal chugs without even using the boost. I guess you couldn't play djent on it set up like that, but who wants to play that? The rest of the band felt it overall was an improvement as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobB Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 Does the Ecstasy have any type of power reduction or a "variac"-type function? Seems like a 100w head would have to get pretty cooking (LOUD) to open up the power section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucSulla Posted February 6, 2017 Author Share Posted February 6, 2017 2 minutes ago, RobB said: Does the Ecstasy have any type of power reduction or a "variac"-type function? Seems like a 100w head would have to get pretty cooking (LOUD) to open up the power section. I think it does, but I probably won't actually get it. I've wanted one for, jeez, 15 years now? However, I'm not sure if there's a point to it when I have something I am really happy with already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KH Guitar Freak Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 After I get a Mesa Boogie JP-2 head, the next on the list shall be a Bogner Ecstasy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCChris Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 10 hours ago, LucSulla said: I am now debating trying out an Ecstasy as well, haha. There goes your "basically a simple amp" benefit lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucSulla Posted February 6, 2017 Author Share Posted February 6, 2017 59 minutes ago, MCChris said: There goes your "basically a simple amp" benefit lol. This is precisely why I have tried to avoid amp GAS. I knew I would finally make my way to Bogner, and then I knew I would want all of them because they've never made an amp I didn't want to own. I just suppressed the urge ever since I played by first Ecstasy back in 2002. Now... My god, what might I become? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixesandsevens Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 13 hours ago, LucSulla said: Best case - I keep the Shiva and and the Ecstasy, sell the boogies, kick in a little of my own cash, and end up right where I started. FTFY. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucSulla Posted February 6, 2017 Author Share Posted February 6, 2017 Hey, I'm up on the house at the moment! And I resisted the urge... I think. If he goes down another $100... The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
django49 Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 With mention of the various models in the Mesa Mk series.....Anyone (other than me) a fan of the Mesa Quad? Yeah, I know, rack mount is out and a PITA to haul around. The Quad Preamp was aimed at having the "best" of the Mk 2 and Mk 3. With 2 different "clean" and lead sounds, plus selectable EQs, it is pretty versatile. Sounds killer (IMO) with the Simul-Class 2:90 power amp, though the 2:50 is not shabby either. Clean is a relative term, as you need to get the first volume up to best drive the lead........More recent Mesa offerings with a completely separate clean channel give greater flexibility there. Of course they have been out of production since forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockbody Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 3 hours ago, django49 said: With mention of the various models in the Mesa Mk series.....Anyone (other than me) a fan of the Mesa Quad? Yeah, I know, rack mount is out and a PITA to haul around. I had chance once to trade for either a Quad Preamp or Triaxis setup and went with the Triaxis. I got a lot of use out of that Triaxis along with a TC G-Force (was that THE Mesa rack setup in the 90s, or what?), but sometimes I wish I had gone with the Quad. All my playing these days is through a LSS, but I still keep a Mk IVa to bring the rawk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
django49 Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 3 hours ago, Lockbody said: I had chance once to trade for either a Quad Preamp or Triaxis setup and went with the Triaxis. I got a lot of use out of that Triaxis along with a TC G-Force (was that THE Mesa rack setup in the 90s, or what?), but sometimes I wish I had gone with the Quad. All my playing these days is through a LSS, but I still keep a Mk IVa to bring the rawk. The Triaxis was a lot of fun, once you took the time to set it up. With MIDI, proper programming and an expression pedal to be able to change selected parameters on the fly, it seemed like you could do anything. When teamed with the 2:90 (which had its own preamp tubes in the power amp for even more versatility!) and a pair of 2 x 12s it was an absolute killer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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