I've posted about this before and its nothing that HFC members do not already know, but I am again amazed at the lukewarm reception that used Hamers seem to receive. A member of the HFC has had their beautiful Talladega for sale on the Gear Page for $1,800.00 for days and days. This week, a sweet looking Danocaster Tele was listed and sold for about $1,650 within hours with one or two backup buyers in the waiting. The thread for the Danocaster continued for a day after the sale with people expressing remorse for missing the sale. I have never played a Danocaster, and from looks and what I have read they seem like fine T and S style guitars, so I am in no way bashing that brand. But I've owned six USA Hamers and know the quality to be as good as anything anywhere so it amazes me to see a $1,650 Danocaster fly off the shelf while Tally priced down to $1,800 sits and sits on the shelf.
Another sign of "no love" for Hamers
- Thread starter Hgb5000
- Start date
You can have a guy play a Hamer that sounds better, plays better, feels better, looks better.
He'll still pick the bolt on Fender guitar or a Gibby.
Why?
Maybe it's that the older name brands are so burned into people's subconcious that they feel safe with them, even though they know the Hamer is better?
I don't know, I'm just baffled by that.
He'll still pick the bolt on Fender guitar or a Gibby.
Why?
Maybe it's that the older name brands are so burned into people's subconcious that they feel safe with them, even though they know the Hamer is better?
I don't know, I'm just baffled by that.
Yep. This ain't to bash PRS as they are fine guitars but Paul Reed Smith has HAMMERED (no pun intended) a single consistent message for 20+ years: quality and innovation and fancy tops. Over and over and over. Given more years, Hamer has been your Gibson copy/shred/anything goes/affordable/elite/Koeran/Chinese/USA/vintage modern/Fedner copy/handmade/mass consumption/insert message here company. No focus, no brand, inconsistent message.
Great guitars.
Great guitars.
Hamer's are still under the radar for people who haven't tried them. I don't know why they don't have a better reputation with the general guitar buying public. Like McChris said, maybe it's the bad marketing that's to blame.
The upshot is that, if you buy used, a Hamer is a great deal. On the flipside, the lack of "brand name" recongnition sure sucks if you want to sell a Hamer that you bought brand new.
Funny, ran into an old friend from high school at an open mic show.
Got around to talking gear, and told him I basically played USA Reverends, and Hamers.
When I mentioned Hamers, he incredulously asked why???
I said what do you mean?
Long story short, he thinks Hamers are pointy metal shredder guitars.
I think this is Hamers biggest problem.
From a marketing point of view, Hamer never escaped or marketed themselves out of the 80s.
Got around to talking gear, and told him I basically played USA Reverends, and Hamers.
When I mentioned Hamers, he incredulously asked why???
I said what do you mean?
Long story short, he thinks Hamers are pointy metal shredder guitars.
I think this is Hamers biggest problem.
From a marketing point of view, Hamer never escaped or marketed themselves out of the 80s.
Reliced T and S style guitars are all the rage and on the TGP some gear obtains mystique beyond what may be deserved. Of course Hamer could be marketed better. Hamer's low resale hurts it's quality image, and a lot of gear flippers don't want to lose a bunch of $$. Couple that with the fact that it is getting harder to walk into a shop and play a few different examples. There is also a whole group of people who will admit that Hamer is as good or better than what they are playing but they feel playing a LP or a Strat etc gives them more credibility as a player. For many it's not how well you play but what you play.
ArnieZ
ArnieZ
I'm affraid that the custom only move just made by Hamer will sunk it even further into oblivion...
i understand and respect the philosophy behind the construction quality standards of Hamers -and for me, they are better than any new Gibson, anytime-
But they will be loosing a big chunk of marketing by doing so.
I wish they had a more streamline, mass produced shop, just for the new generation of guitar players out there
If they only aiming for babyboomers, they won't be selling for long, so, for me it looks like a slow and decaying death...
i wonder how many American shops can mass produce here in North America...it doesn't have to be a big production or anything, but it needs to be something more affordable, so the name will be more visible.
I mean, the same mission that occupied them when they were producing in the 80s and 90s...
i know i'm not very clear, but can you get my point??
i understand and respect the philosophy behind the construction quality standards of Hamers -and for me, they are better than any new Gibson, anytime-
But they will be loosing a big chunk of marketing by doing so.
I wish they had a more streamline, mass produced shop, just for the new generation of guitar players out there
If they only aiming for babyboomers, they won't be selling for long, so, for me it looks like a slow and decaying death...
i wonder how many American shops can mass produce here in North America...it doesn't have to be a big production or anything, but it needs to be something more affordable, so the name will be more visible.
I mean, the same mission that occupied them when they were producing in the 80s and 90s...
i know i'm not very clear, but can you get my point??
The first guitars he built -- in 1975 -- were late-'50s Les Paul Special knock offs, just like the Hamer Special/Sunbursts...
Yeah.
He mentioned somewhere about Jol & Co. being an insiration.
Funny thing, back in 1987 I worked in a Sam Ash music store & met him. He was there with a "suit" guy promoting his guitars. He was in jeans and a plaid shirt. Very unassuming and quiet type. Nice guy though.
He mentioned somewhere about Jol & Co. being an insiration.
Funny thing, back in 1987 I worked in a Sam Ash music store & met him. He was there with a "suit" guy promoting his guitars. He was in jeans and a plaid shirt. Very unassuming and quiet type. Nice guy though.
I hear ya man... back in the eighties and early nineties a MIDDLE CLASS individual could afford to own a Hamer without absolutely KILLING his bank account or racking up his credit card.
Somewhere along the way, the corporate assholes that run the music gear industry decided that MIDDLE CLASS people were no longer welcome to buy their American made products.
What kind of an asshat company decides to only make guitars for the upper class?
I am middle class and would have to make a LOT more money to afford a $4000 guitar. I mean, if I drove a $40,000 car and had a half million dollar home, I could afford one right? How many fucking Americans can afford to drive a $40,000 car and have half million dollar homes? I certainly don't... I drive an economic Mazda and RENT my home.
In 1986 I managed to scrape up the money to buy my first USA Hamer when I was 13 years old. What fucking 13 year old can afford a $4000 guitar delivering newspapers today? Absolutely none.
Hamer's elitist attitude that they will only allow the wealthiest of Americans to purchase their guitars is downright WRONG! If they continue down this road, then they will have nobody to blame besides themselves.
Hamer's import line was an outright deplorable decision... I don't want a fucking Korean or Chinese guitar, I am an American and we have this AMAZING history of making the world's finest electric guitars HERE in our own country. It's sooooo fucking sad that Hamer has decided that only the wealthiest of people will be able to own their American made products.
Out and out elitism along with TONS of hubris = tragedy
^Seriously, this is one of the smartest posts about the subject I've ever read around.
BTW, not so long ago I tried two Dean Vees and they were just amazing --two big, sound WOW's! Therefore, I can live now with those headstocks, so it's maybe "time to get my wings"... /emoticons/default_cool.png
BTW, not so long ago I tried two Dean Vees and they were just amazing --two big, sound WOW's! Therefore, I can live now with those headstocks, so it's maybe "time to get my wings"... /emoticons/default_cool.png
I disagree. It's full of contradictions, the most glaring of which is the desire for cheap American-made products. Which do you want? Cheap or American made? The two don't typically go together.
Prices for most used early 80's Hamers are low (outside of the 4-digit Standards) - virtually nothing over $1K.
Late 80's Hamers are mostly shredders, mainly "out of fashion" and don't get much above $800 (outside of flame maple Californians and custom orders).
In the early 90's, Hamer made the Diablos and P90 Specials with a list price under $1K new - these guitars sell typically under their new list price.
In the late 90's, Hamer built the reissue Phantoms, 25th Anniversary model (which typically sold for $1k), Vanguard (silver sparkle P90 Artist). Not a lot of that sold for over $1500 new (outside of the flagship Standard Custom).
After 2000, Hamer started cranking up the list prices about 10% each year, and proclaimed themselves a "boutique" brand - witness the Designer series guitars, the Guru tours, and the Limited Editions all attempting to market the brand upscale. The used prices failed to follow upward much.
While I think that Hamer's current quality is better than ever, their previous products were too damn good and they cannot compete pricewise with the used Hamers out there for $1K and under (a new Artist Custom lists for $4300 - street price is about $3000, and you can cherry-pick a great used one under $1500). IMHO, that's why the stock models have to die - they can't build a cheaper guitar and nobody wants to pay and suffer the depreciation hit if they decide to flip it. Custom orders from knowledgeable buyers (who appreciate the craftsmanship and are willing to PAY FOR IT) are the only way to keep them in business.
With used prices (except for the really new models) routinely falling below $1K, the prices are about comparable to import guitars rather than US-built instruments and (to most people) get about the same respect as comparably-priced imports ("if they're so good, why are they so cheap?"). Most people still seem to think that Hamer died with the shred era, and haven't really seen much in the stores except used Hamers under $1K. Respect = resale value, and vice-versa. Hamer doesn't seem to do real well on either side of that equation.
If you like Hamers, play them. Their value as a well-built instrument exceeds their market value IMHO. If "respect" means that much to you, either pay more for Hamers or or go chase the current hip "brand du jour" from the Gear Page if you want to be "in the cool cat club" lol.
Late 80's Hamers are mostly shredders, mainly "out of fashion" and don't get much above $800 (outside of flame maple Californians and custom orders).
In the early 90's, Hamer made the Diablos and P90 Specials with a list price under $1K new - these guitars sell typically under their new list price.
In the late 90's, Hamer built the reissue Phantoms, 25th Anniversary model (which typically sold for $1k), Vanguard (silver sparkle P90 Artist). Not a lot of that sold for over $1500 new (outside of the flagship Standard Custom).
After 2000, Hamer started cranking up the list prices about 10% each year, and proclaimed themselves a "boutique" brand - witness the Designer series guitars, the Guru tours, and the Limited Editions all attempting to market the brand upscale. The used prices failed to follow upward much.
While I think that Hamer's current quality is better than ever, their previous products were too damn good and they cannot compete pricewise with the used Hamers out there for $1K and under (a new Artist Custom lists for $4300 - street price is about $3000, and you can cherry-pick a great used one under $1500). IMHO, that's why the stock models have to die - they can't build a cheaper guitar and nobody wants to pay and suffer the depreciation hit if they decide to flip it. Custom orders from knowledgeable buyers (who appreciate the craftsmanship and are willing to PAY FOR IT) are the only way to keep them in business.
With used prices (except for the really new models) routinely falling below $1K, the prices are about comparable to import guitars rather than US-built instruments and (to most people) get about the same respect as comparably-priced imports ("if they're so good, why are they so cheap?"). Most people still seem to think that Hamer died with the shred era, and haven't really seen much in the stores except used Hamers under $1K. Respect = resale value, and vice-versa. Hamer doesn't seem to do real well on either side of that equation.
If you like Hamers, play them. Their value as a well-built instrument exceeds their market value IMHO. If "respect" means that much to you, either pay more for Hamers or or go chase the current hip "brand du jour" from the Gear Page if you want to be "in the cool cat club" lol.
As far as Hamer's direction, I think it's pretty clear. I have spoken to Jol about this numerous times over the last several years. The time and effort required to make a guitar of the quality that is Hamer, doesn't allow lower priced guitars. Jol does not want to scarifice quality in materials or crafstmanship. The guitars start becoming profitable when the nicer appointments are added. This increases the value of the guitars disproportionally to the added labor costs. Any viable business would choose to sell product that is more vs less profitable if they can.
ArnieZ
ArnieZ
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That is not necessary. Just get rid of whatever people find ugly in them, and they will sell.