How to ship a rare and expensive guitar with case?

[chap]

Simple question: how do you safety, securely and confidently ship a rare and expensive guitar that can't be replaced or repaired if damaged?

So I think my gold Standard is mostly sold to a fellow HFC'er who is very interested in it. We've agreed on all aspects of this transaction but we're stalled on how to ship it. Here is the problem. I live in Vancouver Canada, he's in contintental USA. No problem, I can cross the border to Point Roberts WA and ship it from there. I do it all the time. 

The problem is how do you ship a rare, expensive and irreplaceable guitar safely, securely and with insurance on the full value? 

The guitar and case weights 24lb. It is 48" x 20" x 6"

I called Fedex in Canada. They do not provide any packing services. They WILL sell materials but they don't have a box of that size. They offer insurance up to $1000CAD at the most. I was told additional insurance can be purchased from a private third party insurer. They will not insure something that cannot be replaced.

I called Fedex in USA. They do not provide any packing services. They offer no insurance whatsoever. They also said I can buy insurance from a third party insurer. 

I'm also not able to find a box for this guitar. So I built a crate for it using 1x3's and 2x4's, but the buyer wasn't happy with that solution: 

 

 

[HSB0531]

Currier service? 

[BTMN]

I have soft packed inside the case with bubble wrap In the headstock area and put a thin strip of cardboard the width of the fingerboard under the strings. Loosen the strings a bit. The Standard case should be form fitting. Go to a guitar shop to get a guitar box or use good packing tape and make a box using a fridge box from like Home Depot. I usually will put one layer of bubble wrap around the case and a double layer on the ends in the top and bottom of the box. Making a box you may get under the oversized shipping cost also. 

[django49]

From my own experience, the insurance offered by UPS or FedEx is worthless UNLESS you are a good friend of the local franchise owner. The saving grace was that when two shipments went south, is that (after running me around for a few months, then denying the claim, "But we really DO appreciate your business, sir!") I called the private insurer with whom I have my whole collection insured and they DID cover it. So, if you DO have such coverage, make sure you have fully documented everything.

I have had a lot of experience with shipping many dozen guitars and have a pretty good idea on how to do it. But those two experiences soured me big time.

Apparently Reverb DOES provide good coverage, but that implies selling through them, with all the attendant taxes and other costs.

Building a huge crate SHOULD give you added protection, but that much extra weight also probably makes it more likely it will get dropped somewhere along the way.

[chap]

6 minutes ago, HSB0531 said:

Currier service? 

Hmm will investigate. Courier that far though???? 

I don't think anyone is going to insure something like this. 

It's like owning a 1967 Corvette. It can sell for more than $100K USD but I doubt anyone will insure it for the value of the car if you wrap it around at tree taking a corner at 100MPH. Insuring classic / vintage cars around here is super cheap because they're not insuring the car or any repairs to it. 

[chap]

5 minutes ago, BTMN said:

I have soft packed inside the case with bubble wrap In the headstock area and put a thin strip of cardboard the width of the fingerboard under the strings. Loosen the strings a bit. The Standard case should be form fitting. Go to a guitar shop to get a guitar box or use good packing tape and make a box using a fridge box from like Home Depot. I usually will put one layer of bubble wrap around the case and a double layer on the ends in the top and bottom of the box. Making a box you may get under the oversized shipping cost also. 

The buyer suggested hitting up a local guitar store, I mean I'll try but I highly doubt that they're going to be so nice as to let me into their backroom with a measuring tape looking for a box so I can compete with them on a guitar sale. I mean I'll try, but here in Van BC all the guitar stores are mostly closed. Only one big one Long and McQuade in Vancouver and others are just tiny shops selling novice gear. What are my chances of finding a guitar store that is selling a Gibson Explorer and then keeping the box that it came in??? 

 

[HSB0531]

Get a first class round trip plane ticket for you and a one-way first class ticket for the guitar.  Get your seats in the front of the plane with you in the middle seat and the guitar in the window seat.

The truth is, there is no 100% guarantee on any method of shipping, but while expensive, this is the only way you will know for sure, that the guitar will arrive safe. 

[chap]

6 minutes ago, django49 said:

From my own experience, the insurance offered by UPS or FedEx is worthless UNLESS you are a good friend of the local franchise owner. The saving grace was that when two shipments went south, is that (after running me around for a few months, then denying the claim, "But we really DO appreciate your business, sir!") I called the private insurer with whom I have my whole collection insured and they DID cover it. So, if you DO have such coverage, make sure you have fully documented everything.

I have had a lot of experience with shipping many dozen guitars and have a pretty good idea on how to do it. But those two experiences soured me big time.

Apparently Reverb DOES provide good coverage, but that implies selling through them, with all the attendant taxes and other costs.

Building a huge crate SHOULD give you added protection, but that much extra weight also probably makes it more likely it will get dropped somewhere along the way.

 

I can understand that, I think shipping companies need to have a really hard line on shipping insurance otherwise it would leave the door wide open to fraud. Unfortunately, legitimate claims are denied as well. So the shipping company DID NOT cover the damage but your private insurer DID cover it. 

Let me run that by the buyer. Perhaps I can list it on Reverb and he and buy it right away. But it'll be another 9% ontop of the cost which is Reverb's cut. And I would have to review Reverb's policy on returns. We've agreed to PayPal Friends and Family Gifting as it is a one-way transaction... 

 

[chap]

2 minutes ago, HSB0531 said:

Get a first class round trip plane ticket for you and a one-way first class ticket for the guitar.  Get your seats in the front of the plane with you in the middle seat and the guitar in the window seat.

The truth is, there is no 100% guarantee on any method of shipping, but while expensive, this is the only way you will know for sure, that the guitar will arrive safe. 

Interesting idea, I'll actually suggest that. 

Maybe I can meet him in Wyoming or Idaho or something. I can probably drive there in one (long) day. 

How would get get it home though? He lives in SE continental USA. 

[HSB0531]

12 minutes ago, chap said:

Interesting idea, I'll actually suggest that. 

Maybe I can meet him in Wyoming or Idaho or something. I can probably drive there in one (long) day. 

How would get get it home though? He lives in SE continental USA. 

Well, I would assume he would take ownership wherever you both meet and you have your round trip ticket to fly back while he drives his new guitar home.

Or you can drive it to him, get a hotel room afterwards, and drive back in the morning.

Or make it a 2-day drive each way plus hotels.

[bry4321]

I read somewhere about using a bicycle box to ship it in. 
 

edit: paging @velorush @JGale @kizanski?

Edited August 29, 2024 by bry4321

[The Shark]

Pack the guitar inside the case first.  It can't move.  The neck must be supported.  The fingerboard should have a strip of posterboard or something a little thicker between the strings and the fingerboard.  Suspend the case in a box big enough to have two inches all around the wood case.  I like bubble wrap.  Write all over the box "Up" and "Fragile".  Insure it for more than it's worth, when it's worth more than 3K.  Let 'er rip.

FedEx, not UPS or USPS...

Edited August 29, 2024 by The Shark

[chap]

3 hours ago, The Shark said:

Pack the guitar inside the case first.  It can't move.  The neck must be supported.  The fingerboard should have a strip of posterboard or something a little thicker between the strings and the fingerboard.  Suspend the case in a box big enough to have two inches all around the wood case.  I like bubble wrap.  Write all over the box "Up" and "Fragile".  Insure it for more than it's worth, when it's worth more than 3K.  Let 'er rip.

FedEx, not UPS or USPS...

The box is the problem. Other than that it is ready to sell. The buyer is just being careful and I don't blame him. 

The buyer, also an HFC member wants a box with at least 2" on all sides. Who is going to make a box like that and how can I buy only one of those boxes? 

So the case is 48" x 20" x 6". The closest box I can find us Uline part number S-19831 which measures 48" x 24" x 8", not quote 2" on either side and too short on the length. Plus either the buyer or me has to by a min of 10 of them. Problem is this is way too large for my other Hamers I'm trying to sell. 

So I tried to make my own crate but the buyer didn't like that idea as it would add 16lb, but I figure it'll be super strong and I can build it so it has 2" on all sides. 

https://www.uline.ca/Product/Detail/S-19831/Corrugated-Boxes-200-Test/48-x-24-x-8-Corrugated-Boxes?keywords=S-19831

 

[crunchee]

This might seem like an obvious question, but have you looked for/asked for a used box that was used for a bass and/or a bass case?  Some people, when they hear 'large guitar' box might think of an acoustic guitar box, which could work if it wasn't too short.  Also, if you could figure out a way to splice two acoustic guitar boxes together end-to-end for extra length, that might work, provided it meets size limitations.

Edited August 29, 2024 by crunchee

[beezerboy]

4 hours ago, The Shark said:

FedEx, not UPS or USPS

no. my experience that Freds's Ex is the worst. USPS is way better

plan a short vacation and do as HSBO suggests.... deliver in person. then... do the tour, eat a hot dog, take some pix

[Bennyboy-UK]

Hello!

 

Heres a snip from another thread where I've gone throuhg some details on shipping I've used to transport and insure various expensive guitars including a Watson and a Virt - hope its helpful - check the links out.

• Whenever I can - I like to arrange reverse shipping - using a UK based international courier broker like Transglobal Express to pick up an item from say the US, and transport it to me in the UK - it's almost always less expensive that USPS for example or my seller arranging transport. https://www.transglobalexpress.co.uk/
• I tend to buy insurance for the item in transit from Secursus - again less expensive than buying insurance from the courier themselves. https://www.secursus.com/

 

Cheers,
Ben.

Edited June 7 by Bennyboy-UK

[DaveH]

1 hour ago, beezerboy said:

no. my experience that Freds's Ex is the worst. USPS is way better

plan a short vacation and do as HSBO suggests.... deliver in person. then... do the tour, eat a hot dog, take some pix

No. USPS flat SUCKS! Tracking is all but nonexistent, and I don't feel any better about trusting something valuable with Fedex.  I'd almost feel better freighting it with Fastenall or Greyhound (kidding on  Greyhound.) UPS is a little better in my experience, but none are foolproof. If the guitar is that valuable, the only suggestion I've seen here that I would be comfortable with is buying two plane tickets. I think BCR actually did that some years ago.

[kizanski]

3 hours ago, DaveH said:

If the guitar is that valuable, the only suggestion I've seen here that I would be comfortable with is buying two plane tickets. I think BCR actually did that some years ago.

That was for a '59 Les Paul.  I don't think the price point here warrants that.

 

12 hours ago, chap said:

I called Fedex in USA. They do not provide any packing services. They offer no insurance whatsoever. They also said I can buy insurance from a third party insurer.

You don't have instrument insurance, like through Heritage, for example?

[velorush]

13 hours ago, chap said:

That's an amazing bit of kit, but have you priced shipping it? $$$$ Rates are based on volume and weight. A given volume (typically the determinate factor in shipping something as large as a guitar) will have a minimum standard weight charge. If you exceed the standard weight for your volume, you are then assessed a premium for being overweight.

I agree with @django49 that the structure that affords also makes it unwieldy for the typical FedEx / UPS infrastructure and so perhaps more susceptible to "events" - but maybe such a structure could withstand them.

We ship tons (literally) of very expensive telecom equipment including very heavy batteries (some in excess of #200 each) all of the continental US. We've logged incredible tales of damage from such a mosaic of stupidity it would fill a book.  We have these little cardboard pyramids that get strapped to the top of pallets saying "do not stack" and the pallet arrives with damage and the pyramid crushed. An LTL driver that didn't speak English (increasingly the case) backed into our warehouse wall because he didn't understand when we told him the door wasn't large enough for his trailer. We've had entire pallets of equipment shipped to California go missing only to reappear empty and in Mexico.  

At any rate, and as others have said, you 'takes your chances.' Read the fine print on the shipping insurance.  UPS uninsured pays $99.  Insurance rates are pretty steep, but you must prove it was packed "properly," a subjective term. Photographic evidence is absolutely required and still does not ensure the rep will agree with your definition of "properly." 

Some principles I'll share from experiences in guitar shipping and from telecom equipment shipping:

1. as said above, the guitar cannot move within the case. Permitting even slight movement in the case permits, when the box is dropped, momentum to be absorbed by the guitar rather than the entire package.  I type "when" because, UPS, for example states in the fine print a package should be packed such to permit a 3-foot (0.914m) drop. This is baked into the system of conveyors.

2. ship as quickly as economically feasible - the longer a package is in the system the more occasion for mishap. Overnight is absolutely the best way as: a. less time in the system means fewer opportunities for bungling, and, b. at least theoretical attention to priority handling. That said, overnight shipments (we frequently are forced to overnight due to engineering "omissions") don't always arrive overnight.

3. be cognizant of the weekends - don't ship so that the item is in the system over the weekend, especially a guitar. This may come as a surprise, but UPS doesn't unload trucks prior the weekend. If your guitar arrives at a terminal on Friday, it will bake in the trailer/broiler all weekend long and then get unloaded on Monday. Better to ship on Monday so it doesn't have to bake over a weekend. Shipping overnight and on Monday is the best course, again, if economically feasible. The two-day options from both carriers are often significantly less expensive and still provide some relief from the enemy - time in the system.

All that considered, would be interesting to get an Uber quote for comparison. 😉

I am not claiming any sort of proficiency or expertise in these matters.  These are just some things I've observed over the years. 

[hamerhead]

When I shipped my LPC to Murkat all the way from Wisconsin to Tennessee () I bought a flight case. The flight case fit the guitar perfectly, without any movement whatsoever. I put the case back in the box it was shipped in, attached 1" of styrofoam sheeting to that (2" on the ends), and put it inside another box. Jay returned it the same way. It was heavy AF but worked great, and was reused for the Special FM that made the same trip.

I can't emphasize this enough: DO NOT put anything INSIDE the case at the headstock end of the neck. When they drop the box on that end - and they will - you need unimpeded space or bad things will happen. Gently support the neck side-to-side and front-to-back, and make sure the body can't move inside the case.

The ends are the most important. Pad each end on the OUTSIDE of the case as much as possible with foam. Do not use bubble wrap - it pops and leaves the end unprotected. Do not use shipping peanuts - they move and settle and leave the end unprotected. Foam stays in place and does its job.

If you pack to survive a gorilla toss onto concrete from 15 feet away, you're close to being good. Beezerboy's 'short vacation' idea is the most bulletproof.

 

[kizanski]

6 minutes ago, hamerhead said:

I can't emphasize this enough: DO NOT put anything INSIDE the case at the headstock end of the neck. When they drop the box on that end - and they will - you need unimpeded space or bad things will happen.

This.
Secure the body, but the headstock should be surrounded by nothing but air.

 

This, on the other hand, is insane.

I mean, it's beautiful and i can appreciate the time and craftsmanship involved in making it, but it will cost you a guitar sale just to ship it.
Also, if the guitar isn't in the case right (secure the body, not the headstock), it is an exercise in futility.

I've seen (and received) guitars packed in glorious boxes and packing materials only to find that the headstock hit the end of the case in shipping and snapped the headstock.

 

[cynic]

23 minutes ago, kizanski said:

Secure the body, but the headstock should be surrounded by nothing but air.

One would think the design of every guitar case EVER would offer clues here, but people still insist they know better.

[The Shark]

7 hours ago, beezerboy said:

no. my experience that Freds's Ex is the worst. USPS is way better

plan a short vacation and do as HSBO suggests.... deliver in person. then... do the tour, eat a hot dog, take some pix

And I have 160 guitars with forty years experience.  I've made claims.  USPS and UPS denied or mitigated each claim.  I've had a FedEx account for over twenty years.  They paid both claims in a timely fashion that I submitted.  

[kizanski]

26 minutes ago, The Shark said:

And I have 160 guitars with forty years experience.  I've made claims.  USPS and UPS denied or mitigated each claim.  I've had a FedEx account for over twenty years.  They paid both claims in a timely fashion that I submitted.  

But Heritage Insurance is the best way to go.

No, I don't work for them.  I'm just a huge proponent of peace of mind, especially when it is provided inexpensively.

[cynic]

The absolute best advice for insuring a guitar (especially one valued at $6k) during transit is to not use what's offered by any shipping company.  Going 3rd party eliminates the blame game and leaves you with someone that has no vested interest in being right, and isn't as concerned about fault.

Regarding fault, make sure every step of the packaging process is recorded in both photos and videos, including something clearly proving the timeframe they were made.  This is the ONLY opportunity you have to prove you took every measure to prevent damage.  Make it count.

For the record, Heritage is no longer a fan of letting you insure one guitar for the purpose of covering a pending transit (been there, tried that), so something like Securus might be the better option for this transaction.