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Gibson files for bankruptcy


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10 hours ago, ArnieZ said:

When I think of Gibson it is certainly much more. I think 335, lp, L5. ES 175, SG, Firebird, J45. These all share in Gibson lore  and are significant in their own way

ArnieZ

Arnie, I hear you. What I am saying is the the 80/20 rule certainly applies here. The Les Paul is Gibson's big hitter. Any brand that relies so heavily on one thing will fall, even Porsch new that it had to bring other models to the range as it could not survive with just the 911 and all it's derivatives. Furthermore, Gibson's instance on making neck through and glued on designs meant that it could not compete with the "bolt on" boys, Fender, Charvel, Suhr, BC Rich all fine companies and all happy to bolt their necks on mean that they can enter the market place with American guitars at under, in Fenders case, $1000. Just sayin, you reap what you sow...

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12 hours ago, greenfreak said:

Dude, you are so way out of touch! PRS is probably right behind Gibson in the implosion category! Paul was so out of touch with reality building a factory 3x the size he needed, If it weren't for his SE sales he'd be in Chapter 11 too!!!

 

PRS financial statements are available on the internet.  They look nothing like Gibson's and by the way, SEs are to PRS what Epiphone is to Gibson.  It all gets counted.

...and honestly, my statements were more directed at the Gibson purists who call PRS guitars sterile and had nothing to do with Paul being a better manager than Henry.

Hoovers report on PRS /Notice the credit risk rating.

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The Les Paul really is and will continue to the Gibson's Big Cash Cow. It is the most well-known model, and an Iconic shape. The money they make on them is also, I would wager, quite a bit more than they make on other guitars. They go for as much as a 335, which takes a lot more man hours to build, and also takes more time to finish, etc. They ask the $$$ they do because they can.

As for PRS / SE , I think PRS himself has said that they wouldn't be able to operate as they do without he $$$ coming in from the import line. Almost every guitar company that has factory production has an import line. Sometimes under a different name like Squier, and sometimes under the same name as with the Gretschs.  Music Man moved from licensing OLP guitars to making "Sterling by Music Man".  And of course there were the import hamers, and Ibanez's multiple tiered approach to marketing.

That PRS is "low risk" shows that they made smart choices and didn't run themselves like a typical corporation, using lots of debt in an attempt to expand.

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2 hours ago, tbonesullivan said:

The Les Paul really is and will continue to the Gibson's Big Cash Cow. It is the most well-known model, and an Iconic shape. The money they make on them is also, I would wager, quite a bit more than they make on other guitars. They go for as much as a 335, which takes a lot more man hours to build, and also takes more time to finish, etc. They ask the $$$ they do because they can.

As for PRS / SE , I think PRS himself has said that they wouldn't be able to operate as they do without he $$$ coming in from the import line. Almost every guitar company that has factory production has an import line. Sometimes under a different name like Squier, and sometimes under the same name as with the Gretschs.  Music Man moved from licensing OLP guitars to making "Sterling by Music Man".  And of course there were the import hamers, and Ibanez's multiple tiered approach to marketing.

That PRS is "low risk" shows that they made smart choices and didn't run themselves like a typical corporation, using lots of debt in an attempt to expand.

One other name I wanted to add to your list is Schecter. If it wasn't for the MIK guitars there wouldn't be a Schecter USA guitar to be had new.  

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On 5/2/2018 at 12:01 PM, Steve Haynie said:

Well, Biz Prof's suggestion of Jol Dantzig as a joke is not far off from a good solution for Gibson.  Frank Untermyer, one of the other Hamer founders, was brought into Ovation to make production more efficient at the factory.  Frank is an example of someone who knows how the music business works.  At the business level there are a few people who have moved fom one company to another.  Gibson can restructure and find people to make the individual divisions work or get sold off.   

Who ends up owning Gibson is the big question for guitar players while business people can eye all the other brands Gibson owns like Epiphone, Kramer, Maestro, Steinberger, Tobias, Dobro, Slingerland, Valley Arts, Baldwin, Wurlitzer, TEAC, Onkyo, Pioneer, and Cerwin Vega.  Some of those old names can be revived.  Considering that some of those brands have not been made in the USA for a long time they could even become Chinese owned.  

In a perfect world I would own Gibson.  They would all be made with Hamer quality, and there would only be the models I like which would limit the Les Paul line to Standards, Customs, Specials, and Juniors.  Magically it would still make money since it would be a perfect world, to me at least. 

From a business point of view, Gibson has been looking for "a buyer" and no one would touch it under Henry's terms.  The bondholders, Investment bankers and VC crowd will not wait too long to dump most if not all the names. 

Frank U would be one of the few guys I truly think could manage Gibson however you have to remember Hamer wasn't managed by the founders, it was "run" by lawyers and accountants.  I don't think in general any of the old names can be revived and become viable competitors given the current market.  

You can blame or thank Hartley Peavey for the current and past business model for the music business model.  (Willie G wrote a good book about this).

I agree almost all brands need to survive with an import line whether its PRS, Hamer (defunct), or insert name here.

I am remotely interested in seeing what happens to the business we know as Gibson Guitars.  To borrow a line from Apocalypse Now, Investment bankers "Charlie" don't surf" (shred, play cowboy chords, and etc).  It will come down to the money.  It always does.

Hamerica

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21 hours ago, Carl.B said:

One other name I wanted to add to your list is Schecter. If it wasn't for the MIK guitars there wouldn't be a Schecter USA guitar to be had new.  

Very true, and they were pretty much only Imports for a while, before really bringing back the US Custom shop. From what BCR Greg has been posting, they are doing great stuff, AND are very willing to work with dealers on special orders, something Hamer under Jol was not as willing to do. (BOOMERSSSS)

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On May 2, 2018 at 11:48 AM, dewey finn said:

The Les Paul is the most Iconic of Gibson's models. It is a signature instrument. What I have never understood is why Gibson issues signature Les Pauls. I know it's marketing. But I have to chuckle a bit when I see a Slash signature LES PAUL or a Zakk Wylde LES PAUL it's amazingly stupid to me Just my opinion,which when, combined with $2.00, will buy me a cup of coffee.

Yeah, I agree. The Les Paul, by definition, already is a signature guitar. Having a "Slash" signature Les Paul is like having a "Steve Vai" signature EVH guitar. Hey, if EVH starts playing the "Slash" Les Paul, will we get an EVH signature "Slash" Les Paul guitar? And if Satriani were to start playing that, would we get -- well, you get the idea, ad infinitum. 

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23 minutes ago, Steve Haynie said:

Someone with a sense of humor will one day suggest a deal to have a signature-signature-signature model. 

I'm in for a JP/JB/PG-GM LP.

Of course it will have to have a larger headstock.......

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2 hours ago, Steve Haynie said:

Someone with a sense of humor will one day suggest a deal to have a signature-signature-signature model. 

The Baby Taylor Taylor Swift guitar is a real model guitar, all you need is for James Taylor to get on board, then you'd have the Baby Taylor Taylor Swift Sweet Baby James Taylor model.

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7 hours ago, Steve Haynie said:

Someone with a sense of humor will one day suggest a deal to have a signature-signature-signature model. 

Isn't that what I just did? Oh, wait, you meant, like, for real?

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4 minutes ago, FGJ said:
7 hours ago, Steve Haynie said:

Someone with a sense of humor will one day suggest a deal to have a signature-signature-signature model. 

Isn't that what I just did? Oh, wait, you meant, like, for real?

 

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1 hour ago, Steve Haynie said:

This was in the article: 

How did the import line end up in trouble? 

The article is a very subtle satirical article...

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  • 1 month later...

Yeah, it was in the docs that he'll get a couple million to be a 'consultant' for a year. I am wondering if they just told him to gtfo or if he got moved to a moldy storage closet or anything like that.

 

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10 hours ago, Tortious said:

Yeah, it was in the docs that he'll get a couple million to be a 'consultant' for a year. I am wondering if they just told him to gtfo or if he got moved to a moldy storage closet or anything like that.

 

Henry in his new office space (see what I did there?).

 

52cd452efc17ba9470609bfe7a29a79f.jpg

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