6V6 Current vs. NOS

M

morningstar

New member
Anybody got an opinion of whether the current 6V6GT keeps up with the NOS?

If NOS is better can a bar full of drunks tell the difference?

Thanks

morningstar

 
morningstar said:
Anybody got an opinion of whether the current 6V6GT keeps up with the NOS?If NOS is better can a bar full of drunks tell the difference?

Thanks

morningstar
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First off not all NOS are created equal. and the best sounding/performing NOS power or preamp tubes, are getting harder to find. I hate to be "captain obvious" but that needs to be said.

There are some very good sounding current production tubes. They don't last as long or sound the same for a myriad of reasons but to answer your question, a bar full of drunks cannot tell the difference. I can't tell you how many folks I know that don't even gig with tube amps anymore because the ease of changing sounds overrules tonal quality and, as many have put it, the average person has no clue about tone. Add in alcohol.........

The current production 6v6's are nothing like the best of the NOS. The JJ 6v6 isn't even a true 6v6 but more of a small bottle 6l6. I still have some RCA Blackplate 6v6's. NOTHING comes close to these. I have some GE, Brimar, Mazda, and Haltrons, all sound better than any current production 6v6 using a Tweed Deluxe and a BF Deluxe Reverb as test beds.

The best sounding current production 6v6's are the Tung Sol and EH. Yeah, I said EH. There were some bad batches a few years back but recently they have been solid and they can take the voltages. A builder friend of mine who specializes in Tweed type amps likes both. We have both spent hours and hours testing tubes in our amps. We had a joint effort on a 24 watt 6v6 amp that delivered Marshall Plexi- JMP- JCM800 type tones and when I was done the EH's delivered the goods. TAD deserves a mention as well but I think they are just "select" EH's anyway. I don't know who GT(Groove Tubes) sources theirs from but the premium is not worth it.

As usual, JMHO, YMMV.

 
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^ yup.

TAD's have been really good to me as well for my tweed tubed needs.

good prices at mojo.

 
Brewmaster said:
I can't tell you how many folks I know that don't even gig with tube amps anymore because the ease of changing sounds overrules tonal quality and, as many have put it, the average person has no clue about tone. Add in alcohol.........
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agreed. yet weirdly i still play through a tube amp because I'm mainly concerned about whether I like the sound I'm getting. THis makes me sound like total selfish AND self-absorbed asshole!

 
Really like what Brewmaster said...my fave amp currently is a SF Deluxe Reverb, and the thing that I dislike about them, is that they sock a LOT of voltage to the 6V6s. I don't have a problem with tube life, I only play at home anyway and not that often, and the amp is healthy, but the circuit was designed when US made 6V6s were cheap and plentiful. But waddya gonna do? If I was playing out, I wouldn't use anything that I couldn't replace or miss if it was destroyed or stolen, not if I could help it anyway.

Edited to add: I use JAN NOS Philips 6V6s in my DR.

+1 on the comment about drunks and the audience. There's a Carl Perkins story from back in the '50s (I'm sure that others have done something similar in one way or another), he played a kinda-LP shaped Harmony Stratotone in honky-tonks early in his career, he wanted a Les Paul but couldn't afford one at the time, so he covered the name on the headstock with tape so people would think he had a LP. But, he realized that 'drunks can't read no how'. /emoticons/default_cool.png Not many people go to a club to check out gear, not the general public anyway. Besides, it's too damn noisy in a club, you have to use an amp that will cut through to the audience to be heard, as well as fit in with your bandmates. Any nuances get lost in the crowd, IMHO.

 
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What's the word on RCA 6v6 GTA's? These seem to still be more available than the black glass versions.

ArnieZ

 
I was told EH tubes are built the same place as the Sovteks now?

Morningstar: I think Gale at Puget Sound Organ has a LOT of good used vintage 6V6s. He's on South 12th in Tacoma, about halfway between Sprague and Union. Last time I bought used 6V6s from him, I think they were about $15 ea. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he's still got some black glass RCAs. That's a fun place to go see, he's got SO much stuff in there.

I'm running old Westinghouse 6V6s in my Silverface DR, those are pretty dreamy.

 
ArnieZ said:
What's the word on RCA 6v6 GTA's? These seem to still be more available than the black glass versions.ArnieZ
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Those are the grey plates, clear glass IIRC. Same as GE ca. early 60's. Still very good just not as creamy sounding as the black plate. Some folks actually preferred them.

Jimbilly said:
I was told EH tubes are built the same place as the Sovteks now?
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Lot of tubes coming out of the Reflektor Factory. Eh, Sovtek, Tung Sol, Mullard RI, and I think the new Svetlana's.

All are built to different specs with a few exceptions. Example: The Sovtek 12ax7a LPS which is the best Sovtek offers appears to me to be identical to the Mullard 12ax7 RI.

BTW, the new Svets are nothing like the old ones. I think guys in the know like Poe are aware that the "Winged C" is the old Svet. That is critical knowledge for El34's since the "Winged C" is far superior.

 
edgar_allan_poe said:
I think guys in the know like Poe are aware that the "Winged C" is the old Svet. That is critical knowledge for El34's since the "Winged C" is far superior.
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Yup...whole different tube.
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I'm curious about the EL34s, since it's been mentioned...how does the 'Winged C' stack up with the old East German Siemens or early Tesla (not JJ) EL34s? I have a small stash of both in Marshall packaging from the early '90's, I'm keeping them for my Marshall 2554 combo. I also have Tesla (Marshall packaging) 12AX7s from the same time frame, how do they stack up with others?

 
Thanks guys. That's a ton of great information.

I bought a matched pair of the Tung Sols. At this point they are backup just in case the 6V6 in the yet-to-arrive Egnater Tweaker head are nasty. Thanks Jimbilly. I will get my butt to the PS Organ store and pick up some cool older NOS or pull tubes.

I also have GT EL34s and Winged C Svetlana 6L6s to try out in the Tweaker... apparently, one can swap tubes without any adjustment in the little thing.

I have a couple dozen 12AX7's of varying vintages to try. I still like the EH 12ax7 as much as NOS Sylvania. The best preamp tube I ever had was a Radio Shack International Servicemaster gold pin 7025.

One change at a time!

morningstar

 
morningstar said:
The best preamp tube I ever had was a Radio Shack International Servicemaster gold pin 7025.One change at a time!

morningstar
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Those RS tubes I believe were made by E.I. They manufactured tubes for Philips, Telefunken, and Siemans when the Iron curtain was still up and afterwards in the former Yugoslavia. They made some great sounding tubes through the years. The old Philips tooling is currently undergoing some changes, I don't have the whole story but I understand they will be up and running again. Lots of Marshall branded tubes came out of there from the late 80's forward. They had a run of 12ax7's that had the best gain structure of any current production tube. They had a tendency to be microphonic because of the large plates. The tube audiophiles liked them and they did well in heads. I put a pair in a Matchless Hotbox and they put that pedal into a different class. The friend I sold it to still has them in there after 7 + years.

Welcome to the wild world of tubes. Once you get bit, you just can't quit!

 
I run old RCA blackplates in my DRII. It came with TAD's when I bought it and they were great sounding too. If i would need to buy a new pair I'd buy them over a set of NOS, they are good enough in the "price vs. what you get" equation.

In my super champ I have a pair of old Raytheon 6V6's. Those are my personal favourites. So much warmth to them. I like them better than the RCA's. But that is just me /emoticons/default_cool.png

Try the TAD's. I think you will be surprised how good they sound. And even if they don't last as long as a pair old old tubes, you can easily afford to replace them once a year - or so.

 
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For clean to gritty amp circuits, you'll really notice the difference between modern production 6V6's and the best of the vintage production models tonally. I've always had good luck with RCA grey glass tubes. While vintage RCA tubes are getting rarer and pricier these days, occasionally you come upon various lots of them or other excellent sounding tubes rebranded under different names (radio/TV, organ or jukebox manufacturers' name brands are the usual suspects).

 
I'm curious about the EL34s, since it's been mentioned...how does the 'Winged C' stack up with the old East German Siemens or early Tesla (not JJ) EL34s? I have a small stash of both in Marshall packaging from the early '90's, I'm keeping them for my Marshall 2554 combo. I also have Tesla (Marshall packaging) 12AX7s from the same time frame, how do they stack up with others?
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The old Seimens and Teslas are still heads and shoulders above the Winged C's. No comparison IMHO. I currently have a small stash of Mullards, telefunken, Amperex, Sylvania, and Tesla 12ax7s. The Teslas are what are in my amp currently. I have an Elmwood Modena 90 and it just seems to me that those Teslas make that amp roar. Not as refined as the Mullard or Teles and that works perfectly in this type of high gain amp. The Sylvanias have such a wicked bottom end and the Elmwood has such a HUGE amount of bottom end that it was just too over the top for me.

The early Tesla 12ax7s and EL34s are spectacular tubes that cannot be touched by modern versions. IMHO of course.

 
Disturber said:
Try the TAD's. I think you will be surprised how good they sound. And even if they don't last as long as a pair old old tubes, you can easily afford to replace them once a year - or so.
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The same can be said for the TAD Short bottle 6L6'(WCG-STR). I put a pair in a Deluxe Reverb for a local musician and they sounded spectacular. Speaking of 6l6's the short bottle Tung Sol 6l6STR is another great choice as a 5881 replacement or lower power 6l6. I put a pair in a real Tweed Bassman, (had to adjust the

56k bias resistor) and they also sounded great.

edgar_allan_poe said:
The old Seimens and Teslas are still heads and shoulders above the Winged C's. No comparison IMHO. I currently have a small stash of Mullards, telefunken, Amperex, Sylvania, and Tesla 12ax7s. The Teslas are what are in my amp currently. I have an Elmwood Modena 90 and it just seems to me that those Teslas make that amp roar. Not as refined as the Mullard or Teles and that works perfectly in this type of high gain amp. The Sylvanias have such a wicked bottom end and the Elmwood has such a HUGE amount of bottom end that it was just too over the top for me.

The early Tesla 12ax7s and EL34s are spectacular tubes that cannot be touched by modern versions. IMHO of course.
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Very good grasshopper. /emoticons/default_cool.png

Speaking of old Tesla, the hex plate el-84's are my personal favorites. I got over two years in my 18 watt prototype and they sounded as good as the Mullards I have. I also like them better than the Amperex's I have.

The round plate Tesla EL-84 sound good but have a tendency to go microphonic and are better off for use in old tube stereos

 
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Thanks everyone for the input. I need some new tubes for the Tweaker to try out. I usually run Ruby EL34's in the Tweaker but my sound has gone flat recently and its time to try something new. I really want to swap preamp tubes around.

For the guys that are playing new amps most if not all of these amps are designed around newer tubes so how much does a different tube make?

 
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Very good grasshopper. laugh.gif
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Thank you sensei. /emoticons/default_cool.png

For the guys that are playing new amps most if not all of these amps are designed around newer tubes so how much does a different tube make?
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In power sections you will only hear a difference if can get the amp loud anough to clip the power tubes. I run NOS power tubes more for the reliability than the tone, although I have to say that the tone of the NOS 6550s I have in the Elmwood is absolutely stunning.

Preamp they can make a very large difference. *Especially* in that in between gritty medium gain tone. Mind you, they wont make a Twin into a Plexi or vice versa so the main factor in the tone of an amp will always come mainly from its design and not the tubes. But different tubes will give you very different flavors. Think of it as the difference between cheap artificial vanilla ice cream and a good pint of home made authentic vanilla bean ice cream. What it won't do is give you chocolate. /emoticons/default_biggrin.png

 
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