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Made the Leap... (Long Post - Sorry...)


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Rainy weekend in Chicago, daughters off with their prom dates, wife off with her friends.  Decided to do some recording.  Spent the better part of Saturday morning trying to get inspired - instead spent the time trying to get the sound in my head to appear out of the gear on the floor.  No luck.  Pedalboard wasn't cooperating and the Boss GT-100 was sounding like it's typical mediocre self.

Screw it -- Time has come to shake things up.

Gathered up every pedal off the board (except the tuner and volume pedal), the GT-100, and a MIM Strat that has been collecting dust, threw them in the back of the car and headed to GC to engage in a little swap shopping.  Two hours later, I walked out with a new Helix.

Initial impressions...  

Heavy (~15 lbs) and built like a tank.  I/Os are plentiful and will serve well for any situation -- Recording or live.  Even has a mic input (which I'm pretty sure will never get used). The display and scribble strips are bright and easy to read from any angle.  The UI and controls are very intuitive and easy to manipulate without having to do a lot of menu diving, making adjustments a breeze.  I like the fact that it has impedance matching and a pad option for the guitar input.  Outputs have plenty of gain and headphone amp is more than sufficient.  These guys really did think of everything.

After doing the obligatory firmware update (shipped with version 1.06 -- Latest is v2.21) and downloading the editing/library software, it was time to dive in.

First stop -- Presets

A few of them are pretty good.  The majority of them are not, but that was expected.  A lot of them sounded way too bright and shrill.  I opened the Global EQ and rolled off the high end, which helped a lot.  To Line 6's credit, they didn't build a lot of wacky noisemaker patches like Boss likes to do.  There were a couple, but not many.

Next stop -- Models and effects...

I am by no means an amp expert.  I know what I like, and I have a general idea of what different brands/styles tend to provide.  The Helix is a playground in this department.  The available amps are plentiful, and the tweakability is impressive.  Having the ability to adjust tube sag and bias along with all the front panel controls (including the 4 band EQ on the Mesa Mark IV) was a pleasant surprise.  You can match up the amp with the original speaker cab or mix and match to your heart's content -- They're all there.  Mic it up with a selection of 16 different options, including dynamic, ribbon or condensor types, set the distance from the cabinet, and add room reflections if desired.  Then there's the rat hole known as IR's -- I know nothing about these yet, but the option to use them in the future is there...

As for effects, for the most part I like what I've heard so far.  What I like most is the ability to use multiple instances of a style in the chain.  Example -- On my analog board, I had a clean boost ahead of the OCD for the option to push the front end of the amp a bit, add the distortion pedal or have both going for full drive.  I couldn't do that on the GT-100 -- It was one or the other.  On the Helix, I could have 4 or 5 (or more) different overdrive/distortion pedals in the same patch if I wanted, and then set up snapshots of different combinations within the patch for different parts of the song, all available with a single switch.  (My favorite combo so far is a TS808 with the gain turn all the way down and volume up in front of a Timmy Drive...)  Same thing goes for the other effects.  Tonally, the effects sound good and are very useable.  Are they exact duplicates of the originals?  For the ones I'm familiar with, no, but damned close.

Building a patch from the ground up is a breeze using the editing software.  BIg thumbs up in this department.  While using the control on the board is not difficult, seeing everything on your monitor and using a mouse is always easier.  Again, very intuitive interface makes it easy to add and adjust all the parameters.  Without cracking the manual, I was able to build a couple different patches with little effort.  Very impressive tool...

Negatives

Tuner -- While it is a huge display, the tuner is slow to respond and not particularly accurate.  IMO, you're better off with an outboard tuner.

Looper -- Easy to access and use, but available time is too short.  I'll use one of the 4 available send/returns for an outboard unit.

In the end...

I have no experience with the other modelers out there (Kemper, Fractal, etc.), but I like what I'm hearing out of the Helix.  The clean tones are not digital/fizzy (my biggest fear from long past Line 6 experience).  While the tone was a bit cold & harsh out of the box, it was easy to warm it up.  For my ears, the models sound and respond well to changes in playing, etc.  The unit is a breeze to understand and use without having to crack open the manual.  It sounds infinitely better than the Boss GT-100, and offers a lot more options than my old pedal board.

End result -- Less gear, more options, better sound.  I have a lot more to learn about this unit but, so far, no buyers remorse.  Ask me in a couple months if I feel the same way...

Oh yeah...  The weekend is gone and I still didn't get anything recorded...

 

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1 minute ago, ArnieZ said:

did you get the new LT unit or the original?

ArnieZ

Original.  Was planning on the LT, but I got more than expected on the trade in gear so I went whole hog!

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It's really ironic that with all the amps and pedals that Line 6 has modeled the one thing they have never been able to get right is a functional tuner. it's like they've never seen a TU-2 lol.

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55 minutes ago, stonge said:

It's really ironic that with all the amps and pedals that Line 6 has modeled the one thing they have never been able to get right is a functional tuner. it's like they've never seen a TU-2 lol.

It could also be that I'm a bit of a tuner snob.  The Peterson strobes and the TC Poly Tune pedal work great, are responsive and accurate.  When I try to use the one in the Helix, the display says I'm in tune and I can hear it's off -- By a lot.

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I wonder if there is a way to recalibrate the tuner. Have not heard this complaint before re the Helix, but that don't necessarily mean anything. Tuner seems pretty basic and hard to F up that bad.

ArnieZ

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Looking at the manual, there is a way to adjust offsets for each note.  I need to look up the parameters of the Peterson to see what they use, then emulate that.  Won't help the response time, but I can work around that...

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9 hours ago, Teh said:

It could also be that I'm a bit of a tuner snob.  The Peterson strobes and the TC Poly Tune pedal work great, are responsive and accurate.  When I try to use the one in the Helix, the display says I'm in tune and I can hear it's off -- By a lot.

Nah, it's just that Line's version of the tuner really sucks.  it's like they had a summer intern code it for the original POD, and they just port the same crap file into every product since. With all the thousands of dollars they've spent to buy and model vintage amps and pedals, it's ridiculous that they just can't get a tuner more accurate than plus or minus one semi tone. If GM made a car with three round tires and one square tire, at least they'd eventually notice and fix the problem. Someday a Conn Strobe tuner  (like the ones in the Live Rust photos) will be vintage enough for Line 6 to model, but I'm sure they'll model the clanking noise of the spinning dial while still leaving it functionally useless.

Back on topic, Darc has a Helix and gets some great sounds out of it.

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5 hours ago, scottcald said:

I've never traded in stuff at GC.  Are they pretty decent with what they give you for stuff? 

It depends on the store, the manager, and the store's traffic.  The GC closest to me (about a mile away) is terrible on trades, but they only carry the low end crap so there's no reason to go there (other than strings).  The store I use is about 45 minutes away, much better selection and a lot more traffic.  I feel I get a fair -- Not great, just fair -- value on trades.

I look at it this way -- There are no delusions that I'm making money in the trade.  It's all about convenience.  The gear I trade in is typically pretty common, run of the mill stuff in good condition.  I could put it up on Flea Bay but, after listing fees, selling fees, PayPal fees, shipping costs, and the hassle of finding a box and the time to pack and ship, the net result isn't that much more than what I'd get for the trade.  Net out the 10% trade in discount on the new gear and it becomes even more acceptable.  Larger, more unique stuff (custom guitars, etc.) is exempt from this logic as the boys at GC typically don't know the value of it and will low ball the offer.

Reverb's better on the selling expenses, but the hassle factor still comes into play.  If I can walk in with gear I'm not using and walk out with gear I will use and little or no cash is exchanged, I take that as a positive.

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9 hours ago, Teh said:

I look at it this way -- There are no delusions that I'm making money in the trade.  It's all about convenience.  The gear I trade in is typically pretty common, run of the mill stuff in good condition.  I could put it up on Flea Bay but, after listing fees, selling fees, PayPal fees, shipping costs, and the hassle of finding a box and the time to pack and ship, the net result isn't that much more than what I'd get for the trade.  Net out the 10% trade in discount on the new gear and it becomes even more acceptable.  Larger, more unique stuff (custom guitars, etc.) is exempt from this logic as the boys at GC typically don't know the value of it and will low ball the offer.

Great points.  My experience with my local GC is that they'll give you some fraction of the recent prices on ebay for gear.  I forget exactly what it was, but it was between 0.5 and 0.8, if I recall.  I suspect you can nudge that upwards if you're taking something home that same day instead of trying to get cash.

I suspect you could also walk in with an idea of something on used.guitarcenter.com that you want to buy (or even put a hold on it) and do the trade in-store.  Man, I should do that... :D

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9 hours ago, Teh said:

It depends on the store, the manager, and the store's traffic.  The GC closest to me (about a mile away) is terrible on trades, but they only carry the low end crap so there's no reason to go there (other than strings).  The store I use is about 45 minutes away, much better selection and a lot more traffic.  I feel I get a fair -- Not great, just fair -- value on trades.

I look at it this way -- There are no delusions that I'm making money in the trade.  It's all about convenience.  The gear I trade in is typically pretty common, run of the mill stuff in good condition.  I could put it up on Flea Bay but, after listing fees, selling fees, PayPal fees, shipping costs, and the hassle of finding a box and the time to pack and ship, the net result isn't that much more than what I'd get for the trade.  Net out the 10% trade in discount on the new gear and it becomes even more acceptable.  Larger, more unique stuff (custom guitars, etc.) is exempt from this logic as the boys at GC typically don't know the value of it and will low ball the offer.

Reverb's better on the selling expenses, but the hassle factor still comes into play.  If I can walk in with gear I'm not using and walk out with gear I will use and little or no cash is exchanged, I take that as a positive.

So, did you get a new unit or a used one? 

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45 minutes ago, scottcald said:

So, did you get a new unit or a used one? 

New one.  Based on the FW revision in the unit (1.06), my guess is it's been there a while...

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1 hour ago, Teh said:

New one.  Based on the FW revision in the unit (1.06), my guess is it's been there a while...

Cool.  Thanks for the info.  I may haul some stuff down to one of the 4 within an hour or so around me to get a Helix LT.  

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On 5/2/2017 at 2:42 AM, scottcald said:

I've never traded in stuff at GC.  Are they pretty decent with what they give you for stuff? 

The local GC does not carry Mesa amps and for the first few years they were open, they would scour the local "penny saver"-type trade paper and call people asking them to bring their Mesa amps in to sell to them.

I took one of mine in once and they offered me $400 or $450 for it which was laughable.  I told them exactly that and said I was wondering, just out of curiosity, how much they would have sold it for.  As if it was a totally fair deal to me and without batting an eye, the guy said $900.  I think I was asking $700 or $750 for it.  They would have made 25-30% on it giving me my asking price.

I understand they need to make money, but I've never understood having to have 100% markup or it's not enough to bother with.  Shows like Pawn Stars or American Pickers seem to use this same approach.  Why is that?

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Burningyen might be able to provide some insight on the tuner issue (and anything else Helix).

I'm still thinking Kemper once I get paid on a certain sold guitar...  but posts like this and Burningyen's some time back give me pause...

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28 minutes ago, velorush said:

Burningyen might be able to provide some insight on the tuner issue (and anything else Helix).

I'm still thinking Kemper once I get paid on a certain sold guitar...  but posts like this and Burningyen's some time back give me pause...

 

Absolutely -- I've been reading Ben's comments on it over on TGP.   Some good info over there, but I wish there was a way to easily filter out all the BS posts (Not Ben's -- The other knuckleheads...) that make it difficult to find the relevant ones...

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hey, catching up on old threads and stumbled across this one. Yeah, I do most of my Helix posting over on TGP. But if you post here and tag me I'd be happy to answer any questions if I can.

The secret to the tuner is just to use the age-old tricks of using your neck pickup and rolling your guitar's tone knob all the way down. This gives the tuner fewer overtones to get "distracted" by.

As to Helix vs. Kemper, IMHO the Kemper is the way to go if:

-You want to do absolutely minimal tweaking.
-You're wedded to a very specific amp sound.
-You're picky about pitch FX.

On the flip side, the Helix is the way to go if:

-You need a floorboard unit.
-You have complicated routing needs (e.g. processing vocals, dual amp sounds).
-You're picky about fuzz pedals.
-You want to dabble in basic analog synth sounds.
-You want to take advantage of the integration possibilities with a JTV Variax.

I'm still really happy with the Helix. If Kemper came out with a floorboard tomorrow, I'd definitely consider it, but at this point the vocal processing and synthy sounds are probably enough to keep me tied to the Helix.

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On 5/2/2017 at 2:42 AM, scottcald said:

I've never traded in stuff at GC.  Are they pretty decent with what they give you for stuff? 

I once bought a Marshall Valvestate at a GC for $59. Then I sold it back to them for $120. Plus a Squire Strat I got at a thrift story for $100, they gave me $100.

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Thanks, Ben -- Will ping you if something specific comes up.  I've been building a few patches and really digging into the features.  The sound quality is heads & shoulders above anything I got out of a Boss MFX unit, and the editing is so simple the thing just begs to be tweaked.

Re: Variax -- I tried one of the originals 15 years or so back and was unimpressed.  However, all the talk about the upgraded electronics in the JTVs made me take another look once I got the Helix.  Ended up getting rid of a couple low end electrics that were collecting dust and picked up the Yamaha built Variax Standard last weekend.  Have been tweaking the setup and exploring models for the past week.  Still not the most comfortable neck but definitely better than the originals.  The single coil p'ups actually sound pretty good on their own.  

As for models, they sound pretty good.  I like most of the electrics they have in there -- the LP and Gretsch models are a lot of fun, as is the Rik 12 string in the bridge position.  As for the acoustics, the J200 and Martin 0-18 are my favorites.

I love how the Helix and Variax interplay -- The ability to change guitar models and tuning on the Variax when you change a patch in the Helix is a big plus.

I still prefer the feel and play of my "regular" electrics, but I can definitely see using the Variax live.  Will debut the Helix/Variax combo at a low pressure Sunday afternoon outdoor gig in a couple weeks where I typically switch a lot between acoustic and electric songs. In the past I'd use a Taylor T5 -- I'll bring it along as a backup in case the Variax tanks on me...

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