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MTM105

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25 minutes ago, Ed Rechts said:

Did you ever go  to Fatdog's guitar/bicycle shop, downtown?

He had a penchant for used Hamer's at the established HFC price. 

Yep. Like Mr. Garrison, he also had a penchant for fukkin people to death 

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27 minutes ago, gtrdaddy said:

If one is just focused on guitar playing, it isn't what it was about. The whole enchilada must be taken in to get it, and that isn’t necessarily for everyone. Phil’s bass playing, the percussion and keys, the lyrics, Bob Weir’s unique and excellent rhythm playing, and Jerry’s ten minute mixolydian indulgences create the moment. It’s American folk, meets rock, meets bluegrass, meets jazz and poetry. It’s definitely not for everyone.

I guess you're right, it's definitely not for me.

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10 hours ago, django49 said:

An old line.......

"What did the Dead fanatic say when he ran out of drugs?"

"Man, this music SUCKS!"

GD wall.jpeg

                                                               You can thank Owsley Stanley III for that rig...................brewmaster of all LSD makers in the 60s[And Sound Engineer for "THE DEAD"]...............you would think this overkill would make ANY band sound great..................................it DIDN'T! So what has the Grateful Dead need to be grateful for?................ they made a lot of money making terrible  music [IMHO and I must be in the minority as they DID make a lot of money so somebody bought it.].............. ME.............I can't stand any of it!

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I think Meyer Sound (Berkeley) did the rig for the '87 show I attended. I must say, out of the 100's of (arena/stadium/club/theater/amphitheater/civic center/kegger) shows I've been to, the Dead/Dylan was *THE BEST* sounding show ever. It wasn't over-blitzed volume, but more like a nicely amplified, hi-fi stereo system. My friends and I were sitting on the baseball field, 40ft away from the mains and were having conversations at normal talking volumes. All the while, hearing every wind chime, rack-tom or Alvarez acoustic clearly, perfectly. Knowing now what I didn't know then about live concert sound, it was amazing. 

Meyer (and Ultrasound) and the Dead did more for the evolution and technology of live music sound production than any other band. Sure, I'll take my tongue-in-cheek shots at their whole hippy/BS thing, but live music production would not be where it is today without the Dead and their tech people.

When I saw AC/DC at PacBell Park a coupla years ago, they had the HUGEST line-array system I've ever seen. 2 guitars, bass, drums, vocals...nowhere near the number of mic inputs the Dead used 30yrs earlier. It was loud. Stupidly loud for the speaker coverage across the stadium. The mix was good, but I felt it would have sounded better at a reasonable volume, without bludgeoning the crowd into submission. That's where the visceral impact of sheer volume (i.e.: deaf soundboard mixers) and the machismo of "ARENA rock" goes full-retard...

I guess the take-away is that the Dead, being a yearly touring band, really did their due diligence to present a great band mix, and not bulldoze the crowd with merciless db levels. For all my snark at them and their hippy-dippy acolytes, I respect the fact that they give a shit about the FOH.

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WARNING - I have nasty insomnia this morning, so I’ve typed 10x more than anyone’s going to want to read about why I love the Grateful Dead.

Bail out now while you still can!!!

————————————————————————

One interesting thing about the Grateful Dead, at least in my experience, is that they turned me on to a lot of music I would have otherwise ignored.

Just like being into Zeppelin turned me on to a lot of classic blues, the Dead exposed me to a lot of classic country. And I think that’s a big influence in their music that a lot of people don’t catch. 

For example, earlier in this thread, I linked to the Dead playing “The Race Is On.” That was a big hit by George Jones.

I love “Mama Tried,” so the Dead turned me on to Merle Haggard. 

The Dead did several versions of “Big River,” so I bought some Johnny Cash.

Of course, they are also well known for playing Marty Robbins’ “El Paso,” but for some reason I never liked that one very much.

Without the Dead, I might just regard a lot of good music as “that country shit” and never give it a listen. But nobody thinks of George Jones, Merle Haggard, and Johnny Cash as related to the Grateful Dead at all.

People tend to focus on Jerry, but Bob Weir is a fantastic guitarist who uses a lot of interesting chord voicings and Phil’s bass playing is totally unique. (Great example would be the version of “Help On The Way” that I linked earlier.)

But I’ll also admit, the Dead had some rough nights. There are some recordings that truly make me cringe, and that’s before I even start on Donna’s vocals. You guys wanna give Deadheads a hard time? THAT is the biggest Achilles Heel of all. The Dead never had strong vocals, but damn, sometimes Donna just pulls you out of the moment like a stick in the eye.

Still, even at their worst, the Dead are pretty fascinating. Their fans allowed them to take chances and have bad nights.

Look at today’s most popular live acts. Much of it is pre-recorded so artists can focus on vocals (which may also be pre-recorded) and dance routines. It’s predictable, repeatable, and what you see in Dallas is exactly the same as what you see in Madrid. And if anything goes wrong, it goes viral.

Deadheads accepted a bad night as the price you pay for the nights that were amazing. I can’t think of any other fan base that would say “Yeah, last night sucked. Can’t wait for tonight’s show!” That’s pretty cool.

Deadheads not only have favorite songs, but favorite versions of favorite songs - and they can be quite different.

Deadheads have favorite time periods. I tend to go for ‘77, but my old college roommate is a ‘72 guy. (And I’ve gotta admit, when they released the entire Europe ‘72 tour a few years back, I was really tempted. It’s selling for insane money now.) I tend to dislike the mid-80s after “In The Dark” went up the charts. 

And lastly, I think the documentary “Long Strange Trip” that’s on Amazon Prime is excellent. Even people who hate the Dead might find it fascinating, just because there are so many stories to tell. And they pulled some “best of the best” stuff... I’m tempted to get the soundtrack just to have those recording all in one place.

Just be forewarned, that last hour is some dark, sad stuff. Jerry’s wife talking about their last conversation was pure tragedy.

P.S. The Grateful Dead always had the best T-shirts. Iron Maiden is a close second (how can you not love Eddie???) but the Dead win.

P.P.S. Damn I wish I was asleep. 

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I have the utmost respect for what the Dead accomplished, and I appreciate their contributions to the advancement of live concert sound. I admire their ability to attract legions of loyal fans.

"Truckin'" is kind of fun a song to play.

I've tried to listen to them. Really tried.

I just can't do it. It's torturous.

 

In the late 80s to early 90s I worked for a record store chain (Music Plus, for those who remember), and each store had a Ticketmaster outlet. The crowd that would show up the day Grateful Dead tickets went on sale...that was interesting. It was like they arrived in a time machine directly from Woodstock.

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7 hours ago, RobB said:

When I saw AC/DC at PacBell Park a coupla years ago, they had the HUGEST line-array system I've ever seen. 2 guitars, bass, drums, vocals...nowhere near the number of mic inputs the Dead used 30yrs earlier. It was loud. Stupidly loud for the speaker coverage across the stadium. The mix was good, but I felt it would have sounded better at a reasonable volume, without bludgeoning the crowd into submission. That's where the visceral impact of sheer volume (i.e.: deaf soundboard mixers) and the machismo of "ARENA rock" goes full-retard...

Scary thing there is AC/DC routinely takes out PA that they operate at only 50% of what it will actually do, you know, just in case eye-bleeding, sterility-inducing loud isn't quite loud enough.  I have a buddy in that world who has friends on AC/DCs crew, and he was saying you could easily get the same volume they generally use with half as much power as they take out.  

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Right now I'm studying a business Ethics class and it points out that there is, in fact, evil in society.  There is no better term for it.

The entire time I've seen and witnessed Deadheads in action, I've surmised evil influences.  Their leader and co-founder succumbed to heroin addiction.

On film, Bob Weir visited his childhood home.  He wasn't aware it had been knocked down years earlier.

I never found the women to be attractive.  At all.  Look at Ann Coulter.

Only two or three of their songs could be attributed to musical talent.

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29 minutes ago, MTM105 said:

Right now I'm studying a business Ethics class and it points out that there is, in fact, evil in society.  There is no better term for it.

The entire time I've seen and witnessed Deadheads in action, I've surmised evil influences.  Their leader and co-founder succumbed to heroin addiction.

On film, Bob Weir visited his childhood home.  He wasn't aware it had been knocked down years earlier.

I never found the women to be attractive.  At all.  Look at Ann Coulter.

Only two or three of their songs could be attributed to musical talent.

With all due respect, this is an entertaining line of reasoning.

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35 minutes ago, ptm1diver said:

Must be and ultra lib snowflake.  This is utter BS.  I assume you love thrash metal, death metal, rap, hip hop, etc. which are not musical forms.  

I usually don't go off like this, but your post is crap.

I can't stand the Grateful Dead, but even I wouldn't call it not music just because I don't like it.  I find 90% of it to be the same mindless, uninspiring noodling that I'm willing to bet you find death and thrash metal to be.  I still wouldn't call it not music or even bad.  I'm just not the demo. And that's OK - I'm not enough of a narcissist to assume that I have to approve something for it to be considered music.  I bet you aren't either, actually. I've even covered GD tunes in various bands, and did so with a smile as it was my opportunity to try to add something to their music that I always found missing. 

I love thrash and death metal. I would love to hear your definition of music. :P  I imagine it is probably similar to mine, and you were just posting whilst pissed off. 

In general, I can't blame you for getting your hackles up, but c'mon man.  Don't strafe everyone else's taste here.  I'd much rather tackle Grateful Dead tunes than Opeth or Testament despite much preferring to listen to Opeth or Testament because they are frankly much harder to play.  It seems pretty musical to me. 

And on a side note, metal crowds tend to be quite libertarian, so, unless you were using liberal in the European since, i.e. egalitarianism in the spirit of Hume and Locke, your generalization there was quite off the mark.  
 

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47 minutes ago, MTM105 said:

Right now I'm studying a business Ethics class and it points out that there is, in fact, evil in society.  There is no better term for it.

The entire time I've seen and witnessed Deadheads in action, I've surmised evil influences.  Their leader and co-founder succumbed to heroin addiction.

On film, Bob Weir visited his childhood home.  He wasn't aware it had been knocked down years earlier.

I never found the women to be attractive.  At all.  Look at Ann Coulter.

Only two or three of their songs could be attributed to musical talent.

No, YOU look at Ann Coulter!!!

But nice work dragging her into a Dead thread! I applaud your creativity. After all the Dead slams I’ve heard over the decades, you found a new angle. Their female fans look like Ann Coulter...

You done good, young troll. Now get on back to class before you’re tardy!

 

 

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1 hour ago, Biz Prof said:

My reasoning, as well. That's exactly why a diverse array of genres emerge and persist.

And thank goodness for that because you never know where your ear may go.  

I hated country music when I was a kid but later got so into Waylon Jennings that I got a portrait tattoo of him on my shoulder. 

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5 hours ago, gtrdaddy said:

Hmmm...

Because you’ve an utter disdain for the band, Deadheads are evil, women fans and family members aren’t attractive, and the band is talentless.

Shallow.

                                                              Everyone is free to have their own thoughts on what they feel is good music..................that is my right..................sure some of the bands I consider good may be looked upon as terrible music as well. I don't believe there is anything wrong with "Deadheads" following the band they love................. OK by me.

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Okay, this is off the subject more than a little, but my personal small bit of Dead Trivia......"Gee, did you know I performed as.......?"

Way back in the 60s, we had a band in the Portland area. Nothing outta the ordinary, but we had fun. When a childhood buddy, who had been the lead singer, went off to college, he became a bit of a manager, finding us gigs. Some of the places we played were stories in and of themselves. Over a beer sometime.....

Anyway, we later split up when our leader, the only one of us with any actual talent back then, got fed up with school and his mother's 3rd marriage and joined the Navy. Boom, no more band. But Scott  found another gig for us anyway. He called a school where we had played before. Sure enough, they had another event coming up. "What band do you have?" "The Chains of Illusion"? (It WAS the 60s!)  "No thanks, we have had them before. Any other options?"

Thinking quickly for any name he could conjure up, "How about the Warlocks"?"

I am pretty sure Scott did not even realize (and likely did not care either) that, not too long before, the "Pre-Dead" apparently trouped all over the west coast countryside, seemingly in a Ken Kesey schoolbus, using that name. Well, the school was way the hell out in the sticks and they likely did not know either. Anyway, we were booked.

Of course, we had no band, no leader and no singer. But WTF, they are gonna pay us! And we got there to posters welcoming "The Warlocks".

We  hooked up with a local 16 year old that was (and still is) a guitar phenom. I mean when he was playing dead (sorry) on Jeff Beck, we just hung on and tried to keep up. No singer? No problem! We had one mic laid on a folding chair. Dear gentle Bob, the drummer, picked up the mic and said......."Our singer  is home with the flu, puking his guts out. He cannot be with us tonight." He set the mic down and picked up his drumsticks.

So.....We just jammed all night. I mean we did everything from Green River (CCR) to Greensleeves (Beck). NO vocals at all. I imagine had we been in a "hippie bar" in Portland, it would have been different. Poor kids 80 miles outside the "big city" did not have a clue. "We don't hear that kinda shit on the radio!" We musta had 6 people left in the audience 3 hours later. Pretty sure they did not want the "Warlocks" back again either......

Modern update......I have not gotten together with Mark, the guitar phenom, for a few years. He is a great guy. After the last time, I got an invite via Facebook from his wife (he is her second guitar playing hubby) to a "Midnight Ass Appreciation" party. Literally. (Entirely possible somebody hacked her account, but it dd come with an invitation to friend her). Figured it best for all concerned to just back away slowly.......

The first time we played in Vernonia there was a trip as well.....Story for another day......

I sometimes wish I was smart enough to make up stuff like this.......

 

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3 minutes ago, LucSulla said:

I really like Van Halen. 

13 hours ago, Kurt L said:

Deadheads accepted a bad night as the price you pay for the nights that were amazing. I can’t think of any other fan base that would say “Yeah, last night sucked. Can’t wait for tonight’s show!”

Van Halen was the band that immediately came to mind when I read Kurt's statement above.

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21 hours ago, ptm1diver said:

Must be and ultra lib snowflake.  This is utter BS.  I assume you love thrash metal, death metal, rap, hip hop, etc. which are not musical forms.  

I'll be you order wine by price, as a cork sniffer.

I'm a Dead fan, and enjoy the music.  Half the crap folks here fawn all over I cannot listen to for 10 seconds.  

There are some crappy Dead performances and songs, but they are few compared to the really good stuff,  and the band members solo efforts and participation in other bands (Old and In the Way) are great.  A talented bunch of musicians.

I usually don't go off like this, but your post is crap.

 

I went to a Phish concert at Holmdel, NJ.  I was TOTALLY straight.  I couldn't wait to leave.

My opinion is that of one who went to a Dead Concert peaking on LSD.  It was terrible.  

 

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4 minutes ago, MTM105 said:

 

I went to a Phish concert at Holmdel, NJ.  I was TOTALLY straight.  I couldn't wait to leave.

My opinion is quite objective. It is that of one who went to a Dead Concert while peaking on LSD.  It was terrible.  And I had no honest political affiliation.

I am a corksniffer.  Only when it comes to boutique Amplifiers.  I spent decades playing through Crates and Peaveys.

 

 

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I went to a Phish show and had a great time.  I have a good friend who loves them, but I really never have cared for them.  However, right after I finished up at UF and was about to move back to Austin, he talked me into going to a show in Orange Beach, Alabama.  I told him I wanted to full meal deal - hippie ethnography I believe I called it - so I was on all kinds of stuff by the end of the show.  I thought it was great, and he felt vindicated. 

So much so that he burned a CD of the show that morning (Phish folk record and post concerts quite quickly) to listen to on the way back to Gainesville.  I popped the disk in, listened for two minutes, and couldn't believe that was the show I had been at.  Terrible!  I mean, the musicianship was all great, but the songs were just not doing anything for me.  

At the end of the day, I found the stereotype to be true for me.  Tons of fun if you are in an altered state; pretty boring if you aren't.  Since I rarely have the time or inclination to indulge like that, I remain in the Phish-isn't-for-me camp. 

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23 hours ago, LucSulla said:

Scary thing there is AC/DC routinely takes out PA that they operate at only 50% of what it will actually do, you know, just in case eye-bleeding, sterility-inducing loud isn't quite loud enough.  I have a buddy in that world who has friends on AC/DCs crew, and he was saying you could easily get the same volume they generally use with half as much power as they take out.  

Makes me wonder if it's something they spec from some old days when all that stuff was less efficient.  

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On 2/13/2018 at 6:06 PM, RobB said:

Actually saw GD w/Bob Dylan (AND John Fogerty!) in ‘87. It was an eye-opening show for me, being the headbanging cynic and all. Parking lot scene was fun!

I was in (and stayed in) the parking lot for the Anaheim show that tour.  I was amazed at the number of people that show up with absolutely no intention of seeing the show.  It remains one of the most experimental nights of my life.

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Alright, if we're going to drag Phish into this...

A few years ago, my old college roommate (previously referenced, loves The Dead circa '72) gave me a ticket to see Phish as a birthday present. I'd seen Phish twice before at the Austin City Limits festival, but he insisted that didn't fully count because neither of those shows had a second set. (As he put it, "Asterisk, dude. Your Phish shows have an asterisk.")

Since he's in the Phish fan club, we got pre-sale tickets and admission into the pit. The concert was held at the Formula 1 race track outside of Austin, mid-summer. The pit in front of the stage is concrete. We got there when the gates opened, mid-afternoon, so we could get right on the barricade. Sure enough, we were 10 feet in front of Trey. Very cool to see him play that close to the stage. But it was hot as shit in that pit, and by the time the first set ended, we'd been down there at least 4 hours, probably closer to 5. We were wiped out.

So between sets it was time to cool off, and since the sun had gone down, we decided to reverse course. We went past all the reserved seating behind us and decided to watch the rest of the show from the open seating area at the top of the hillside. Made a pit stop, grabbed some beer, found a cool spot.

As the band started up, I decided to sit on the ground for a while since I could still see and I'd been on my feet for hours. From behind, a dog walks up and licks me on the arm. I like dogs and he was being friendly, so I held out my hand, let him sniff me and petted him. Soon his owner walked up and apologized, saying he hoped the dog wasn't bothering me. I told him we were making friends and all was cool. 

So the guy sits down and starts telling me a little more than I wanted to know about his life. He was being very friendly, and explained that this was his emotional support dog. He had done way too many drugs when he was younger, and if I remember correctly, also had some traumatic experiences serving in the military. I told him I was sorry to hear of his troubles and again assured him I had no problem with the dog. 

A minute later the guy stands up and picks up the dog. He's got his arms like a hoop in front of him - the dog's head is over the right arm, the tail is over the left arm, and all four legs are dangling in the middle.

The guy proceeds to pogo... jumping up and down pretty energetically, all the while bouncing a 30 pound dog in his arms. I just died laughing. The guy was going for full-on musical bliss, and though it seemed to me he was shaking the crap out of his dog, the dog really didn't seem to care. He kept it up for several songs, probably 10 minutes or more. I kept looking over and cracking up. 

Part of me was worried about the dog's hearing, part of me wondered if the dog wasn't going through an orthopedic nightmare... he (the dog) really didn't seem to mind. The guy saw me laughing and just smiled. He was having a great time. 

I still laugh my ass off. That guy pogoing with Phish dog was one of the weirdest things I ever saw...

P.S. I was at the Grateful Dead's last show, Soldier Field in Chicago. Still have the ticket on the wall of my little home studio. Notice the ticket says "TV view only." You don't think I stayed in that area, do you? Hell no, I did not!

MRTlGPS.jpg

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