Another small amp thread

[darc]

I tried to hijack the GDEC vs Microcube thread and failed so here goes. I'm looking for a portable amp suitable for gigging a rock band in small clubs. My Guitar Rig setup straight to the board sounds great sometimes, and awful at other times - basically, I don't think I can be at the mercy of the soundman any more. (No sound check last night = disaster.)

So the amp needs to get over an acoustic drum kit without farting out, but doesn't need to be any louder than that. I'm thinking in terms of a 1x10" combo like the Rivera Clubster 25, or even the new Trademark 30. I've never played a 1x10" cab before and I don't know if I'm being realistic about getting a good sound -the TM30 gets mixed reviews in this regard but people are raving about that Rivera. Obviously these are very different amps in very different price ranges, only the form factor is comparable.

So does anybody have any opinions on either of these amps, or any recommendations on something competitive that meets the description? A 50W 1x12 is definitely more than I need and more than I'd prefer to lug. I still have to deal with my guitar synth hw and pedal board, so small is better. But am I being realistic about finding a 10" amp that can deliver tonally? The folks on Harmony Central seem to think the Clubster is the magic bullet.

I just need to something to take the rough edges off my signal before it hits the board, since no one ever does anything with the EQ at the board, and I never have a chance to get near it myself.

[silentman]

I do not like 10 inch speakers. I played thru a pair of 4x10's awhile back, but a single 10 inch doesn't work for me. My main gogging amp for several years now has been the Mesa Boogie F30. It's compact, loud and sounds great in rock applications. Not very expensive (and simple to use) for a mesa and I've seen plenty of used ones around. I paid $600 for mine (used). The F30 has a V30 speaker.

Edited to add: I use mine on gigs where it's not mic'd up and it works fine. Sometimes I'll hook up an extra 12" cab, but on it's own it works well.

[mattb]

I had a Pubster 25 (Sold it to my singer) and it worked for that type of application. My singer uses it on every gig and people can easily hear him even with my MKIV wailing away. I would imagine the Clubster would be perfect for what you are looking for. The F30 is a helluva amp as well. Maybe a Subway Rocket would work....There are a lot of options.

[Hamer95USA]

Hey darc,

The Rivera Pubster/Clubster 25 amps are pretty cool and was an amp I was considering buying until I got my Omega Amps modded Hot Rod Deluxe. 25 watts is not bad for using with a band, but 40 watts is good insurance against a loud drummer.

Guitar George

[darc]

Thanks for the feedback, guys. I imagine I'll have to find a dealer that carries Rivera at some point, and let my own ears be the judge. That's always the bottom line.

Nobody's had a shot at the Trademark 30 yet? I would have guessed Greg had a store full of 'em.

[tomteriffic]

Good suggestions all. I'd second a Subway Rocket, maybe with an extension cabinet in reserve if needed. Another possibility would be a modded Peavey Classic 30. One of those and a 2 x 12 extension was way plenty even at the last Midwest Jam.

[NeilZ]

I have used a Fender Pro Junior in a three piece live and it works great. Just dime the contorls and work off your guitar's volume and tone controls.

At US$299 they are a bargain tube amp.

[Guest Meshuggah]

Tech21 Trademark 60 with a Valvulator first in the pedal chain. Plugs directly into the board. Vavulator provides 9V and tuner out.

[darc]

I'm getting a lot of feedback for 50W+ 12" amps here. I'm really specifically looking for something smaller than that that will get the job done. Unless this is your way of telling me a 10" combo just plain isn't up to it? (Which silentman came right out and said.)

2x12's and extension cabs and all that are right out, by the way. If I was shopping for luggage, I'd just buy a couple of cabs - I've already got a high-powered head, even if it is a very unfashionable modelling amp that starts with a "V".

I've owned a couple of 1x12 combos - a 100W Boogie and a 60W Flextone. The Boogie was way heavier and WAY louder than this application calls for, and believe it or not, even the Flextone was overkill. I don't really understand why everyone recommends so much power - we're not a quiet band, and that little SS flextone never broke a sweat. I don't think I ever came close to cranking it either.

Now, recommending a bigger cabinet, more or bigger speakers - that I can see.

[silentman]

LOL darc, you should know that no one gets their questions answered the way they want 'round here.

I've never had the need for a lot of power. In fact when I was using my Mark IV head, I had that at low power all the time. The F30 is 30 watts and I barely have the volume up at gigs past 8:00 on the dial even with no PA.

[cmatthes]

Darc:

I'm not sure that the T30 will cut it. Not saying it isn't a nice amp, but I think you'll strain to compete in a band situation. Are you talking about plugging straight in w/conventional pedal assortment or running some sort of high tech marvel and looking for transparent projection?

If the former, I'd recommend looking into an old Boogie Studio 22+ (1x12 combo) or maybe even a newer VOX AC15. Both are plenty loud and have decent headroom for cleans if you're looking for that.

The Studio series are relative bargains and you can typically find them out there. I have heard great stuff about the Riveras as well.

Not sure if it helps, but I'd opt for a 1x12 over a 1x10 for a band setting - I think you'd get lost in the mix with the smaller format speaker. Of course it depends on what kind of stuff you're playing too - a Variaxed Parker doing Frippertronics v. a Les Paul bashing out power chords would probably require different amps!

[darc]

Are you talking about plugging straight in w/conventional pedal assortment or running some sort of high tech marvel and looking for transparent projection?

That's an excellent question, and of course the answer is, I don't know. I'm already back-pedalling on this whole laptop guitarrista philosophy by looking at amps, and the question is, how far will I need to back-pedal, and how often? ie. Will I integrate my high-tech stuff, or will I use high-tech for some gigs and low-tech for others, or some combination of the above? I'd like an amp that let's me hedge my bets by providing good tones on it's own and with stompoxes, and providing good transparent power via an FX loop return. If I find an amp with tones I really love, and a decent channel switching setup, I can off-load some of the amp-modeling that my laptop is presently straining under.

Not sure if it helps, but I'd opt for a 1x12 over a 1x10 for a band setting - I think you'd get lost in the mix with the smaller format speaker.

Another good observation, seems like common sense, and is definitely what I found trying to use an 8" cab c/o the TM10 (yikes!) But ironically, whenever I have trouble sitting in the mix correctly, the complaint is that I'm pushing too much low-end. I even thought that maybe a smaller cab would keep in line in terms of stepping on the bass-player's toes frequency-wise. I always gravitate toward warm, bottom heavy sounds when I play alone, but then find that nobody else likes how they project in a band mix.

The sad thing is that I'm really digging my minimal high-tech setup right now. It covers all the bases and fits in a backpack, and if there's time to get things right it works. But there are just too many ways to get it wrong, and too few people paying any attention.

[Jimbilly]

A Fender Blues Jr. would be a good choice, those are pretty darn loud, upgrade the speaker to a V30 and that's a great little amp.

[darc]

Yeah I was eyeballing the Pro Junior and Blues Junior a couple of years ago. Actually my wife told me yesterday that she'd been planning on buying me a Pro Jr for xmas, but I told her not to.

The Pro'd fit the bill except it's got no effects loop, and I hear rumors that they've got reliability problems on account of shaking themselves to pieces at volumes?

The Blues Jr might do it, but at 12" and $400 it starts to edge into territory where I'd just as soon buy a channel switcher that can cop my high gain tones as well - eg. the Mesa F30 might be a better fit.

I've got some legwork to do, looks like. Thanks for all the replies!

[AdmiralB]

Crate Powerblock and a compact 1x12.

[hamersandstrats]

I just bought an older Pro Junior with the alnico speaker for cheap, and am selling my Blues Junior. I am willing to pass along some of my savings and let it go for $225+shipping. PM me if you are interested. It is a recent model, 2003 I believe, in the black tolex with original tubes and speaker.

I have known quite a few players who gig with the Pro and the Blues Jr., both mic'd and un mic'd and they alsways sound good.

[darc]

That's a pretty compelling price, hamersandstrats. What kind of condition is it in?

[hamersandstrats]

I would say very excellent-near mint.

[darc]

Argh. Trekked out and kicked the tires on a Blues Jr last night (the salesmen told me I'd be disappointed w/ the Pro Jr in a band context and I was inclined to agree just by eyeballing the cabinet.) Anyway loved the Blues Jr, really. Sounds great, loud enough, and surprisingly light and compact for a 1x12.

There are some downsides, which I'll get to, but hamersandstrats offer at $225 was just a no-brainer. Unfortunately by the time I got home that amp was gone.

So anyhow, it's not all bad news. The Blues Jr kinda helps me identify what I'm looking for. The size and weight are just right, so I'm looking for 30 lbs or less. Somewhere around 50lbs I start getting cranky. I really dig the bright Fender clean and hope that I can get heavier tones via a distortion pedal in front. Pretty major paradigm-shift for me.

Unfortunately I can't work my head around not having an effects loop. I need to be able to route in a sound module and that definitely won't play nice with preamp gain. So this simplifies things: can anyone recommend an amp nearly identical to a Blues Jr, but with an effects loop? And here's a probably stupid question - does the construction of a Blues Jr lend itself to modding, and would it be feasible to add an effects loop?

I'm inclined to go back and buy the amp new from this dealer (Joe's Guitars) - even at twice the price h&s offered - because he's always friendly and helpful. If not for the fx loop hitch...