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Public Service Announcement - MannMade Products


BadgerDave

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As those of you who have been following the progress of the sparkley Stike-o-caster thread are aware, I've been having difficulty receiving a bridge I ordered from John Mann at MannMade USA.

I ordered one of these:

2010N-Vintage-Vibrato.jpg

from this website:

MannMade Website

in October, paying via PayPal.

Within a couple of days after ordering I received an e-mail from John promising to ship within 10 days. After a few weeks, I hadn't received the bridge and I sent a few e-mails. I then politely informed John that I was going to open a dispute with PayPal. I received a response, promising to ship if I didn't open the dispute. I waited until the last possible day before I would lose the right to open a dispute before initiating it. John's position now is that he will ship if I drop the dispute. My response is that I will drop the dispute the moment I have the bridge in my hands. Here's his last communication:

Dave

As stated previously, I would be happy to ship the bridge this week and will confirm with a USPS tracking #. I will pack the bridge, prepare it for shipment, give you the tracking #. Once you have the tracking #, I need you drop the dispute as resolved and re-instate payment.

Regards,

John Mann

Why do you suppose he wants me to drop the dispute before I have the bridge?

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Have Brian K. swing by and pick it up and send it to you.

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Maybe John, Will Boggs and that SnakeOil crook should partner up with Gene Baker?

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On the other hand, this demonstrates that PayPal does not always suck.

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Doesn't the dispute on Pay-Pal tie up his account for 30-days? Thats probly why he's looking to get the dispute dropped. There's more than likely other orders, and he can't access the funds on the account?

Not positive though I heard something to this effect.

I don't understand why he just didn't tell you what was going on, and save himself the aggrevation? Sounds like he didn't have them in stock or machined at the time. Regardless its a horrible way to do business.

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Not to play Devil's advocate ... but at this point because of the dispute he has not been paid for the bridge ( like a credit card charge back)... unfortunately I have see this first hand.... I think his terms sound acceptable.... considering the circumstances.

Do I think it should have been handled better ... absolutely.... From a manufacturing point of view: The second there is a problem or there is going to be a delay contact the customer... let them opt out if need be .. communication is the key here....

Hope it all works out....

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Don't drop the dispute. I don¨t remember for how long you can claim a dispute on paypal? Is it eight or twelve weeks or so? After that you are screwed.

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On the other hand, this demonstrates that PayPal does not always suck.

Sucks for the seller. Now he can't take an "ask about the status of your order and you lose your deposit and forfeit your place in line" stance and elevate himself to rarified air reserved for the likes of Howard Dumble.

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Couldn't find anything here? Looks like the Gotoh Low Friction might do, or the Wilkinson/Gotoh with locking saddles from Stew-Mac.

3534_1lg.jpg

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I just thought of a way to eliminate the impasse, but you have to make sure Mann agrees to these terms:

1) Drop the PayPal dispute

2) Cancel the order with the understanding that you don't lose your place in the order/shipping queue.

3) Re-order the bridge via PayPal. This gives him payment in advance for the order and restarts the clock on PayPal protection for you order in case you have to file a dispute again later.

With these safeguards established, I'd give him a week to get it to you; otherwise file a new PayPal dispute.

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I just thought of a way to eliminate the impasse, but you have to make sure Mann agrees to these terms:

1) Drop the PayPal dispute

2) Cancel the order with the understanding that you don't lose your place in the order/shipping queue.

3) Re-order the bridge via PayPal. This gives him payment in advance for the order and restarts the clock on PayPal protection for you order in case you have to file a dispute again later.

With these safeguards established, I'd give him a week to get it to you; otherwise file a new PayPal dispute.

Good idea, Johnny, except if I do as you suggest, he gets the money for my first order plus the money for my second order in advance, without shipping anything. If he never ships, I'm out the first payment because I dropped the dispute. I can dispute the second payment, but it will take another 45-60 days to resolve.

My main issue now is trust. I don't beleive he has any product to ship and he's just trying to to keep as much money as he can before PayPal shuts the door on his ability to bill. This was the Snake Oil endgame.

In the meantime, I've ordered one of these for 1/3 the price of the Mann bridge:

WVPCSBCR.jpg

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I just thought of a way to eliminate the impasse, but you have to make sure Mann agrees to these terms:

1) Drop the PayPal dispute

2) Cancel the order with the understanding that you don't lose your place in the order/shipping queue.

3) Re-order the bridge via PayPal. This gives him payment in advance for the order and restarts the clock on PayPal protection for you order in case you have to file a dispute again later.

With these safeguards established, I'd give him a week to get it to you; otherwise file a new PayPal dispute.

Good idea, Johnny, except if I do as you suggest, he gets the money for my first order plus the money for my second order in advance, without shipping anything. If he never ships, I'm out the first payment because I dropped the dispute. I can dispute the second payment, but it will take another 45-60 days to resolve.

My main issue now is trust. I don't beleive he has any product to ship and he's just trying to to keep as much money as he can before PayPal shuts the door on his ability to bill. This was the Snake Oil endgame.

In the meantime, I've ordered one of these for 1/3 the price of the Mann bridge:

WVPCSBCR.jpg

Whatcha got there, Dave?

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Not to play Devil's advocate ... but at this point because of the dispute he has not been paid for the bridge ( like a credit card charge back)... unfortunately I have see this first hand.... I think his terms sound acceptable.... considering the circumstances.

Do I think it should have been handled better ... absolutely.... From a manufacturing point of view: The second there is a problem or there is going to be a delay contact the customer... let them opt out if need be .. communication is the key here....

Hope it all works out....

Please tell me this is the norm out there in normal land.

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Do not drop the dispute.

Keep your money. That Wilkinson should do the trick.

Sometimes manufacturers get held up for unforeseen circumstances. That is understandable, but he should ship to you as a sign of good faith and then you can pay him. (my guess is that would never happen)

Paypal has a vendor policy that the seller must ship product within 7 days of purchase. MannMade did not hold up their end of the Paypal business agreement.

I got hosed by WB Pickups, (14 months and still no PUPS). The king of excuses and unforeseen circumstances. All I can say about his current dilemma is "Karma is a Bitch"

Paypal was useless because WB's "back order" was longer that the 45 day dispute period. A situation I have learned, where patience is not a virtue.

There is no reason to do business with people who can not deliver product in a timely professional manner after taking your money.

This is where credit card purchases are better when they do not actually run the charge until the item actually ships.

Paypal is on my shit-list due to their inability/unwillingness too solve the WB issue because it is past their frail 45 day policy.

Unscrupulous people can easily take advantage of others through paypal.

Paypalsucks.com

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