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Hamers vs. "boutique" guitars


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4 hours ago, tbonesullivan said:

Well, how exactly are we classifying "boutique"? I don't see many people call PRS guitars "boutique" even though their prices pretty much eclipse many of the boutique makers.

Personally, I classify boutique as hand made (although not a deal-breaker), small staff, usually expensive, and without an Asian leg of the company which makes less expensive versions of the more expensive models.
This in my opinion disqualifies the PRS and Hamer brands. As stated above, Jol tried to make Hamer boutique, and certainly preiced them that way, but the import line subtracted from their credibility.

 

2 hours ago, Ted said:

*Preface--I have never played a Huber, Knaggs, or Suhr.

All of the Hamers I've had were/are as good, or better than all the other high end guitars I've played/owned (The vast majority of times my Hamers were better).

So, what brands were you comparing them to?

 

30 minutes ago, cmatthes said:

Hamer made less guitars in their last 5 years than Nik made in one year.

Of course they did.  They were being phased out, for one thing, and their resources were being used to build Ovations and Guilds.
You can't get anything accomplished working on something 1 day out of the week, or whatever it was.

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Have had quite a few Hamer's and they have all been pretty great guitars, only thing not to like on any of them were maybe the neck profiles or maybe the tone wasn't my thing. Having said that I'll take either one of my Suhr's over any of my Hamer's. They just have everything I like in a guitar without any sacrifices.

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Just now, jettster said:

Have had quite a few Hamer's and they have all been pretty great guitars, only thing not to like on any of them were maybe the neck profiles or maybe the tone wasn't my thing.

So, your Hamers were great, except for their tone and their necks?

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My 2 cents....

From what I have witnessed thru my guitardroom encept thru life (since mid 70's).

The ones who start small, eventually get too big for there britches.

70's, early 80's Hamer, there was pretty much nothing custom, "pre~ boutique". Hamer was plowing the way. A "boutique Gibson" and then some.

Dean was very close behind, as well as B.C. Rich, a few other add to the mix. They were "boutique" before the word was used.

Eventually all have slumbered mentioned above to the demands of corporate entitlements of coin. Got to make that #.

 Compare Huber to a modern Hamer catalog guitar ? , sure, Huber is "more" boutique. 

Compare Huber to that Hamer Firebird custom order that was recently posted? coin toss, both Boutique.

Guitars come and go as well as getting your hands dirty to cnc machines.

When your lean, your mean. When your fat, you loaf.

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8 hours ago, kizanski said:

 

Please see the OP.
He didn't ask what function that one builder's fit & finish had. He asked how Hamer compares with other boutique builders.
If you think Hamer is as good or better, you either haven't played any Hubers, don't know what you're talking about, or both..
And I used to own a Roadstar II.  The inclusion of that guitar, and frankly that brand, into this discussion is laughable.

And being snarky is pointless. I said Hamers are as good as anything I've picked up, including:

  • Shishkov
  • MotorAve
  • Viktorian
  • Collings
  • Veillete-Citron

And to further clarify: that rarified air, they're all good and it gets into taste. I am absolutely certain I won't find a Huber appreciably better than any of the ones above. When you hit that level of build, it's preference. There are people who will swear on their dying breath that Parkers are the best thing ever made. I don't get it. "Better" is impossible to quantify, hence my Ibanez reference. It is a "better" tool for the task at hand than many guitars. You wanna look at the Art of Building? Cool, but art is in the eye of beholder and again check out the Parker forum if you want to find unshakable belief in "better."

And I stand by my contention that they're lovely works of art but Seasick Steve makes more compelling music than anyone on the HFC without any of that fancy stuff. These questions are fine for shooting the shit but it's like asking if French cuisine is "better" than Vietnamese. What do you like? That's the best.

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26 minutes ago, kizanski said:

So, your Hamers were great, except for their tone and their necks?

Not exactly. For example, I had a set neck Chap, Centaura, TLE and Special FM,  great tone, didn't care for the neck profiles on any of them. Nothing wrong with them quality wise, no different from any EBMM or Jackson guitars I've tried, just didn't care for the neck profiles. Cali's, Diablo's, I like the necks, but tone wise aren't near as versatile. My Suhr's have all of the above, outstanding neck profiles, top quality fit, finish, looks and can cover pretty much anything sonically that I need. Funny thing is, if Hamer was still producing similar guitars they would be significantly more expensive than either of these were.

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The three Hamer Triple Threats I've owned were absolutely in the same league as any Huber, PRS or Custom Shop Gibson I've played. 

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1 hour ago, BadgerDave said:

The three Hamer Triple Threats I've owned were absolutely in the same league as any Huber, PRS or Custom Shop Gibson I've played. 

Have always wanted to try a triple threat!

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5 hours ago, kizanski said:

Personally, I classify boutique as hand made (although not a deal-breaker), small staff, usually expensive, and without an Asian leg of the company which makes less expensive versions of the more expensive models.
This in my opinion disqualifies the PRS and Hamer brands. As stated above, Jol tried to make Hamer boutique, and certainly preiced them that way, but the import line subtracted from their credibility.

 

So, what brands were you comparing them to?

 

Of course they did.  They were being phased out, for one thing, and their resources were being used to build Ovations and Guilds.
You can't get anything accomplished working on something 1 day out of the week, or whatever it was.

Mike, I was including Fender Custom Shop, Gibson Custom Shop, Washburn Custom Shop, upper end Gretsch's, Tom Anderson, James Tyler, Kurt Wilson, Collins, high end PRSs, and I'm most likely forgetting some.

From looking at my list I guess it's based more on high price tags rather than on their true boutiqueness. 

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8 hours ago, polara said:

And I stand by my contention that they're lovely works of art but Seasick Steve makes more compelling music than anyone on the HFC without any of that fancy stuff.

In the end the whole boutique guitars are just stringed pieces of painted and many times CITES regulated wood. It's just how much labor and marketing goes into it to have it defined as a piece of art.

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8 hours ago, The Shark said:

Kizanski?  Snarky?  No.....

This is boutique...

IanAndersonFinished.jpg

As good as any guitar I've ever owned.  $4,200.

That is gorgeous. Classy.

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13 hours ago, polara said:

And being snarky is pointless. I said Hamers are as good as anything I've picked up, including:

  • Shishkov
  • MotorAve
  • Viktorian
  • Collings
  • Veillete-Citron

And to further clarify: that rarified air, they're all good and it gets into taste. I am absolutely certain I won't find a Huber appreciably better than any of the ones above. When you hit that level of build, it's preference. There are people who will swear on their dying breath that Parkers are the best thing ever made. I don't get it. "Better" is impossible to quantify, hence my Ibanez reference. It is a "better" tool for the task at hand than many guitars. You wanna look at the Art of Building? Cool, but art is in the eye of beholder and again check out the Parker forum if you want to find unshakable belief in "better."

And I stand by my contention that they're lovely works of art but Seasick Steve makes more compelling music than anyone on the HFC without any of that fancy stuff. These questions are fine for shooting the shit but it's like asking if French cuisine is "better" than Vietnamese. What do you like? That's the best.

Several things:

  • First, you know (of) me long enough to know that wasn't snarky. To paraphrase my late Mom, "I'll SHOW you snarly!"
  • Second, again you're applying your guitar needs and how you use a guitar to the OP's question.  It's not a question of what is the best tool for YOU. It is about Hamers compared to other higher end builders. All I was doing was trying to steer the topic back toward getting him an answer.
  • Ibanez "Roadster" (as you call it) and Parkers do not belong in this conversation unless they are examples of the lowest echelon of crap. I don't doubt that the Parker forum is full of users who think that their guitars are the best thing around. Their Messiah, Adrien Belew, proclaimed it so.
  • Ok... now I'm being snarky. No offense intended.

I think we fall into a trap of categorizing many things as "a matter of opinion," when sometimes that's simply not the case.
Sometimes one thing is better than another. I'm not talking about how one guitar does the job for you vs. another.
Sometimes it IS about the "Ooos and Aahhs" and fancy wood and intricate inlays. That stuff requires superior craftsmanship to pull off, and just because it isn't necessarily needed to make a great guitar or a guitar that plays and sounds great, it does have a value both monetarily and in the discussion of craftsmanship.

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We're in agreement on Parkers. They're like threesomes and Communism. Sounds great in theory. Doesn't work in the real world.

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5 minutes ago, polara said:

We're in agreement on Parkers. They're like threesomes and Communism. Sounds great in theory. Doesn't work in the real world.

Always wanted to give one of those a try. And I don't mean a fucking Parker - lol

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16 hours ago, cmatthes said:

Hamer made less guitars in their last 5 years than Nik made in one year.

Most interesting thing I've learned in the entire thread.  They really were on their way out long before they were shut down.

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Hamer was as boutique as anything else out there.  I have some very nice guitars and have played Hubers, PRS PS, Bartletts. There is no tangible difference in quality & playability (as long as you are okay with 14" radius) and all of them have their own sound. Biggest problem with Hamer IMO was they didn't any compelling new models. No offence to any owners of these but new guitars like Monaco and Talledega were impeccably built but where just "meh" IMO. When I saw those new models I thought to myself "Hamer is building guitars for old men". A company can't attract new customers with just Explorers and Vs. About 5 years ago I was at guitar show. There was a dealer with a new '59 burst Studio Custom.  They wanted $3500.  At that time, I could buy the exact same guitar second hand for $1200-1300. The last quote I received for a CO Hamer Vector was almost $5000.  At that time, you could buy korina vectors all day for $1800. Suhr & Anderson dominate the superstrat market.  No way they could sell new Calis when the boomerang inlay option was a $1200 upcharge.  However these days a real CO from Suhr or Anderson are $3500+. 

The company (Jol) just lacked the vision to design guitars for the 21st century guitar market. They couldn't or wouldn't respond to customers requests.  Tom Anderson used to be like that until he wisened up.  10 years ago he would flat out refuse to offer a matching headstock on a maple fretboard guitar.  It's just paint. A 24 fret model was totally out of the question. 7 strings? LOL. He watched Suhr thrive as Anderson customers moved over to Suhr.  He was close to shutting down the company until he finally understood he needed to cater to his customers instead of building Strat & Tele copies the way he wanted to build them. Now TAG has a ton of new stuff & people love it.

Now I'm rambling. Sorry. Love my Hamers! 

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Hard to imagine anything better than 0006 or the Newport I recently purchased. They are perfect.

it would be great to locate a Huber on one of my LA or D.C. Trips. Gotta see what the hubbub is.

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2 hours ago, Jakeboy said:

Hard to imagine anything better than 0006 or the Newport I recently purchased. They are perfect.

it would be great to locate a Huber on one of my LA or D.C. Trips. Gotta see what the hubbub is.

Check out Mesa Boogie Hollywood (Guitar Row on Sunset Blvd). Jimbo usually has a couple Hubers in stock. Or, if you somehow make a side trip 1,000 miles north of there, lemme know......

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On 5/2/2017 at 9:56 PM, sonic1974 said:

Do you guys think Hamers compare favourably against some of the big name boutique builders? 

 

It's funny that Hamers always felt so 'at home' that I never searched out any of the others. I tried some PRSs here or there but they were just meh.

It's a good thing, being the cheap bast*rd I am.

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On 5/4/2017 at 8:36 AM, kizanski said:

Always wanted to give one of those a try. And I don't mean a fucking Parker - lol

Communism?

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