Why not so much love for Hamer on the bay and TGP

[Hgb5000]

I am still amazed at how often I will see Hamers go for so much less than a bolt-on strat style guitar or even a Partscaster that someone assembled in their basement from various suppliers.

Tonight, I watched a beautiful Hamer Monaco Elite sell for less than $800.00 on ebay, while there are scores of bolt-on guitars of all types on TGP that seem to sell for more than $1,000.00, much more for the more respected builders. (I already have a Superpro and I had set $750 as my limit on the Elite - now I regret not bidding a little higher.)

Although I have never had the pleasure to actually play a Tom Anderson, Suhr, Grosh, etc., I am sure they build really great guitars, but Hamer also seems to consistently build very good guitars and just doesn't always seem to get the same street cred. On Harmony Central, you may read some complaints about the SD pickups in certain Hamer models, but Hamers always score huge numbers overall and especially on the build quality and set-up direct from the factory.

Why do you think Hamer doesn't seem to carry the mystique of certain other names (many of which are much newer in the business)?

[DavidE]

That was a Monaco Elite Mahogany. Just not too popular. People want the maple tops. Still, a steal.

[Pieman]

OR - both this weekend -

The Artist Mahogany like the 25th Anniversary but w p90s, that went for less than $700 shipped - or about what a P90 Special might go for.

Or the Artist Custom for $930 shipped. I paid $1250 in 2006 and it was a good deal then.

This is a buyer's market like we have never seen.

[bubs_42]

That was a Monaco Elite Mahogany. Just not too popular. People want the maple tops. Still, a steal.

I agree, but I was still fighting that one with all I had.

[zenmindbeginner]

I have no earthly idea how long a company can sell $4000 guitars that lose half of their value as soon as the owner leaves the store with it. I may be exaggerating, but the depreciation that Hamers go through is enormous and leaves one absolutely slack jawed.

I think that Hamer just never had a good roster of players that would endorse their instruments. No offense to Rick Nielson, but he is not a first rate guitar player. Jack Blades played the hell out of Hamers but he is a lousy bass player. Martin Barre and Jeff Watson are amazing guitar players but they never really broke out into the world of "guitar gods". Rick is a guitar god, but he is more known for his song writing, stage persona and wild ass guitar collection courtesy of Hamer. And by the way, Hamer did everything right with Rick Nielson marketing wise in my opinion, it was their finest effort.

Rick Savage and Kip Winger are the absolute bottom of the barrel when it comes to the top echelon of bass players. No offense to Def Leppard fans, I love pre-Hysteria Def Leppard a whole lot (Rick Savage's playing sold millions of albums and he is partly responsible for the birth of thousands of children and plus, didn't he use the whammy on his Blitz bass on Pyromania? How cool is that?).

It just leads one back to the question in the OP of "why is there not much love for Hamers out there"? I want to believe that it was a marketing problem, but maybe we are all just biased and Hamers aren't as awesome as we think that they are?

I have been always puzzled as to why Hamer guitars appealed to only a small portion of the electric guitar players out there. I mean, I absolutely love them, but maybe I have developed an attachment to the Hamer mystique? I doubt it because every rational part of me knows that Hamer makes breathtakingly amazing electric guitars.

As a buyer, I love the low prices, but I am not really getting a good deal whenever I buy a cheap USA made Hamer, I am really just buying a guitar that has experienced a great amount of depreciation..

[Feynman]

I think the logo and headstock shape have an impact.

And the import line. And the 80s.

And the fact that I can't seem to go anywhere to try out a new USA Hamer.

I think I read somewhere someone's theory that Hamer owned the early boutique market, but that they changed their direction/focus just in time to let PRS swoop in and take it away.

Obviously I don't know nuthin about nuthin, so as always my opinion may not even be worth these electrons.

I do know quite a few guitarists, and I have only been able to convert one of them into a Hamer appreciator. I have heard more than once that "Hamer used to be good back when they still made them in the USA."

I haven't picked up a less than excellent USA Hamer. They seem to be consistently superb.

In summary - ugly headstock.

[landon w]

uglier than an LP or Fender? ...............how is that possible

I feel the same as far as the inaccessability. People go to sam ash or guitar center and see only the imports, and Ill put money on the fact that 75% of people who HAVE heard of Hamer, dont realize the USA's even exist

[GaryT]

Conditioning and Learned Behavior. It really has NOTHING to do with the quality of the guitars, the headstock shape etc .

Children walk into a music shop for their first guitar and immediatly want a Fender/Gibson. I know it happened to me when I was a kid, and I never played a Fender?

I've seen Moms come in "alone" to buy their child a guitar. All they know is Fender, Gibson.

[Disturber]

I think the logo and headstock shape have an impact.

I think I read somewhere someone's theory that Hamer owned the early boutique market, but that they changed their direction/focus just in time to let PRS swoop in and take it away.

In summary - ugly headstock.

And PRS don't have an ugly headstock? It's looks like it's a size to small for their guitars. Butt ugly if you ask me.

The Hamer headstock is as stylish as the gibby, imho.

[gorch]

Conditioning and Learned Behavior. It really has NOTHING to do with the quality of the guitars, the headstock shape etc .

Children walk into a music shop for their first guitar and immediatly want a Fender/Gibson. I know it happened to me when I was a kid, and I never played a Fender?

I've seen Moms come in "alone" to buy their child a guitar. All they know is Fender, Gibson.

I totally agree, it's the name that doesn't have this famous coat. People who know Hamer know and speak about their excellence. But, who actually knows about Hamer? The crowd is just to small for my opinion. See it for Germany. It is a leading industrial country. Try to find a distributor over here, impossible. Fenders, Gibsons, Epiphones etc. are everywhere. It is getting a little better since Fender aquired Kaman with Hamer included. Surprisingly, Hamer is not a noted brand on the German Fender Homepage until today, although there is space left on the page.

http://fender.de/products/otherbrands/

For the XT-Series, I believe they open doors that have never been open before. For the first time young people are able to afford Hamer guitars and build up notion over them. However, it will take another generation for a breakthrough assumed the brand continues to be strongly marketed this way.

Finally, look at the serial numbers. There were only 55.000 guitars ever built over a period of 35 years. Where do you expect to find them (- in the HFC family of course :-) -)? The XT-Series numbers already have 6 digits. The brand grows.

[mc2]

The buying public, in general, is stupid and wants what it sees in the hands of it's idols on TV. It might be the biggest turd in the world but if "Robbie Rock Star" is playing it, they want it.

Hamer went that route largely in the 80s with a lot of top artists. Not so much now but I think that also fits Hamer's brand focus. They don't seem to want to sell their US models to the masses...and they do not produce enough to do that anyway. If you notice, many of their 80s heyday models ARE the ones that they have reissued as imports, to sell to the kids at lower prices.

Perhaps Fender will dump marketing dollars into Hamer USA to push it more and try and grab some of the PRS,e tc. market share. Who knows what the plan is at present? US Hamers ARE pretty expensive for US dealers to stock without the sell-thru demand. As mentioned above, if buyers cannot find US Hamers to try out, it becomes a harder sell. Fender may resort to forcing its dealers to carry a certain dollar amount of Hamers to keep the Fender line...but, then again, it may come down to just imports. I would guess that alot of the sifting thru Fender/Kaman/Hamer dealers went on this past year and they have some "plan" but that the crap economy has also thrown a monkey wrench into making major changes.

Maybe I'm a distant relative of the late Bill Schultz, ex-head of Fender because we certainly share the same tastes. My main bass amps for decades were SUNN and SWR and my basses/guitars largely Kubicki and Hamer. They sure didn't help the first three brands.....hopefully Hamer may fare better since Schultz is no longer of this world.

[Hgb5000]

But how do you explain that half of the gear page posts involve high priced "Nash" type guitars. Everyone wants a Nash, k-line, Rice, etc. I have seen a few new Hamers in stores, I have never seen any of those brands in any music store in my area.

[landon w]

but lets be honest with each other anyway gentlemen, do we really want it to be a highly recognized brand? I dont, leave that to the imports.

As soon as the custom shop gets more loaded than they are, you are going to end up with another GIB, PRS story, and the guitars will go to SHIT and wont have the quality or mystique.

I, for one, enjoy big privy to a great guitar that I can be proud to own, and who cares if anyone knows what im playing...............I dont need my c@ck stroked because of what my headstock has written on it.

As soon as i hear someone say, "I know this guy who has 3 LP's, this dude can play" I want to stop talking to that person, turn around and walk away.........they obviously do not have a clue.

I want Hamer to be successful, but, lets not rush in an era of ruin on them just yet

[Steve Haynie]

Hamer was never made into a collectible brand when everyone became a vintage guitar expert in the 90's. Everyone chased after old Gibsons and Fenders first. PRS never had an import line and they marketed their "Ten Tops" quite well. Back then everyone wanted an investment guitar. Now PRS does imports, but they got in before the bell.

Try to buy a 70's Standard or Sunburst and you find that there is some love-- in the form of big bucks. In the for sale forum here there are people drooling over two recent Standards and not complaining about the price, just the lack of funds.

eBay is a matter of timing. There are periods of high and low prices for some items. We have seen set neck Chaparrals bring over $1000 for a brief time.

[Devnor]

TGP? You mean the Dumble page?

Hamers are a tough sell. Highest offer I got on my Earthen Studio was $1500...that's a sin. I believe most people dont want Studios or Explorers. The Tally & Monaco, while they are great playing & sounding guitars, fail miserably in the appearance dept. Dean fans take the same hits...My totally blinged out Custom ML didnt bring 2k on three different auctions.

[harryjmic]

The only way I can see this changing is with a long successful run of young artist endorsements, people need to know the company even exists. Right now, I get, "So you have a hammer, who makes those?"

Every time I see an up and coming guitar player who is using something else, by the time he gets to teh big time he's using either a Gibson or Fender, it makes no difference what they were using earlier because the corporate tentacles got hold of them. Case in point, Johnny Lang, I think he was using Schecter tele's then switched to Fender's soon after.

[MCChris]

"Worth" and "market value" are two different things. Clearly many Hamers are worth a couple grand or more based on quality of materials and workmanship, but rarely do they fetch that much on the used market.

If you buy a new Hamer and to you it's worth every penny you paid for it, perfect! If you buy a new Hamer with resale value in mind, well, you probably shouldn't buy a new Hamer.

[atquinn]

"Worth" and "market value" are two different things. Clearly many Hamers are worth a couple grand or more based on quality of materials and workmanship, but rarely do they fetch that much on the used market.

If you buy a new Hamer and to you it's worth every penny you paid for it, perfect! If you buy a new Hamer with resale value in mind, well, you probably shouldn't buy a new Hamer.

[/thread]

[Guest pirateflynn]

"Worth" and "market value" are two different things. Clearly many Hamers are worth a couple grand or more based on quality of materials and workmanship, but rarely do they fetch that much on the used market.

If you buy a new Hamer and to you it's worth every penny you paid for it, perfect! If you buy a new Hamer with resale value in mind, well, you probably shouldn't buy a new Hamer.

Exactly.

[Jakeboy]

I nearly bought that Mon Elite Mahog last night too....but I wasn't sure of the color if it was Jazzburst or tobacco..the owner didn't know...

I want one vintage orange...The Hamer lack of love is weird....these guitars are phenomenal...yet go for so little.

Mindset & advertising.

[BubbaVO]

"Worth" and "market value" are two different things. Clearly many Hamers are worth a couple grand or more based on quality of materials and workmanship, but rarely do they fetch that much on the used market.

If you buy a new Hamer and to you it's worth every penny you paid for it, perfect! If you buy a new Hamer with resale value in mind, well, you probably shouldn't buy a new Hamer.

+1

Arguably, guitar speculation has inflated the monetary value of older instruments so that they are now priced out of the hands of players. Mediocre samples of Gibsons and Fenders can cost you quite a bit. I'm grateful that hasn't happened to Hamer. As a result, I've been able to explore different styles of guitars that I probably wouldn't have otherwise.

[Scooter]

In summary - ugly headstock.

+1 on the headstock argument. (Which is supported by the fact that Standards and Cali's, etc. consistently fetch a higher price.)

[MCChris]

In summary - ugly headstock.

+1 on the headstock argument. (Which is supported by the fact that Standards and Cali's, etc. consistently fetch a higher price.)

How do you explain the prices of Tyler guitars then? That's unquestionably the ugliest headstock in the biz (although I find it oddly appealing for that exact reason).

There was a period in the late '80s/early '90s where Hamer's 3+3 headstocks looked like barely crafted blanks, but I don't think that's the case anymore.

[humfree]

I do not at all agree with the headstock theory for poor resale value.

In California, you just don't see them. I found a store in the mid-nineties that actually carried them. They had at least 3, and at most 6 Hamers in store at one time and they sold pretty fast. Prices were reasonable back then - I think I paid $750 for my Special with case. Nowadays, around these parts, if you can find a dealer, they are loaded with Korean models. American made are special order only. I visited a store in Seattle some time ago that advertised themselves as 'Hamer Dealers'. They had one Standard at the top of their wall that they wouldn't take down unless you convinced them you were a serious buyer.

There was also this stigma that they were Floyd equipped metal guitars that I think still lingers a bit. You don't see Robben Ford with one, or Brent Mason types milking tone from a Hamer - you see Tom Dumont, Rick Nielsen and Night Ranger. Rick Nielsen is a great guy, but would you buy a guitar from a guy with a propeller on his head?

You can't reduce Hamers to their headstock and point to it as the reason they don't sell like PRS. For me, if I am going to drop some serious coin on a guitar, I would like to play a few first. And, at least around here, you have to find one before you can play it.

Maybe some things are just supposed to remain a mystery. Just enjoy one of the best resale deals out there and know in your heart, they are worth WAAAY MORE!

[zenmindbeginner]

In California, you just don't see them. I found a store in the mid-nineties that actually carried them. They had at least 3, and at most 6 Hamers in store at one time and they sold pretty fast. Prices were reasonable back then - I think I paid $750 for my Special with case. Nowadays, around these parts, if you can find a dealer, they are loaded with Korean models. American made are special order only. I visited a store in Seattle some time ago that advertised themselves as 'Hamer Dealers'. They had one Standard at the top of their wall that they wouldn't take down unless you convinced them you were a serious buyer.

I had no idea how hard it was to find a Hamer dealer! I grew up in the Arlington Heights area of Illinois where the original Hamer factory was and Hamer guitars were in just about every music store around. We were definitely Hamer spoiled in the Northwest burbs. Hell, the store that I bought my first Hamer had several Scarabs, Scepters, and Blitz guitars on the wall. The Sound Post had a few Specials and a Standard or two at all times on the floor... they were definitely part of my youth.

The 90's were kind of rough for Hamer with the new factory and Jol's departure I guess... I have no idea what was going on between the Hamer and Kaman management, maybe there was some conflicts creatively. The decision to make imports was a HORRIBLE one in my opinion.