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Along the Gibson line. Maybe.


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I've been to the "Pilgrimage" several times, and they were a lot of fun. 

13 hours ago, Ting Ho Dung said:

ETA: The story doesn't mention many of the guitar building crew were terminated today. 

Do tell!

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I hate to post threads from peeps no longer with us but I found this on TGP this morning.

It appears that Heritage Guitars has fired almost half of their employees, fired all their USA salesman.

AND

There were 300 completed instruments in the factory, with minor cosmetic issues.....under the former plant management, those instruments were going to be donated to schools. But since a new set of management has been brought in, all 300 guitars were cut up and thrown in a dumpster!!!

Looks like the corporate machine is rolling in Kalamazoo.

link:

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/some-disheartening-news-from-225-parsons-street.1915885/

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On 2/24/2018 at 11:46 AM, Thundersteel said:

I've been to the "Pilgrimage" several times, and they were a lot of fun. 

Do tell!

I got the link from Guy Nitz' post. I don't remember if he and I are really friends so if you know him you could get info from him. I don't remember my password to the HOC or the pseudonym I used to get back on after I got the boot a couple times. Van Gelder is always in the loop it seems though he may have had a falling out as well.  

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On 2/24/2018 at 11:55 AM, Hbom said:

I hate to post threads from peeps no longer with us but I found this on TGP this morning.

It appears that Heritage Guitars has fired almost half of their employees, fired all their USA salesman.

AND

There were 300 completed instruments in the factory, with minor cosmetic issues.....under the former plant management, those instruments were going to be donated to schools. But since a new set of management has been brought in, all 300 guitars were cut up and thrown in a dumpster!!!

Looks like the corporate machine is rolling in Kalamazoo.

link:

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/some-disheartening-news-from-225-parsons-street.1915885/

Damn, that fucking blows. Why not give them to schools? If they are concerned they are seconds they could chop the top of the headstock to eliminate their name and serial # and improve the look all at the same time. Then donate them. 

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This just in:

Feb. 24, 2018
FYI- Re- Dramatic changes at Heritage Guitars
As Heritage’s largest worldwide Customer/Dealer I was alarmed upon hearing they’d let go a dozen employees. The rumors are flying. So, I reached out to find out what’s up. I listened to explanations from Jim Duerloo, Archie Leach. They are OK with what has transpired and see no serious problem with continued Guitar building going forward. Jim felt they had way too many people anyway and Archie pointed out that the remaining shop staff is double what it was when he acquired the Company.
My observation is from a guy that receives and inspects more Heritages than anyone else, and what I’m witnessing is quite different than what some understandably unhappy former workers are saying. They’re saying that the new guys are lowering QC standards, but this is exactly opposite of what the new folks say and do. Heritage always made a solid and toneful Gibson style instrument BUT the fit, finish & especially the setups would vary from just pretty Okay to awful. These “old Gibson habits” and standards are a long standing and well known Kalamazoo standard. Wolfe Guitars has suffered with this shoddy Gibson style finishing for 3 decades and we learned early on to either return them or deal with it. We became really adept at correcting the many Kalamazoo glitches.
When Mr. Leach took over he vowed to do better, and he has repeated this mantra to me so many times. Has he delivered? YES, in a big way. Since he’s taken over we’ve seem BIG improvements in the new “bone” nut, vastly improved setup, vastly improved finish, and hardware fit. Still solid-toneful Gibson style instruments BUT they now look and play WAY better than before. WAY BETTER! Heritage are now delivering the absolutely finest Guitars ever, and no one knows this better than I.
So, why release a dozen workers? Archie has partnered with a large worldwide distribution Company- Bandlab, and those guys “insist” the QC MUST be even better! Archie agrees and told me the long time workers have resisted the changes and continued their old ways. This is unfortunate, but I support their herculean effort to make the “best Guitars to ever come from Kalamazoo.” Am I concerned? Just a bit, as I’ve seen the results of their efforts, and I believe they’ll get the job done. I will say this- the last few Guitars we’ve received are truly the finest I’ve ever seen & played from Kalamazoo, so the proof is here in my shop for anyone to see & play. Their intentions are good, so I will give them a chance and I hope you will too.

Sincerely,
Jay Wolfe, WOLFE GUITARS, Jupiter, Florida-USA

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Sorry, but those Heritage fans/apologists come off like a bunch of assholes.

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Quote

My observation is from a guy that receives and inspects more Heritages than anyone else, and what I’m witnessing is quite different than what some understandably unhappy former workers are saying. They’re saying that the new guys are lowering QC standards, but this is exactly opposite of what the new folks say and do. Heritage always made a solid and toneful Gibson style instrument BUT the fit, finish & especially the setups would vary from just pretty Okay to awful. These “old Gibson habits” and standards are a long standing and well known Kalamazoo standard. Wolfe Guitars has suffered with this shoddy Gibson style finishing for 3 decades and we learned early on to either return them or deal with it. We became really adept at correcting the many Kalamazoo glitches.

That's a brutal assessment that I have to agree with.  My only question is why Wolfe put up with them for so long if he felt this way?  Were they selling that well? 

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1 hour ago, cmatthes said:

Sorry, but those Heritage fans/apologists come off like a bunch of assholes.

                                                                             The only way they could make "Heritage Guitars" "Better" for everyone is to stop making them. If you can't make a decent guitar after 30 years of trying your basically F***ed I'd say...................there are no "BETTER" times ahead That might seem harsh and unfair  but as they say It IS what it IS. ufC552C.jpg

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2 hours ago, Ting Ho Dung said:

So, why release a dozen workers? Archie has partnered with a large worldwide distribution Company- Bandlab, and those guys “insist” the QC MUST be even better! Archie agrees and told me the long time workers have resisted the changes and continued their old ways.

If accurate, this is something that probably has to happen, given the well-documented history of consistent quality problems.  I have family who own small business, and have run into the same sort of situation.  If you're not the boss, you have a boss, and the boss calls the shots.  You defy at your peril.  Changing out the workforce doesn't guarantee success, but leaving it in place would pretty much guarantee failure.

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1 hour ago, LucSulla said:

That's a brutal assessment that I have to agree with.  My only question is why Wolfe put up with them for so long if he felt this way?  Were they selling that well? 

Put up with it for 30 years he said, lol

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I have nothing invsted in the success or failure of Heritage. But think about these facts for a moment: Hamer was known for sending deliveries of tonewood back to suppliers because it failed to meet the firm's stringent standards. Heritage sent their best finished goods to their best dealer, Jay Wolfe, rife with finish flaws and setup issues. He then had to either ship them back or correct the flaws to meet his stringent standards. If there's a clearer contrast in the legacies of Hamer products versus Heritage products, I don't know what it would be. 

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2 hours ago, gtrdaddy said:

Jay got the best they made because he insisted upon it. Hate to say it, but everyone else got the stuff Jay wouldn’t have. Jay swings a big stick with Heritage.

I've bought a few from Jay. He's OK, but his sidekick reminds me of a used car salesman. Nice guy, but very slick.

If Jay did get the best stuff, then I feel sorry for the other dealers. Half of the Heritage guitars I bought from him needed some work.

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1 hour ago, Biz Prof said:

I have nothing invsted in the success or failure of Heritage. But think about these facts for a moment: Hamer was known for sending deliveries of tonewood back to suppliers because it failed to meet the firm's stringent standards. Heritage sent their best finished goods to their best dealer, Jay Wolfe, rife with finish flaws and setup issues. He then had to either ship them back or correct the flaws to meet his stringent standards. If there's a clearer contrast in the legacies of Hamer products versus Heritage products, I don't know what it would be. 

All good points.  The first response after my post at HOC completely glosses over this, which I expected.... but then I did go over there and tell them I quit buying Heritages because the four 2011-2013 Gibsons I've bought recently were all as good, if not better, than the best Heritage I ever owned, and I owned several. They cost more or less the same and have better resale value, so I quit buying Heritage guitars.  

Basically, there's this "These are guitars made by hand, sometimes they won't be right due to it, but that's part of the magic" groupthink around that brand that I feel is such a copout. Basically, if I bought a high end guitar that required me to cut, shave, glue, or buff out any part of the guitar after I got it, I'd be pissed. I had to tweak the height of the bridge on the Shishkov when it showed up, which I is fine.  I imagine it was a helluvalot warmer here than where it came from.  Other than that, it was so perfect that it was even in tune when it got here.  To me THAT is old school craftsmanship, not having to cut a new nut and get a fret or two leveled being just part of the fun quirk of such an august group of builders. 

That being said, I would like them to stay afloat for a lot of reasons.  It is a historic business in a part of the US that definitely needs to hang on to as much manufacturing as it can. There is a market for their product it would seem too.  Maybe if they built fewer guitars better, the they could keep the half the employees they still do have employed. 

I just find it ironic that some Heritage owners excuse the exact same things they piss and moan about over at Gibson simply because they like the guys at Heritage. 

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1 hour ago, LucSulla said:

Basically, there's this "These are guitars made by hand, sometimes they won't be right due to it, but that's part of the magic" groupthink around that brand

 

7 minutes ago, gtrdaddy said:

That is the biggest pile of horse shit I’ve ever heard LOL!

For real.  How are those flaws corrected, by computer?  Magic? 

Hamers and Shishkovs, among others, are made by hand, but by hands that care about quality.

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Yeah, I don't buy that for a second.  There are a slew of boutique builders that kill. 

But then, I'm one of those idiots that doesn't see any issue with using a CNC to get the basic cut done before handcarcing and sanding the finished product too. I feel like that is downgrading a steakhouse because the chef didn't kill and butcher the cow onsite. 

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I also called out that handmade BS, which is exactly what it is. There are plenty of hand-made items out there that are PERFECT. You just need the people making them to give a crap.

Even if you have the CNC made bodies, the issues with fit and finish were all from parts of the process that are done by hand whether you've got a hand-carved body, or a machine carved one. Binding masking. Binding Scraping. Finishing. "Fit and Finish". Setups. Nut Slotting. Bridge slotting.

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3 hours ago, LucSulla said:

That being said, I would like them to stay afloat for a lot of reasons.  It is a historic business in a part of the US that definitely needs to hang on to as much manufacturing as it can. There is a market for their product it would seem too.  Maybe if they built fewer guitars better, the they could keep the half the employees they still do have employed. 

I just find it ironic that some Heritage owners excuse the exact same things they piss and moan about over at Gibson simply because they like the guys at Heritage. 

I hope they stay in business as per the above post. Very insightful there, college-boy!

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12 hours ago, Thundersteel said:

I've bought a few from Jay. He's OK, but his sidekick reminds me of a used car salesman. Nice guy, but very slick.

If Jay did get the best stuff, then I feel sorry for the other dealers. Half of the Heritage guitars I bought from him needed some work.

I was there once to get a Pleck. Jan screwed that up and then Jay made me pay $35 for a setup the guitar didn't need. I wrote out specific instructions point by point. One of the points on the list is that the guitar was used as drop D minus a half step. It was a floyded guitar. She thought the 6th string must have slipped through the lock nut and the setup was that she had to unscrew the nut and tune all the strings to pitch which made the Floyd raise so she had to adjust the springs. I spend over an hour setting up the guitar like I wanted it before heading down there. Jay wouldn't release my guitar to me until I paid him the extra 35 bucks. 

Yeah, and Graham followed me around the shop. I thought he was just after my ass.  

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