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Hate to say it but I think Hamer is done


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I think they should go back to their roots and build Sunburst Flat tops and Standards for stock and everything else on a preorder system.

My opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it.

I agree on the Standards (for selfish reasons), but you make a great point. Concentrating on the 2-3 models they're most known for to stock dealers with while still making custom orders would be a great way to stay in the public eye.

Let's face it - as a Custom Order only shop 95-99% of their orders will come from right here and once everyone here gets their dream axe, who's left? No one who has never owned or at least had significant play time or exposure to a Hamer is going to custom order a high-dollar guitar from them.

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Let's face it - as a Custom Order only shop 95-99% of their orders will come from right here and once everyone here gets their dream axe, who's left? No one who has never owned or at least had significant play time or exposure to a Hamer is going to custom order a high-dollar guitar from them.

I'd bet that a dealer like Wilcutt will order a number of custom orders for stock pieces. They've basically been doing that for years.

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I don't want anything thrown at me, as it's an Apples to Oranges comparison, but,

Carvin has been doing the "build to order" thing for, uh, decades, and it doesn't appear

as though they're "done". They don't hang on walls at Guitar Center. Granted, they

did add an 'In Stock' section to their website and open a couple of mortar and brick

locations, but, the super vast majority of their guitars are built to order, to an incredibly

vast selection of custom specs to be determined by the buyer...

Yes, Carvin has done well with their business model.

"Well, I don't really think that the end can be assessed as of itself as being the end because what does the end feel like? It's like saying when you try to extrapolate the end of the universe, you say, if the universe is indeed infinite, then how - what does that mean? How far is all the way, and then if it stops, what's stopping it, and what's behind what's stopping it? So, what's the end, you know, is my question to you."

-- David St. Hubbins

lol of Polara!

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Carvin's business model is selling direct...

+1. The key word in the above is selling. Which involves some degree of advertising. Which Hamer (FMIC) has done virtually none that I know of in some time.

Advertising works, like it or not.

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Carvin's business model is selling direct...

+1. The key word in the above is selling. Which involves some degree of advertising. Which Hamer (FMIC) has done virtually none that I know of in some time.

Advertising works, like it or not.

That would speak to the importance of the website. The thing that concerns me is that IMO the website does not do a good job of describing the new "custom orders" only philosophy, other than stating the "We are a custom shop" mantra, plus having a few custom order pictures. I know the blog is doing some of this, but for me, the blog was a tool for explaining the basis of Hamer quality and that message still needs to be put forward.

If the change in philosophy was well planned, I would have expected a new and improved web site by now, that does a better job of highlighting the custom shop capabilities and philosophy.....i.e., Maybe not the options menu of a Carvin, but a web site that shows enthusiasm for custom orders. Call it Hamer Custom Shop Guitars or something. Make it clear, somehow, that there has been a change for the better, otherwise customers are going to assume the worst.

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And they also sell at prices the most of us can pay. For less than 2K I can get an awesome American-built axe from them, made exactly to my specs and with a very high level of quality. And the same goes with Dean.

FWIW, I don't have the same confidence buying 20-year old Carvins like I do 20-year old Hamers.

I've bought a few older Carvins that were falling apart in ways a Hamer never would.

Sure, Carvins can last 15 years no problem. And maybe they've increased their materials and workmanship to the point that they can last 40+ years plus like Hamers obviously can.

But they have to overcome that lack of trust in my mind, at least. And I know I'm not the only one, because you just don't see many 20-year-old Carvins being sold on eBay. They've probably already disintegrated.

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what are the chances now that fender owns em we can see a few new daytona's and t-51's??????????? that would put a smile on this old frowny puss , i know i know , i won't hold my breath............. :lol:

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Of course we all have our opinions, based on what little we know of all this, and our own business experiences/opinions.

I can't see this being successful, and maybe that's the point. Maybe Fender just wants them to fade away. Personally, I'd think it'd be a good idea to keep traditional Standards and flat tops out there... and maybe a Californian and one of their F-hole guitars...

"You want a custom color, we can do that, an arch top or block inlays, yup... binding of exotic materials... yup."

Most people I meet have never played or even seen a USA Hamer.

Most stores I go to have never carried them, and the few that did, didn't consider them successful, and stopped.

Considering their sunbursts never come out the same twice... I'd be scared of ordering sight unseen.

Amongst fans, they're famous for turning down simple custom orders, off and on... and off again.

They don't advertise at all, they're invisible.

You seldom, heck almost never, see a rock star playing a Hamer. As fans we can argue it's because Hamer doesn't give anything away.. but the vast majority of artists who buy their gear, don't play Hamer either.

So who is going to order them without ever seeing one in an ad, in real life in a shop, a video, or on stage (beside previous fans)? And if you end up selling it, who'd want it? They've never seen one either.

And THIS fan, has had three failed custom orders, two '59 Bursts... one came bright yellow with no flame, the other came orange... no bursts, and the third got lost in the system and it took a year and a bunch of phone calls to find that out. I didn't even get a "Sorry, we'll do that as a top priority"... I got, "You'll have to place that order again." I had to fight to get Hamer to refinish a guitar with finger prints under the finish. They weren't MY finger prints.

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Imagine if Jackson USA was slow and could make faithful reissues of Calis, Chapps, etc. What if the plant in Mexico could churn out a decent Diablo or Centaura for $500 street?

You know, I think they wouldn't sell very well.

I really don't understand why, but Hamer's import lines seem to get less respect than other guitars' lines.

From what I've seen Hamer USA's reputation seems to be dragged down by the mere existence of its import lines in ways that ESP, Ibanez, Fender, Gibson and Fernandes aren't.

And the excellence of Hamer USA quality doesn't seem to have improved the reputation of the import lines, either, even though the Hamer Slammer Series is the equal or superior to *any* non-USA guitar out there, to include Japanese and Mexican made.

Am I wrong? If I'm not wrong, way is it this way? Marketing?

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As long as I'm spouting off I might as well go all the way.

I think everyone in the sales chain needs to pitch in. Given this situation I would keep the models I mentioned above and make it so you had to have ONE (just one) in stock at all times to be considered a "dealer". Make them Sunbursts or Dot Neck Standards made the old school way with the veneer tops, Letraset logo, etc for easier manufacturing. The marketing/regional sales guys have to do their part to make sure there is a dealer or two in every state. Thats a couple hundred guitars a year. I think if they could STREET with case at $1800 it would be a home run. If people can get there hands on them they may notice the little things that set Hamer apart. Maybe not but one thing is for sure, they will NEVER get it unless they can hold one.

If a reputable dealer is knowledgeable about the product I can't see them not selling at least one a YEAR.

Everything else on the existing preorder basis. If the demand is there, outsource "won't build them in New Hartford" guitars to other FMIC plants.

Keep America Working and all that happy horseshit.

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That makes sense.

As long as I'm spouting off I might as well go all the way.

I think everyone in the sales chain needs to pitch in. Given this situation I would keep the models I mentioned above and make it so you had to have ONE (just one) in stock at all times to be considered a "dealer". Make them Sunbursts or Dot Neck Standards made the old school way with the veneer tops. The marketing/regional sales guys have to do their part to make sure there is a dealer or two in every state. Thats a couple hundred guitars a year. I think if they could STREET with case at $1800 it would be a home run. If people can get there hands on them they may notice the little things that set Hamer apart. Maybe not but one thing is for sure, they will NEVER get it unless they can hold one.

If a reputable dealer is knowledgeable about the product I can't see them not selling at least one a YEAR.

Everything else on the existing preorder basis. If the demand is there, outsource "won't build them in New Hartford" guitars to other FMIC plants.

Keep America Working and all that happy horseshit.

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Imagine if Jackson USA was slow and could make faithful reissues of Calis, Chapps, etc. What if the plant in Mexico could churn out a decent Diablo or Centaura for $500 street?

You know, I think they wouldn't sell very well.

I really don't understand why, but Hamer's import lines seem to get less respect than other guitars' lines.

From what I've seen Hamer USA's reputation seems to be dragged down by the mere existence of its import lines in ways that ESP, Ibanez, Fender, Gibson and Fernandes aren't.

And the excellence of Hamer USA quality doesn't seem to have improved the reputation of the import lines, either, even though the Hamer Slammer Series is the equal or superior to *any* non-USA guitar out there, to include Japanese and Mexican made.

Am I wrong? If I'm not wrong, way is it this way? Marketing?

I agree... Diablos Centauras etc are nice, but putting yourselves in the shoes of some

18 year old kid, they aren't as sleek as some of what Ibanez, ESP and Jackson are putting

out.. Some of the newer Hamer imports look kind of cool, but I'm not sure they have the

guns to compete. It seems as if there isn't enough "pull" in the consumer's conciousness

to get FMIC to throw any developmental funds toward it...

with the USA product, everything seems to have an unwieldy 4K list price.

That would be quite a commitment for a small business owner to put them on the shelf

if they didn't have homes for it. If they flipped em frequently, different story...

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Y'know, it's very easy for all of us to go on about how WE'D run Hamer.

Hamer is a brand owned by FMIC and it's going to evaluated in terms of how it best benefits FMIC's overall goals.

Period.

They have purchased a solid -- if if not household -- name, with a really nice shop and some top craftspeople. They have sensibly leveraged those latter assets to bring the Guild line up to speed, and can, if they want, build set-neck guitars of the Gibson school.

Seems like a winning situation for FMIC: they can crank out high-quality Guilds, which are a better known name, and fill down time by making small batches of set-neck high-end electrics with a trusted brand name for buyers who might otherwise spend their thousands on a PRS or Gibson.

Take away our own emotionally-charged "If I ran it, I'd make nothing but Californians with boomers!" feelings and it's hard to argue with what they are doing.

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That makes sense.

As long as I'm spouting off I might as well go all the way.

I think everyone in the sales chain needs to pitch in. Given this situation I would keep the models I mentioned above and make it so you had to have ONE (just one) in stock at all times to be considered a "dealer". Make them Sunbursts or Dot Neck Standards made the old school way with the veneer tops. The marketing/regional sales guys have to do their part to make sure there is a dealer or two in every state. Thats a couple hundred guitars a year. I think if they could STREET with case at $1800 it would be a home run. If people can get there hands on them they may notice the little things that set Hamer apart. Maybe not but one thing is for sure, they will NEVER get it unless they can hold one.

If a reputable dealer is knowledgeable about the product I can't see them not selling at least one a YEAR.

Everything else on the existing preorder basis. If the demand is there, outsource "won't build them in New Hartford" guitars to other FMIC plants.

Keep America Working and all that happy horseshit.

Sounds like a plan.

A very good plan.

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Does anyone else think it's possible that FMIC was less interested in buying the Hamer brand than they were getting the Hamer people and facilities? Continuing to build them on per order basis may just be their way of throwing the fanatics a bone. When those fanatics who want them and can afford them get their dream guitars built, the custom orders will slow down to a trickle and I wouldn't think they'd continue to offer even that. That, unfortunately, is business.

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Does anyone else think it's possible that FMIC was less interested in buying the Hamer brand than they were getting the Hamer people and facilities?

This wasn't about Hamer guitars. It was about Kaman's distribution business.

http://www.entrepreneur.com/tradejournals/.../199865021.html

Note the rule #1 under the 'five rules of good distribution.'

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Another aspect of the KMC operation that remains firmly in place involves what Damiano calls "the five rules of good distribution." "Those five rules have brought us to where we are today," Damiano states firmly, "so we're not about to change them now. First: Have everything in stock, no matter how wide your selection is. Second: Offer everything at a fair price. Third: Provide same-day shipping. Fourth: Offer reasonable credit policies to dealers. And fifth: Provide after-sale service, which includes accurate problem solving.

Now THAT looks pretty bad.........

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"First" doesn't apply to made-to-order businesses.

Hamer started off with a made-to-order business and now is back where it started. So, what's the deal?

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