Steve Haynie Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 A knowledgeable music store owner a few miles down the road used to sell USA Hamers in the late 90's and early 2000's. He closed his store a few years back, and opened a new one in the last couple of years. Some of the lines he used to carry, he picked up again. "Hamer" contacted him. The store owner was asked if he would stock six of the new Hamers, but being skeptical he agreed to order three just to see what they would be like. He was happily surprised by what came in. When I drove down today to check out the new Hamers I was impressed, too. Two Archtops and a Monaco came in, but one of the Archtops with a trem was already laid away. There was no need to try out all three. The two on the wall were enough. These new Hamers look good and play good. Nothing was wrong with them. The Archtop that I tried out had a neck that was a nice medium thickness. No frets had buzzes.Since there were other people in the store who might want to spend money, I never plugged into an amp. The store owner told me that he and the employee who does set ups were both impressed by the pickups because they had expected lower quality electronics. The new Hamers are made in Indonesia, and they are better than some of the nicer Chinese made guitars. On this message board we prefer Hamer USA, but we are always complimentary when someone asks about the Hamer XT Series guitars they have bought. We have always been nice about any Hamer import except the Slammer by Hamer guitars. As people discover these recent Indonesian imports we will be asked about them. Based on what I saw today, the 2017 Hamer imports are as good or better than any other imports. Whatever crap JAM Industries had on display at the winter NAMM show has been replaced with something better. Like it or not, these guitars will impress people enough to look into what else Hamer has done. Now for the scary part of today's conversation at the music store... The sales rep who got the store to take on the Indonesian Hamers asked the owner if he would ever consider stocking $4000 USA made Hamers. That is where the store owner said whoa. Knowing his customers, he told the sales rep that without any direct connection to Jol Dantzig or any of the old Hamer crew people who would buy such an expensive guitar are going to know that the guitar is not really a Hamer. He let his opinion be known that he thought trying to sell a new Hamer USA line would be a bad idea. For the rep to ask that question, someone at JAM has to be planning a marketing strategy to sell something called a Hamer USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrjamiam Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 Interesting. Thanks for the review. Agreed about the imports - they can be the "gateway drug" for many. That's how I got hooked. Glad to hear that things have apparently looked up since the first dismal indications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biz Prof Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 Thanks for the review, Steve. If these imports provide high value:price, stoke interest in the history of the original Hamer USA brand and, perhaps, generate additional lust for Arlington Heights or New Hartford builds found in private collections or for trade in the open market, I will consider it a win-win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamerhead Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 3 hours ago, Steve Haynie said: He let his opinion be known that he thought trying to sell a new Hamer USA line would be a bad idea. I agree with this - I think it's AFU, Steve. With the soul of the company removed, it's not Hamer. Mike Shishkov is carrying it forward in the most proper manner. Mike is - without question - now the soul of what was once Hamer. What he's doing should embarrass anyone who considers using the name. Anything else is a money grab. If FMIC wants to revive the name they need the people who made it great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kizanski Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 3 hours ago, Steve Haynie said: The sales rep who got the store to take on the Indonesian Hamers asked the owner if he would ever consider stocking $4000 USA made Hamers. What could possible go wrong here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortious Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 55 minutes ago, hamerhead said: If FMIC wants to revive the name they need the people who made it great. FMIC doesn't own it anymore. JAM Industries does. They bought the Kaman operation, including the Hamer brand name, from FMIC. JAM: http://jamindustries.com/markets/musical-instruments/kmc-music/ And when you look up the info for hamerguitars.com, it shows as being controlled by Kaman: Quote Domain Name: hamerguitars.com Registrant Name: Scott LaChapelle Registrant Organization: Kaman Music Corporation Registrant Street: 20 Old Windsor Rd Registrant City: Bloomfield Registrant State/Province: CT Registrant Postal Code: 06002 Registrant Phone: +1.8605098888 Registrant Email: [email protected] I don't see 'new' Hamer USA guitars at $4k as a viable operation. If they do, well, they're free to try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamerhead Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Tortious said: FMIC doesn't own it anymore. JAM Industries does. Whatever - slapping the 'Hamer' name on it doesn't change anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veatch Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 27 minutes ago, hamerhead said: Whatever - slapping the 'Hamer' name on it doesn't change anything. Is that what they're calling it these days? What happened to "choking the chicken?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbonesullivan Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 There are some really nice guitars coming out of Indonesia these days. Also some great youtube guitar videos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff R Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 7 hours ago, tbonesullivan said: There are some really nice guitars coming out of Indonesia these days. Also some great youtube guitar videos. I will echoplex this loudly. Recent MII G&L Tributes, recent MII Ibanez blue floral Jem reissue, and a MII Jackson Monarkch or whatever they call it, all have recently crossed the bench -- all shockingly incredible guitars. Eager for an MII Hamer to show up here now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce919 Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 I plugged one of the Black archtop (Studio) models in foe a few min. Saturday at a local dealer. It had a nice chunky neck, inlayed peal Hamer logo (most likely Mother of Toilet-seat), typical over glazed finish as most Asian guitars. nut was plastic and looked like it had been placed with all the accuracy of a drunken storm trooper. The neck itself was finished well no rough edges and the frets were nice. Pickups are typical Asian ugh. If I were starting out as a kid it would be an Ok first guitar, but at $799 !!! , there are many other choices at that price point. Pass!! As the Hamer obsessed nut we all are here, we have a bar set high on expectations, these guitars will never been what was Hamer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveL Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 I'm just thinkin with the amount of effort we're seeing on the imports... (search on Hamer special on reverb etc and about 10 of them come up) that I think a USA reincarnation of Hamer is coming somewhere down the line... I know these guys aren't the assholes who trashed the fixtures, tooling etc, in the final days of New Hartford but I have a hard time reconciling that vision with ever opening up my wallet again for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studio Custom Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 The $4,000 market is crowded and the buyers getting to an age where they are downsizing. The soul issue is BS to me. What connection does any Fender after 1964 have to Leo? Orville died 34 years before the Les Paul was invented, is that really an issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disturber Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 Do the research, bring back anyone who wants to be on board from the old team, build them with care and love. Then I think there will be interest. Look at Rickenbacker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmatthes Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 Not happening. Like it or not, the USA Hamers were built differently from the competition in many ways. There are a number of proprietary methods that won't be reproduced, and any new venture is going to be required to turn a significant return on any investment. Frankly, I don't see that happening in the future. This marketplace is fairly saturated, and the people who were into/interested in Hamers before can still get the real deal very affordably. The old Hamer crew from AH and NH have moved on, and I don't see them moving somewhere to justify slapping a logo on a very different line. Saying the imports are good for an $800 import means nothing - there are tons of similar quality instruments at that price point. Without any major endorsers to rekindle interest, this whole thing is dead in the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studio Custom Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 15 minutes ago, cmatthes said: Not happening. Like it or not, the USA Hamers were built differently from the competition in many ways. There are a number of proprietary methods that won't be reproduced, and any new venture is going to be required to turn a significant return on any investment. Frankly, I don't see that happening in the future. This marketplace is fairly saturated, and the people who were into/interested in Hamers before can still get the real deal very affordably. The old Hamer crew from AH and NH have moved on, and I don't see them moving somewhere to justify slapping a logo on a very different line. Saying the imports are good for an $800 import means nothing - there are tons of similar quality instruments at that price point. Without any major endorsers to rekindle interest, this whole thing is dead in the water. Never say never. If the new company was hot to trot they, could offer Mike $150,000/year to be President and a % of each guitar produced, I bet he'd consider it. I'm sure others could be had cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kizanski Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 55 minutes ago, Studio Custom said: Orville died 34 years before the Les Paul was invented, is that really an issue? But Les Paul was alive for the majority of the Les Paul Model's existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biz Prof Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 1 minute ago, cmatthes said: Not happening. Like it or not, the USA Hamers were built differently from the competition in many ways. There are a number of proprietary methods that won't be reproduced, and any new venture is going to be required to turn a significant return on any investment. Frankly, I don't see that happening in the future. This marketplace is fairly saturated, and the people who were into/interested in Hamers before can still get the real deal very affordably. The old Hamer crew from AH and NH have moved on, and I don't see them moving somewhere to justify slapping a logo on a very different line. Saying the imports are good for an $800 import means nothing - there are tons of similar quality instruments at that price point. Without any major endorsers to rekindle interest, this whole thing is dead in the water. Agree with this 100%. It would be foolish to attempt to enter the higher-end USA market. IMHO, the $2,500-$5,000 price point is where the full-boogie '90s era Arlington Heights operation would find itself in 2018. It didn't work the first time for several reasons, not the least of which was clumsy marketing/promotion. The import line stands a much better chance of surviving IF the quality : price ratio remains strong, the dealer network grows, AND the brand picks up a few key endorsers. It would be difficult to make this work without any sort of USA presence to affect artist builds (recall that Kramer used Tom Anderson this way, as did Fender with Wayne Charvel in the '70s), so they'd really need a U.S.-based custom shop to ghost build endorser instruments. Perhaps Washburn's facility could do those, but it would still be an uphill climb to keep the overall brand viable. As stated by several others, the very idea that we could see a legitimate rebirth of Hamer USA that even remotely approximated the New Hartford era is folly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studio Custom Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 1 minute ago, kizanski said: But Les Paul was alive for the majority of the Les Paul Model's existence. So only buy ones from those years? Obviously Les had nothing to do with the manufacturing aspect of the guitar after the design aspect was completed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biz Prof Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 1 minute ago, Studio Custom said: So only buy ones from those years? Obviously Les had nothing to do with the manufacturing aspect of the guitar after the design aspect was completed. This is a valid point. Plus, Les' input reached its apex in the early '70s with this...which I would venture encouraged prospective buyers to look toward Dean or Hamer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kizanski Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 12 minutes ago, Studio Custom said: Obviously Les had nothing to do with the manufacturing aspect of the guitar after the design aspect was completed. I don't know how obvious that is. Wasn't he always making changes and adding input? If memory serves, he asked that his name be taken off of the '61 Les Paul (the SG design) because he hated it. They refused and he was contractually obligated to play it live, but he did have input. To your point, though, not to the level a Leo Fender would have, pre-CBS, but to say he had "nothing to do with maufacturing" isn't fair, either. As this pertains to Hamer (whatever that might look like going forward), their manufacturing EVERYTHING is gone. They'd be starting completely from scratch. This is different that Fender or Gibson making a tweak here and there every 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Haynie Posted July 24, 2017 Author Share Posted July 24, 2017 Les Paul had his name taken off the Les Paul model guitars because he was going through a divorce and did not want Mary Ford to be able to get a part of the endorsement money. Most Les Paul players over the years have had no idea there was ever a person named Les Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSII x 2 Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 2 hours ago, bruce919 said: I plugged one of the Black archtop (Studio) models in foe a few min. Saturday at a local dealer. It had a nice chunky neck, inlayed peal Hamer logo (most likely Mother of Toilet-seat), typical over glazed finish as most Asian guitars. nut was plastic and looked like it had been placed with all the accuracy of a drunken storm trooper. The neck itself was finished well no rough edges and the frets were nice. Pickups are typical Asian ugh. If I were starting out as a kid it would be an Ok first guitar, but at $799 !!! , there are many other choices at that price point. Pass!! As the Hamer obsessed nut we all are here, we have a bar set high on expectations, these guitars will never been what was Hamer. Well, considering that I never paid more than $700 for a brand-new US-built Hamer, I'd have to agree with ya! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottcald Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 I think if they're truly interested in selling USA Hamers, they need to get some folks to build some prototypes and cart them around to dealers and say "This is what we're looking to sell. You interested?" They need to show a product they want people to buy for $4k, not just ask if they'll buy one. And I'd hazard to guess they'd be made in the Washburn US facility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biz Prof Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 5 minutes ago, Steve Haynie said: Most Les Paul players over the years have had no idea there was ever a person named Les Paul. Not sure we can say most didn't know anything of Mr. Polsfuss, but certainly, a good share of Lester players were not likely knowledgeable of the man's history. Perhaps he is the guitar analog to this guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Taylor_(salesman) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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