kizanski Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 4 hours ago, tbonesullivan said: Well, how exactly are we classifying "boutique"? I don't see many people call PRS guitars "boutique" even though their prices pretty much eclipse many of the boutique makers. Personally, I classify boutique as hand made (although not a deal-breaker), small staff, usually expensive, and without an Asian leg of the company which makes less expensive versions of the more expensive models. This in my opinion disqualifies the PRS and Hamer brands. As stated above, Jol tried to make Hamer boutique, and certainly preiced them that way, but the import line subtracted from their credibility. 2 hours ago, Ted said: *Preface--I have never played a Huber, Knaggs, or Suhr. All of the Hamers I've had were/are as good, or better than all the other high end guitars I've played/owned (The vast majority of times my Hamers were better). So, what brands were you comparing them to? 30 minutes ago, cmatthes said: Hamer made less guitars in their last 5 years than Nik made in one year. Of course they did. They were being phased out, for one thing, and their resources were being used to build Ovations and Guilds. You can't get anything accomplished working on something 1 day out of the week, or whatever it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jettster Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 Have had quite a few Hamer's and they have all been pretty great guitars, only thing not to like on any of them were maybe the neck profiles or maybe the tone wasn't my thing. Having said that I'll take either one of my Suhr's over any of my Hamer's. They just have everything I like in a guitar without any sacrifices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kizanski Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 Just now, jettster said: Have had quite a few Hamer's and they have all been pretty great guitars, only thing not to like on any of them were maybe the neck profiles or maybe the tone wasn't my thing. So, your Hamers were great, except for their tone and their necks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murkat Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 My 2 cents.... From what I have witnessed thru my guitardroom encept thru life (since mid 70's). The ones who start small, eventually get too big for there britches. 70's, early 80's Hamer, there was pretty much nothing custom, "pre~ boutique". Hamer was plowing the way. A "boutique Gibson" and then some. Dean was very close behind, as well as B.C. Rich, a few other add to the mix. They were "boutique" before the word was used. Eventually all have slumbered mentioned above to the demands of corporate entitlements of coin. Got to make that #. Compare Huber to a modern Hamer catalog guitar ? , sure, Huber is "more" boutique. Compare Huber to that Hamer Firebird custom order that was recently posted? coin toss, both Boutique. Guitars come and go as well as getting your hands dirty to cnc machines. When your lean, your mean. When your fat, you loaf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polara Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 8 hours ago, kizanski said: Please see the OP. He didn't ask what function that one builder's fit & finish had. He asked how Hamer compares with other boutique builders. If you think Hamer is as good or better, you either haven't played any Hubers, don't know what you're talking about, or both.. And I used to own a Roadstar II. The inclusion of that guitar, and frankly that brand, into this discussion is laughable. And being snarky is pointless. I said Hamers are as good as anything I've picked up, including: Shishkov MotorAve Viktorian Collings Veillete-Citron And to further clarify: that rarified air, they're all good and it gets into taste. I am absolutely certain I won't find a Huber appreciably better than any of the ones above. When you hit that level of build, it's preference. There are people who will swear on their dying breath that Parkers are the best thing ever made. I don't get it. "Better" is impossible to quantify, hence my Ibanez reference. It is a "better" tool for the task at hand than many guitars. You wanna look at the Art of Building? Cool, but art is in the eye of beholder and again check out the Parker forum if you want to find unshakable belief in "better." And I stand by my contention that they're lovely works of art but Seasick Steve makes more compelling music than anyone on the HFC without any of that fancy stuff. These questions are fine for shooting the shit but it's like asking if French cuisine is "better" than Vietnamese. What do you like? That's the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jettster Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 26 minutes ago, kizanski said: So, your Hamers were great, except for their tone and their necks? Not exactly. For example, I had a set neck Chap, Centaura, TLE and Special FM, great tone, didn't care for the neck profiles on any of them. Nothing wrong with them quality wise, no different from any EBMM or Jackson guitars I've tried, just didn't care for the neck profiles. Cali's, Diablo's, I like the necks, but tone wise aren't near as versatile. My Suhr's have all of the above, outstanding neck profiles, top quality fit, finish, looks and can cover pretty much anything sonically that I need. Funny thing is, if Hamer was still producing similar guitars they would be significantly more expensive than either of these were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadgerDave Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 The three Hamer Triple Threats I've owned were absolutely in the same league as any Huber, PRS or Custom Shop Gibson I've played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic1974 Posted May 4, 2017 Author Share Posted May 4, 2017 1 hour ago, BadgerDave said: The three Hamer Triple Threats I've owned were absolutely in the same league as any Huber, PRS or Custom Shop Gibson I've played. Have always wanted to try a triple threat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 5 hours ago, kizanski said: Personally, I classify boutique as hand made (although not a deal-breaker), small staff, usually expensive, and without an Asian leg of the company which makes less expensive versions of the more expensive models. This in my opinion disqualifies the PRS and Hamer brands. As stated above, Jol tried to make Hamer boutique, and certainly preiced them that way, but the import line subtracted from their credibility. So, what brands were you comparing them to? Of course they did. They were being phased out, for one thing, and their resources were being used to build Ovations and Guilds. You can't get anything accomplished working on something 1 day out of the week, or whatever it was. Mike, I was including Fender Custom Shop, Gibson Custom Shop, Washburn Custom Shop, upper end Gretsch's, Tom Anderson, James Tyler, Kurt Wilson, Collins, high end PRSs, and I'm most likely forgetting some. From looking at my list I guess it's based more on high price tags rather than on their true boutiqueness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shark Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 Kizanski? Snarky? No..... This is boutique... As good as any guitar I've ever owned. $4,200. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic1974 Posted May 4, 2017 Author Share Posted May 4, 2017 Looks great, who's the builder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorch Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 8 hours ago, polara said: And I stand by my contention that they're lovely works of art but Seasick Steve makes more compelling music than anyone on the HFC without any of that fancy stuff. In the end the whole boutique guitars are just stringed pieces of painted and many times CITES regulated wood. It's just how much labor and marketing goes into it to have it defined as a piece of art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shark Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 7 hours ago, sonic1974 said: Looks great, who's the builder? Ian Anderson. Don't buy from him. Buy used... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polara Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 8 hours ago, The Shark said: Kizanski? Snarky? No..... This is boutique... As good as any guitar I've ever owned. $4,200. That is gorgeous. Classy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kizanski Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 13 hours ago, polara said: And being snarky is pointless. I said Hamers are as good as anything I've picked up, including: Shishkov MotorAve Viktorian Collings Veillete-Citron And to further clarify: that rarified air, they're all good and it gets into taste. I am absolutely certain I won't find a Huber appreciably better than any of the ones above. When you hit that level of build, it's preference. There are people who will swear on their dying breath that Parkers are the best thing ever made. I don't get it. "Better" is impossible to quantify, hence my Ibanez reference. It is a "better" tool for the task at hand than many guitars. You wanna look at the Art of Building? Cool, but art is in the eye of beholder and again check out the Parker forum if you want to find unshakable belief in "better." And I stand by my contention that they're lovely works of art but Seasick Steve makes more compelling music than anyone on the HFC without any of that fancy stuff. These questions are fine for shooting the shit but it's like asking if French cuisine is "better" than Vietnamese. What do you like? That's the best. Several things: First, you know (of) me long enough to know that wasn't snarky. To paraphrase my late Mom, "I'll SHOW you snarly!" Second, again you're applying your guitar needs and how you use a guitar to the OP's question. It's not a question of what is the best tool for YOU. It is about Hamers compared to other higher end builders. All I was doing was trying to steer the topic back toward getting him an answer. Ibanez "Roadster" (as you call it) and Parkers do not belong in this conversation unless they are examples of the lowest echelon of crap. I don't doubt that the Parker forum is full of users who think that their guitars are the best thing around. Their Messiah, Adrien Belew, proclaimed it so. Ok... now I'm being snarky. No offense intended. I think we fall into a trap of categorizing many things as "a matter of opinion," when sometimes that's simply not the case. Sometimes one thing is better than another. I'm not talking about how one guitar does the job for you vs. another. Sometimes it IS about the "Ooos and Aahhs" and fancy wood and intricate inlays. That stuff requires superior craftsmanship to pull off, and just because it isn't necessarily needed to make a great guitar or a guitar that plays and sounds great, it does have a value both monetarily and in the discussion of craftsmanship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polara Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 We're in agreement on Parkers. They're like threesomes and Communism. Sounds great in theory. Doesn't work in the real world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kizanski Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 5 minutes ago, polara said: We're in agreement on Parkers. They're like threesomes and Communism. Sounds great in theory. Doesn't work in the real world. Always wanted to give one of those a try. And I don't mean a fucking Parker - lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velorush Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 16 hours ago, cmatthes said: Hamer made less guitars in their last 5 years than Nik made in one year. Most interesting thing I've learned in the entire thread. They really were on their way out long before they were shut down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devnor Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 Hamer was as boutique as anything else out there. I have some very nice guitars and have played Hubers, PRS PS, Bartletts. There is no tangible difference in quality & playability (as long as you are okay with 14" radius) and all of them have their own sound. Biggest problem with Hamer IMO was they didn't any compelling new models. No offence to any owners of these but new guitars like Monaco and Talledega were impeccably built but where just "meh" IMO. When I saw those new models I thought to myself "Hamer is building guitars for old men". A company can't attract new customers with just Explorers and Vs. About 5 years ago I was at guitar show. There was a dealer with a new '59 burst Studio Custom. They wanted $3500. At that time, I could buy the exact same guitar second hand for $1200-1300. The last quote I received for a CO Hamer Vector was almost $5000. At that time, you could buy korina vectors all day for $1800. Suhr & Anderson dominate the superstrat market. No way they could sell new Calis when the boomerang inlay option was a $1200 upcharge. However these days a real CO from Suhr or Anderson are $3500+. The company (Jol) just lacked the vision to design guitars for the 21st century guitar market. They couldn't or wouldn't respond to customers requests. Tom Anderson used to be like that until he wisened up. 10 years ago he would flat out refuse to offer a matching headstock on a maple fretboard guitar. It's just paint. A 24 fret model was totally out of the question. 7 strings? LOL. He watched Suhr thrive as Anderson customers moved over to Suhr. He was close to shutting down the company until he finally understood he needed to cater to his customers instead of building Strat & Tele copies the way he wanted to build them. Now TAG has a ton of new stuff & people love it. Now I'm rambling. Sorry. Love my Hamers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studio Custom Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 5 hours ago, polara said: We're in agreement on Parkers. They're like threesomes and Communism. Sounds great in theory. Doesn't work in the real world. Nyet, comrade, tell us about your exploits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakeboy Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 I have never even seen a Huber, Knaggs, Suhr, or Collins's live and in person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakeboy Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Hard to imagine anything better than 0006 or the Newport I recently purchased. They are perfect. it would be great to locate a Huber on one of my LA or D.C. Trips. Gotta see what the hubbub is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
django49 Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 2 hours ago, Jakeboy said: Hard to imagine anything better than 0006 or the Newport I recently purchased. They are perfect. it would be great to locate a Huber on one of my LA or D.C. Trips. Gotta see what the hubbub is. Check out Mesa Boogie Hollywood (Guitar Row on Sunset Blvd). Jimbo usually has a couple Hubers in stock. Or, if you somehow make a side trip 1,000 miles north of there, lemme know...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamerhead Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 On 5/2/2017 at 9:56 PM, sonic1974 said: Do you guys think Hamers compare favourably against some of the big name boutique builders? It's funny that Hamers always felt so 'at home' that I never searched out any of the others. I tried some PRSs here or there but they were just meh. It's a good thing, being the cheap bast*rd I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakeboy Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 On 5/4/2017 at 8:36 AM, kizanski said: Always wanted to give one of those a try. And I don't mean a fucking Parker - lol Communism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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