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Old 80’s Vectors headstocks...


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I liked BadgerDave's last line because Jol basically said that at the 2004 Open House..."Good luck, though, today's "no" often turns into tomorrow's "yes" with Hamer...." It was all in what the market was doing. Something like if used was consistentlly selling for what new price was with sustained demand it might be worth doing. Then again be patient a lil while that old Vector you want Zorrow is just around the corner or 5 years down the line in a new Custom order. Ran makes some cool stuff but it is still bootleg copies made in Russia huh?

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Having heard "no" from the folks at Hamer a few times, I just assume that Jol has his reasons and move on.

Sometimes he doesn't want to revisit old concepts (no FBs or "beer" guitars) sometimes its a production issue (no reverse victory inlays) and sometimes he won't build something that he does not believe fits with Hamer's current image or Jol's personal design or aesthetic tolerances.

That's a diplomatic way of saying that Jol won't put the Hamer name on something he considers "butt ugly". Regardless of how much a customer wants it or how much someone is willing to pay.

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When 80s Vectors are still widely available in the Sub-$1,000 category, chances are, you're simply not going to get one out of Hamer. If you're looking for that exact headstock, they won't build that for anybody, it's not just you. Understand that it is nothing personal, and that the company is actually pretty accommodating overall. They are simply at a point in their business where they need to weigh the pros of taking time to retool for an essential one-off v. getting 20-30 guitars out the door to customers. It is far more cost-effective and makes perfect business sense for them to do the latter. If they green-lighted every customer request that came through the door, you'd never see a new Hamer hanging in the shops. That is no good for ANY brand.

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I'd wait for an 80s Vector if that's what you're looking for. There are tons of them out there, ya just have to wait for them to pop up. When one shows up and does well, more get posted in quick succession. I've seen that trend on Vectors almost a dozen times in the ten or so years I've been actively following Hamers.

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Part of the reason I haven't sought out a Talladega is that 3x3 headstock. I'd personally prefer a righty "SS" headstock 'cause it would look more tele/strat-like and match the tele-esque body better.

But I'm confident that idea would never pass for a custom-order. Too 80s-shreddy for 'em.

I'd be inclined to get a matching-paint maple veneer on the SS head to make it more traditional looking, but I'm sure that would get flunked too.

You got it, let's order two. Perhaps they'll go for it. :)

SSII-Head.jpg

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Ran guitars are made in Poland and are really great. No wonder why Jeff Waters from Annihilator -- an ex-Hamer customer, BTW-- dares to endorse them. Ok, I understand a Ran guitar wouldn't be as cool as an American Hamer, but quality-wise I don't think they're way behind.

Back now to early Hamer Vectors and their "ugly" headstocks: I do realize they don't want to make them anymore, so that's why I started this thread. :)

Ok, I'll probably be contacting JohnnyThunders again, even if the pick-guard looks odd to me -- at the very end I can remove it if I don't get used to its look. But that's my problem: all the Vectors around don't fit 100% to my GAS. I'm discovering I'm picky as hell -- there's always something:

BTMN's has one single volume control and one pickup, and it's a refinish; Johnny's has a pick-guard (I might reconsider this reason though); Dave's (the one I would really want) is priced at "one meellion dollars" (I could actually add two hundreds more to my last offer, but it looks it's a keeper to him anyway); I find John's Schenker pricey, given that I don't enjoy that finish too much; Mikel's could be interesting, but he's very slow in answering my messages; Malthe's got its neck broken right before I could conclude a deal with him... and well, Hamer won't build one to my specs! I think I have some good reasons to feel a bit frustrated.

But thanks a lot for the advices about waiting. I'll wait a bit more, ok. If I think about it twice I realize it is not urgent. It's just that patience is not my main virtue. :P

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I'm with you on this one Zorrow. I, too, prefer the "ugly" headstock on a Vector rather than the pointy one.

You should pester JohnnyThunders to sell you his white Vector with sustain block that use to belong to GusS. In case you don't know, GusS lives 20 minutes away from us :)

I offered he's not into the pickguard.

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If you don't like the pickguard, you can always take it off, fill the screw holes and have it repainted by a pro. I know a few guys here in Montreal who can easily do that.

JohnnyThunders is the baddest Vector I've seen. It would have been mine but...I was about a day too late to the game. :)

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If you don't like the pickguard, you can always take it off, fill the screw holes and have it repainted by a pro. I know a few guys here in Montreal who can easily do that.

JohnnyThunders is the baddest Vector I've seen. It would have been mine but...I was about a day too late to the game. :)

Ok, I'll consider that variant then. Just PM'ed JohnnyThunders. I hope being able to conclude a deal with him.

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I would say : just be patient, sooner or later one will pop up, I'll keep an eye out for the European market.

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If you don't like the pickguard, you can always take it off, fill the screw holes and have it repainted by a pro. I know a few guys here in Montreal who can easily do that.

JohnnyThunders is the baddest Vector I've seen. It would have been mine but...I was about a day too late to the game. :D

Ok, I'll consider that variant then. Just PM'ed JohnnyThunders. I hope being able to conclude a deal with him.

MAN!!! You got it BAD!!!! :D:P:o:P:D:)

Few years back I missed a Trans Yellow Vector on Evilbay. I'm STILL looking for another one of them. :P:P:P:P

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Here's just one possibility. It's a safe bet that the Vector neck joint is unlike any of the other models. Since most of the initial cutting is done on a CNC the choice to deny your request is simply a programing headache. Each component has it's own program and trying to punch in neck joint C with headstock A for one neck is not as easy as it sounds. Sometimes what seems like a reasonable request in reality is a production pain in the ass and profitable.

Or it could be the reason Kiz posted initially :) .

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Here's just one possibility. It's a safe bet that the Vector neck joint is unlike any of the other models. Since most of the initial cutting is done on a CNC the choice to deny your request is simply a programing headache. Each component has it's own program and trying to punch in neck joint C with headstock A for one neck is not as easy as it sounds. Sometimes what seems like a reasonable request in reality is a production pain in the ass and profitable.

Or it could be the reason Kiz posted initially :) .

I think the necks are still done without the CNC (on shapers).

I think there may be legal reasons why that exact old shape can't be used (perhaps an agreement or settlement with Gibson).

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I think the Vector with the 3x3 non pointy headstock looks cool. I'm not sure why it's called a "custom" order if it's not.

In their current methodology, it would be a custom order. Even if the neck joint was the same (bypassing stikes theory), it's not how they normally build a Vector and they would have to depart from what they normally do to put one together. Changing pickups is a "custom" order. Now whether they'll do it and how much it should cost is a whole different set of arguments that have periodically roared around this board.

Basically, if you get what you want for the price you're willing to pay, go for it. If not, lobby or get it somewhere else.

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I think there may be legal reasons why that exact old shape can't be used (perhaps an agreement or settlement with Gibson).

My thoughts exactly.

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I don't understand the, "if they won't do X, I'll go with another brand" mindset. NEWS FLASH, if they said no to a request they are ENCOURAGING you to go away with your request. Hamer is notorious for their quirky custom order issues. When business is slow they will build almost anything, Watson anyone? Remember when they would NEVER do boomerangs again? It's simple, they have to complete three guitars a day. As long as they have their quota, the answer is either NO or bend over.

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even if they would build a vector with the shitty headstock, it seems like a total waste of money to get something you will be able to find for 1/3 the price during the 3-4 months you're gonna wait for the custom order.

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even if they would build a vector with the shitty headstock, it seems like a total waste of money to get something you will be able to find for 1/3 the price during the 3-4 months you're gonna wait for the custom order.

3-4 months HAH

I doubt the turn around is that quick on a custom order.

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I think there may be legal reasons why that exact old shape can't be used (perhaps an agreement or settlement with Gibson).

My thoughts exactly.

Now, that's got me confused. Gibson forcing Hamer to make Vectors only if the headstocks looked like Vees? I would think the obverse.

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3-4 months HAH

I doubt the turn around is that quick on a custom order.

Exactly WHY they aren't going to do something that is going to cost them production time like that. They are extremely busy, and because of the demand, they are backlogged. There are dozens of customers who have already put deposits on custom orders now underway, dozens of stores waiting on stock items and they are not going to sacrifice their reputation to either churn out a few more guitars a day or stop the presses to build a jig/prototype of a headstock that one customer is asking about for a custom order.

You can hate that all you like, but the demand is there and as long as they keep the quality and options up where they are now, that's a good thing. They are not in business to please one or two people, although they do a good job of at least considering these requests. If they lose one or two customers who are frustrated by their custom order policies, well, that's very unfortunate, and not likely their intent. If they turn off hundreds or thousands of potential customers because of one bad review, that would be far worse.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...

I'm no Hamer apologist - I've been trying to get what in my mind is a simple order done for many years. I understand that they need to judge each case on its merits in light of their goal looking forward. I appreciate that, and I'm not going to run off crying every time they won't build me exactly what I want. The custom orders I have placed have all exceeded my expectations by such a significant degree that I have NO complaints nor will I bitch about not being able to get my ultimate dream Hamer made.

Think about this. If you want a Santana Headstock on a PRS 24, be prepared to pony up an extra $5-$7k JUST for that change. They literally have the necks stacked floor to ceiling these days, so could easily pull one out of any rack and put it into place - no muss, no fuss. That, however will not happen. You need to go Private Stock and pony up the big bucks for something that minor. Rickenbacker will all but tell you to F-yourself (I'm not sure they haven't told people that already!), and their wait time for a standard production model of decent, but not Hamer, quality is over 18months currently. Want a different headstock or option on a Gibson? Try it and see how far you get. Is all this fair? I don't know. It's not always about an individual consumer in a business. Instead of getting mad at a company for not agreeing to your particular wish, either look to another builder or be a little patient and sleuth out the used market. There are HUNDREDS of those Vectors out there - they are not that rare, despite their limited production cycle. Not as common as a Special, but they turn up on a regular basis and have consistently for the last 10 years easily.

Sorry for the long post, guys. Maybe this should be somehow morphed into a FAQ, because it comes up about 10 times a year about something or other! :)

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Think about this. If you want a Santana Headstock on a PRS 24, be prepared to pony up an extra $5-$7k JUST for that change. They literally have the necks stacked floor to ceiling these days, so could easily pull one out of any rack and put it into place - no muss, no fuss.

Santana guitars have a 24.5" scale length as opposed to the 25" scale length of their CU and CE 24's, so they couldn't just throw a Santana neck on one of those without screwing up the intonation could they? At any rate, I agree with the rest of your post. I guess I'm just lucky Hamer didn't have any trouble with the few custom things I wanted on my Studio (which only took 4 months to build; I guess the wait time has ballooned somewhat since then).

Anyway, the amount of money and time you would spend on buying a used "ugly vector" and then customizing it to suit your needs seems like it would be alot less than trying to order one from Hamer or anywhere else. Plus, with a used one, you could make sure it sounded and felt right before you started going to town on it (not always a given with a custom order).

-Austin

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I think there may be legal reasons why that exact old shape can't be used (perhaps an agreement or settlement with Gibson).

My thoughts exactly.

Now, that's got me confused. Gibson forcing Hamer to make Vectors only if the headstocks looked like Vees? I would think the obverse.

IIRC, there was a settlement in the early 90's between Gibson and some other companies (Hamer, Heritage, maybe others). I believe the Hamer 3 x 3 headstock on the Specials, Sunburst Archtops (Studios), etc was slightly changed as part of that. I'm talking about the exact headstock shape of the early 80's Vectors and Specials. I have no idea why Hamer wouldn't put their current 3 x 3 Studio headstock on a Vector. Unless they have made some big changes to the way they build their necks it would be an easy switch. My guess is that someone at Hamer doesn't like the look.

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