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PSA: TRAINWRECK FS


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Someone on The Geigh Page (TGP) will scoop that up. Between the Little Penis Forum (LPF) and that one, I'm convinced there's a small group of collectors who conspire to up prices of things they collect or like (ie, "Timbuckers") by specifically hyping them to their cohorts. Thus we have $42,500 "amps" and $700 "pickups" made by some guy in his garage with a waiting list. Not too mention side businesses removing the "truss rod condoms" in current LP Historics to enhance the tone.

I call bullshit....

This was highly entertaining.

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Why are these so expensive?
Why are vintage strats and LP's so expensive? Hell, why are 4-digit Standards so expensive? I wouldn't buy any of that stuff at current prices unless I had more money than I know what to do with, but apparently there are plenty of people who have exactly that kind of money and if they want to spend it on that, well they're no dumber than anyone else spending money on what is IMO stupid bullshit (and the list of stuff that falls in that category is virtually limitless :ph34r:).

-Austin

I KNOW why that stuff is so expensive, and whether or not you'd pay x-amount for any of it is not the question. I really don't think I need to list the reasons why vintage Strats, Les Pauls and even 4 digit Standards continue to appreciate year after year. That is all not debatable.

I asked why these amps command the prices they do.

FWIW, those amps were $850-$1500 new, so , like the '59 Les Paul, it has become legendary and so has the asking price.

HOW have they become legendary?

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Ding ding ding!!!

PF with the swish!

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Why are these so expensive?
Why are vintage strats and LP's so expensive? Hell, why are 4-digit Standards so expensive? I wouldn't buy any of that stuff at current prices unless I had more money than I know what to do with, but apparently there are plenty of people who have exactly that kind of money and if they want to spend it on that, well they're no dumber than anyone else spending money on what is IMO stupid bullshit (and the list of stuff that falls in that category is virtually limitless :ph34r:).

-Austin

I KNOW why that stuff is so expensive, and whether or not you'd pay x-amount for any of it is not the question. I really don't think I need to list the reasons why vintage Strats, Les Pauls and even 4 digit Standards continue to appreciate year after year. That is all not debatable.

I asked why these amps command the prices they do.

FWIW, those amps were $850-$1500 new, so , like the '59 Les Paul, it has become legendary and so has the asking price.

HOW have they become legendary?

1. Ken is dead.

2. He didn't make many.

3. He got/gets lots of props from other amp builders.

4. Booteek message board chatter, see Jaye's hillarious post.

5. Brad Paisley paid a shit ton for one recently so return to point 4.

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HOW have they become legendary?

Now that's a good question. For ampheads, like me, Ken Fischer = Major Deity. For others, it's more word of mouth than anything else. Ken made one for himself named after his grandma, but sent it to Billy Gibbons to demo. La Grange-man refused to send it back cause he just had to have it. Ken eventually relented. Brad Paisley just got a Trainwreck Liverpool. Unlike any other amp he has, if he takes it on tour, it get's it's own bus seat.

BTW, he made less than 100 over the years.

If I had the spare change, I'd snap it up over any other piece of gear for the same amount. Not that that's gonna happen anytime soon.

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Ding ding ding!!!

PF with the swish!

Well, maybe. Maybe not.

I know how these things catch fire, but what is the "tipping point"? What started the ball rolling?

There has to be some reason (like the legendary players and recordings that involve vintage Strats and Pauls), or you can attribute the whole mess to the Internet, a la Jaye's post.

If the latter is the case, we need to shut down TGP and LPF.

HOW have they become legendary?
1. Ken is dead.

2. He didn't make many.

3. He got/gets lots of props from other amp builders.

4. Booteek message board chatter, see Jaye's hillarious post.

5. Brad Paisley paid a shit ton for one recently so return to point 4.

Brad paid a shit ton because they were already worth a shit ton, but something got the price up there before he paid it.

Point being, we all hear talk about booteek this-and-that on these boards, but nothing spirals out of control like this. This is much worse than a $9000 Stevens guitar, $700 Timbuckers, or anything else for that matter. Even your much maligned $10,000 PAFs are affordable in comparison. After all, they are from the uber expensive Gibsons already mentioned.

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I long ago decided that if I can't find a way to sound good through good quality "production" hardware then I shouldn't be playing anyway.

None of the famous users of Trainwrecks or Dumbles became famous because of those amps, they already had steller tone and chops before then. For those people, a TW or Dumble maybe gave them just that little extra that they could really make use of.

I have a long way to go before I even learn how to extract every last bit of performance from any of my Mesa Marks.

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They were already in the 25-28k range -before- Ken died. I think the later ones he made he charged no more than 5k, but that was the last few when his health was bad. I could prattle on about why imho, of ALL the guitars and amps that are obscenely expensive, this one is actually worth it.

I'd be interested to find out how it took the course from 5k to 25k. It didn't just jump up, but there was a 10 year period from when his production effectively halted and his death. Understand some folks were still on his wait list until the end, hoping they'd get one eventually.

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There's no doubt that Internet hype plays a huge role in these things. I don't mean to demean the Trainwrecks--they probably do sound great. But so does a $1500 Reinhardt, or a Crate P.O.S. in the right hands.

Hell, I'm just a hack who buys crap that looks cool so what do I know anyway? :ph34r:

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When it comes to figuring out why people pay what they pay for crap, I think it's a waste of time. Why do people pay so much for rocks in the ground, or old stamps, or umbrella stands? The only real answer, is that they want to. The extent of their desire wrestles with the extent of the supply of that particular piece of crap, and presto bango, you've got your price.

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Even your much maligned $10,000 PAFs are affordable in comparison. After all, they are from the uber expensive Gibsons already mentioned.

You just had to bring those up didn't you! :ph34r:

.

Hell, I'm just a hack who buys crap that looks cool so what do I know anyway? ;)

Me too. Speaking of "the look" those Trainwrecks may sound great but damn if they aint UGLEEE.

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HOW have they become legendary?

IIRC Guitar Player (back when they actually did good gear reviews) had an amp shootout of a bunch of uber-booteeek stuff at the time. This was back in the late 80's early 90's IIRC. The big players were THD, Kendrick, VHT, Matchless, and a few other I can't recall. They all got blown away by the Trainwreck. While that might not be the only reason for the status skyrocket, it sure as hell contributed. I had never heard of THD, Kendrick, VHT or Matchless at the time but I made it a point to get my ass to Venimanns(sp?) music in DC to check out the VHTs. I wound up walking out with a VHT Pittbull 2x12 that they raved about. Turns out they were right on the money with their evaluation.

I used to love it when the blasted a piece of gear for being a POS. They wound up sinking Bedrock amps. After they slagged his amp he had a fit and wrote them a scathing letter. They turned around and published his letter and made him look like a complete ass.

Listen to that clip on Youtube...I can't think of many amps that are that touch sensitive. Would I pay 40K? Not a chance...but I understand why some people would.

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For your viewing and listening enjoyment...

Don't take this in a bad way, but what exactly does that video prove? The tones that he's getting out of that guitar and amp are nice but, I'm sure there are a ton of amps that can sound just as good, if not better, at a fraction of the cost.

It wasn't meant to prove anything, bro-seph... ;)

After reading this thread I researched the amp because I knew next to nothing about them.

In the process I found the entertaining video clip and just thought I would share it with everyone.

That's all there was to it. You're absolutely right, great tone can be had for a lot less investment... :ph34r:

Hey Crowth145,

Sorry if I came off as if I were challenging you. It wasn't my intention at all. So many guys on TGP have posted that video and I've always thought "big whoop". Nothing overly special in my opinion.

My apolgies if I came off as a prick.

Cheers!

Nick

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For your viewing and listening enjoyment...

You'd figure a guy who could afford a '59 Les Paul and that amp could afford to pay a little more for production values on his video!

:ph34r:;)

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For your viewing and listening enjoyment...

You'd figure a guy who could afford a '59 Les Paul and that amp could afford to pay a little more for production values on his video!

;):D

Perhaps a metronome too? :ph34r:

I kid...because I'm jealous. ;)

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For your viewing and listening enjoyment...

Don't take this in a bad way, but what exactly does that video prove? The tones that he's getting out of that guitar and amp are nice but, I'm sure there are a ton of amps that can sound just as good, if not better, at a fraction of the cost.

It wasn't meant to prove anything, bro-seph... :o

After reading this thread I researched the amp because I knew next to nothing about them.

In the process I found the entertaining video clip and just thought I would share it with everyone.

That's all there was to it. You're absolutely right, great tone can be had for a lot less investment... ;)

Hey Crowth145,

Sorry if I came off as if I were challenging you. It wasn't my intention at all. So many guys on TGP have posted that video and I've always thought "big whoop". Nothing overly special in my opinion.

My apolgies if I came off as a prick.

Cheers!

Nick

No worries, it's cool... ;)

I quit goin' over to TGP a while back because the admin kept dropping my access for no reason and I got tired of resetting. Must have me mistaken for one of the spammers he's had problems with. So that's probably why I hadn't become familiar with that particular clip yet.

I'm trying to catch up after taking a good 15 years off of paying much attention to what's goin' on in the industry, and especially where gear is concerned. These HFC messageboards are an excellent place to hang out and try to make up for lost time. I greatly appreciate how everyone has put up with me so far... :o

I'll never forget the day back in the very early '80s that I made yet another casual visit to that little hole-in-the-wall of a guitar shop in central Phoenix known as "Bizzare Guitar". Bob Turner (long-haired husky Vietnam veteran, entrepreneur, Pantera driver and guitar shop owner) greeted me as I walked in the door and insisted I come over and get a load of a sight he said I'd likely never seen and will never see again. All around him on the floor were old guitar cases sitting open with their guitars in plain view. "Well, whataya think kid?". Here were at least a half-dozen '59 LPs, two or three '58 Vs, and an original '58 Explorer in what appeared to be incredibly good shape. Noticing how much I was ogling the explorer he actually let me lift her up out of "bed" and briefly check her out. Bob said something about my just missing a famous guitar player/collector that had been in to see him that day, but I wasn't paying as much attention as I should have been or I might have remembered if he said who it was (Rick?) BTW, Bob had a nice four-digit Standard hangin' in his shop on occasion back in those days, but I don't remember it being for sale. That was the guitar he said he liked playing in his band... :D

Bob said that 23-year-old explorer was worth $5k 27 years ago, I'd hate to think what it would be worth now... and the Vs... and all of those awsome looking LPs... all together they would have to be valued over $3M today.

Now, how 'bout that $40k amp?... PSA??... For who???... :ph34r:;):P

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For your viewing and listening enjoyment...

You'd figure a guy who could afford a '59 Les Paul and that amp could afford to pay a little more for production values on his video!

:ph34r:;)

Well he bought the amp new as a "second" for $850, the '59 he bought used when that's all it was...a used guitar..I think he said he paid like $1700 for that. Anyhow, he has had that gear for years when it wasn't a big deal to buy it.

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For your viewing and listening enjoyment...

You'd figure a guy who could afford a '59 Les Paul and that amp could afford to pay a little more for production values on his video!

:ph34r:;)

Well he bought the amp new as a "second" for $850, the '59 he bought used when that's all it was...a used guitar..I think he said he paid like $1700 for that. Anyhow, he has had that gear for years when it wasn't a big deal to buy it.

Nah, I was just goofing around, wasn't meant to be a personal knock on him.

One thing for sure if I had bought the stuff back in the day, it would be really damm hard to keep on to it at what they are worth now. I'd love to have that kinda gear, but you could literally sell those off and buy a house.

Only a guitarist would understand why it would be a tough decision:

An "old" guitar made in the 50s vs. a House

"Normal" people would think we're insane! (or at least me anyway, most of you cats are probably more fiscally responsable than me)

edited to add "cats" WTF, for a moment I turned into a 60s jazz fan for some odd reason.

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Someone on The Geigh Page (TGP) will scoop that up. Between the Little Penis Forum (LPF) and that one, I'm convinced there's a small group of collectors who conspire to up prices of things they collect or like (ie, "Timbuckers") by specifically hyping them to their cohorts. Thus we have $42,500 "amps" and $700 "pickups" made by some guy in his garage with a waiting list. Not too mention side businesses removing the "truss rod condoms" in current LP Historics to enhance the tone.

I call bullshit....

I don;t know about truss rod removals and $40000+ amps but my Timbuckers are here to stay. I have one set and yes, they are THAT GOOD!!

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Supply & demand. Period.

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