Jump to content
Hamer Fan Club Message Center

Gibson Skipping NAMM 2018


Recommended Posts

This is interesting, to say the least. Apparently they are focusing on the Consumer Electronics show instead?

http://www.musicradar.com/news/namm-2018-gibson-no-show-confirmed

Fender will be there and occupying 13,000 square feet.

NAMM Floor plan: https://floorplan.namm.org/WN18/exfx.html?zoomto=6602&units=F&exhList=min#floorplan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, The Shark said:

Honestly, I could care less...

Their new "Double Cut" looks like somebody took five minutes and designed a guitar. 

Wait...they went back and spent another 3 minutes on that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Assuming they are going to be replaced by Native Intruments, offering original 60s LP and SG Kontakt instruments for $149 each. Vintage V and Explorer instruments are announced for the next Christmas sale weekend. Hollows in the making for next year. Stay tuned...

All NKS-ready of course.

60% discount for the bundle!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gibson put a lot of emphasis on mail order and cut the number of dealers at the end of the 90's.  There was a point at which Gibson was exporting a great amount of its products.  It might be possible the accountants figured out the bulk of sales are being made through corporate offices rather than a musical instrument trade show. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To expand on Steve's observation ... I know from my past career that national and international trade show participation is very, very expensive. I know from personal experience how much it cost to have a booth presence at a national show held at the Anaheim convention center. Just securing 10K+ square feet of floor space - the real estate itself - in any convention's marketplace is incredibly costly. It was nothing for my last employer and our competition to dole out $100K-plus each just to create the effective booth presence itself, the displays, the woo factor, at national conventions in LA, Chicago, Miami, etc. Add in salaries, OT and travel expenses of the people manning the booth, shipping/transport costs to get your products in the actual booth, any sponsorships/partnerships you buy to increase your visibility ... I could easily see a musical instrument manufacturing granddaddy like Fender or a Gibson spending a quarter- to a half-million dollars when it's all said and done to have what they and their peers/competitors would deem an effective NAMM presence.

Would I invest $250-500K to market a company that's been around for a century and already has name recognition and established branding as a perceived leader in the market? Would I advertise, market, promote and sell core product/designs have remained virtually unchanged for decades? Would I spend big money to promote new products that quarterly and annual sales reports likely show time and time again are poorly received at best by the market compared to core product? Or (here's a big one), spend big money to retain existing dealers and recruit new ones? We read each quarter about their biggest brick-and-mortar existing dealer's financial problems and how they're hanging on by a thread; we read about the unrealistic buy-in they present to prospective new dealers that no mom-and-pop will cough up, let alone sustain; and we read about their desire to shift more of their business to mail-order/online/catalog whatever.

This one's summarized easily ... it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever for their business model and where their business model is going (especially if it's into bankruptcy haha) for them to be at NAMM.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gibson indeed turned there back on music stores, made it pretty much impossible for them to purchased stock even after they let them back in the door. My local Mom and Pop Shop, shifted to G&L, PRS, Ibanez, and Music Man about 10 years ago or so. I remember when Gibson made them by X amount of LP in an order and they has 20 at least that they ended up trading to other stores so they could diversify inventory. It is a buyers Market and better like what you have because the market is going to get rougher than it is now. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, bubs_42 said:

Gibson indeed turned there back on music stores, made it pretty much impossible for them to purchased stock even after they let them back in the door. My local Mom and Pop Shop, shifted to G&L, PRS, Ibanez, and Music Man about 10 years ago or so. I remember when Gibson made them by X amount of LP in an order and they has 20 at least that they ended up trading to other stores so they could diversify inventory. It is a buyers Market and better like what you have because the market is going to get rougher than it is now. 

Right, and Gibby makes ya buy stuff like mandolins and banjos too, even if you're a shop that

caters to heavy rockers...

 

I understand that a lot of manufacturers have been skipping NAMM the past few years?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm guessing that's why they put out their 2018 line on their site a while back, when in the past it took months for them to update with current models.   I know nothing about trade shows as far as impact etc, but I'd think they would attract more attention if they had a small booth where they released one or two really awesome models at a competitive price and high quality.  They seem to be totally tone deaf on the QC complaints.  

What are people's thoughts on where Gibson will go?  Total sale?  Shift production offshore?  Completely fold?  Will Henry admit his problems or just keep cost cutting?  

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, SSII x 2 said:

Right, and Gibby makes ya buy stuff like mandolins and banjos too, even if you're a shop that

caters to heavy rockers...

Back in the 90's Gibson had different tiers for dealerships.  It started with Epiphone, then the Gibson electrics.  I cannot remember if the acoustics were parallel to the electrics, or if they were another tier.  To get to the bluegrass instruments a store had to already stock the other stuff in the Gibson line. 

Banjos have disappeared from Gibson's web site over the past few years.  Mandolins are still there, but they are incredibly expensive.  At those prices one is more likely to shop around some of the other mandolin makers' offerings just to make sure they get the most bang for the buck. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would assume that the costs of going to the Consumer Electronics Show are similar to NAMM. However, I don't really see how that would be more effective use of of their money. Are they trying to market other uses for their auto tuning and other technology? I don't really see how going there and not to NAMM makes sense.

Of course, Carvin/Kiesel went to NAMM for years, even though they are almost entirely direct to consumer. As NAMM is an industry-only show, it really didn't make sense for them. It wasn't like they were going to pull in a bunch of dealer orders at the show.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, tbonesullivan said:

I would assume that the costs of going to the Consumer Electronics Show are similar to NAMM. However, I don't really see how that would be more effective use of of their money. Are they trying to market other uses for their auto tuning and other technology? I don't really see how going there and not to NAMM makes sense.

Of course, Carvin/Kiesel went to NAMM for years, even though they are almost entirely direct to consumer. As NAMM is an industry-only show, it really didn't make sense for them. It wasn't like they were going to pull in a bunch of dealer orders at the show.

Kiesel was at the summer NAMM this past year (2017).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gibson has also been heavily promoting its direct, made-to-order model over the last year.  If you want a Pink Metalflake over a quilt top R9, have at it!  Apparently, they'll do almost anything...except use ebony fingerboards. :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, tbonesullivan said:

I would assume that the costs of going to the Consumer Electronics Show are similar to NAMM. However, I don't really see how that would be more effective use of of their money. Are they trying to market other uses for their auto tuning and other technology? I don't really see how going there and not to NAMM makes sense.

Perhaps they know better than to cart out an inferior product to a bunch of wannabe and career musicians who will also be sampling the wares of builders who's work is light years past Gibson's.
A few Les Pauls hanging in a booth surrounded by consumer electronics might actually lend them an air of novelty otherwise lost at NAMM.

Or they just don't have a fucking clue what they're doing anymore.

That could also be true.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Gibson displays at the NAMM shows I attended were pretty lavish affairs - they took up a top floor ballroom that was rivaled only by what Fender occupied, and they had a ton of stuff and clearly spent major coin in the design/layout.  They also promoted heavily at the show, with clinics, endorser autograph sessions and off-site concert events.  It wouldn't surprise me if they dropped @upper 6-low 7 figures at a show, all up back then.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh wait. I guess that lifestyle part might be spot on. They now own Philips, Onkyo, Philips Fidelio, GoGear and are apparently putting a lot into "Gibson Innovations" so they can make knockoff audio gear.

http://www.gibsoninnovations.com/en/home

Leave it to Henry J to say "screw the guitars". If they REALLY focused on making great guitars and instruments, they probably would be in a lot better financial situation. Instead they continue to waste money on things they are even more mediocre at.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I remember a period of time (sometime back in the early 2000s I think, it definitely happened but please correct me about the date if I'm wrong about that) where some dealers like DGS had ended their dealership agreements with Gibson, apparently due to Gibson's practices of foisting unwanted/unneeded Gibson product on dealerships, among other things.  Then, after a few years, Gibson relented, and most dealers came back, including DGS.  DGS apparently ended their dealership agreement with Gibson AGAIN about a year or two ago. I dunno if any other dealers followed suit and also ended their dealership agreements recently, does anybody here know one way or the other?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, crunchee said:

I remember a period of time (sometime back in the early 2000s I think, it definitely happened but please correct me about the date if I'm wrong about that) where some dealers like DGS had ended their dealership agreements with Gibson, apparently due to Gibson's practices of foisting unwanted/unneeded Gibson product on dealerships, among other things.  Then, after a few years, Gibson relented, and most dealers came back, including DGS.  DGS apparently ended their dealership agreement with Gibson AGAIN about a year or two ago. I dunno if any other dealers followed suit and also ended their dealership agreements recently, does anybody here know one way or the other?

I think the robot tuner fiasco was the last straw for a lot of those dealers.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, cmatthes said:

Gibson has also been heavily promoting its direct, made-to-order model over the last year.  If you want a Pink Metalflake over a quilt top R9, have at it!  Apparently, they'll do almost anything...except use ebony fingerboards. :D

There's a direct, made-to-order model? How do I find out more about this? (Not because I want one, but because I'm a nerd and need to know :)) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, kizanski said:

I think the robot tuner fiasco was the last straw for a lot of those dealers.  

Yeah, and Sam Ash purchased all of those a cheap prices, and blew them out. I remember when Gibson basically said that to carry Gibson, you needed to have something like $500,000 of merchandise on hand at every store, and/or a certain percentage of total floor space devoted to them. I remember Sam Ash at that time going "NOPE", and AMS was also not happy.

I don't know if Fender has ever tried any of that crap.

Is Gibson really thinking about doing direct to customer? With their level of QC that would pretty much be suicide, IMHO.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Sugartune said:

There's a direct, made-to-order model? How do I find out more about this? (Not because I want one, but because I'm a nerd and need to know :)) 

I misspoke - it's not 100% direct (yet), although that is a direction they're apparently exploring. For now, you still have to order through a dealer, but you can do the legwork/specs yourself, for the most part (within a menu of options +)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, cmatthes said:

I misspoke - it's not 100% direct (yet), although that is a direction they're apparently exploring. For now, you still have to order through a dealer, but you can do the legwork/specs yourself, for the most part (within a menu of options +)

I think they really only need like a couple models/options - traditional/historic and souped up.  Get the high price point and the mid price point.  Let Epi do the low price point.  Well made, they'd really do something.  Put the "innovations" under a different brand.  But, they're not asking me.  ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gibson dealers had to take certain models when making their annual buy-ins.  No one could just order Les Pauls and leave it at that.  Some people like Nighthawks, but some do not.  Dealers had to take them if they wanted to sell Gibson electrics.  One has to wonder if dealers were forced to take those reversed Flying V's that looked like lawn darts. 

When the first big purge of music stores took place it was because Gibson upped the annual buy-in to $100,000.  That was 20 years ago.  For a store that stocked no more than $150,000 for all products (guitars, PA, keyboards, band, recording) that was a deal killer. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Steve Haynie said:

Gibson dealers had to take certain models when making their annual buy-ins.  No one could just order Les Pauls and leave it at that.  Some people like Nighthawks, but some do not.  Dealers had to take them if they wanted to sell Gibson electrics.  One has to wonder if dealers were forced to take those reversed Flying V's that looked like lawn darts. 

When the first big purge of music stores took place it was because Gibson upped the annual buy-in to $100,000.  That was 20 years ago.  For a store that stocked no more than $150,000 for all products (guitars, PA, keyboards, band, recording) that was a deal killer. 

THAT'S what I thought I remembered!  I didn't realize it was that long ago.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...