PSA: Sustain Block Special

[Gitslide]

http://www.daddys.com/detail.php?itemTitle...mNumber=HAM4019

Daddy's Junky Music in Dedham, MA. They do ship stuff.

[specialk]

oooh, nice!

[bubs_42]

I've got no guts anymore. Specials are great guitars and that is a great price period!

[dewey finn]

I've got no guts anymore. Specials are great guitars and that is a great price period!

Used to be mine. Great player. Traded it towards a 71 LP deluxe otherwise it would be mine still!

[sixesandsevens]

Used to be mine. Great player. Traded it towards a 71 LP deluxe otherwise it would be mine still!

Cool guitar. Is it the maple veneer style or the maple cap (Special FM?)?

Edit: You know, for posterity, since the guitar's already sold!

[dewey finn]

Maple Cap.

[Pieman]

How was the fret wear? Did you give it up recently?

Never mind It's gone.

[crunchee]

Used to be mine. Great player. Traded it towards a 71 LP deluxe otherwise it would be mine still!

Cool guitar. Is it the maple veneer style or the maple cap (Special FM?)?

Edit: You know, for posterity, since the guitar's already sold!

Maple Cap.

I thought early '80's Sustain Block Specials were always a maple veneer top when they were a transparent color. The way the paint was masked and sprayed when they did the top, with a dark margin around the edges, gave the illusion of a thicker top (I've had three Sustain Block Specials...in Cherry Sunburst/'59 'Burst, Cherry Transparent, and Tobacco Sunburst, all were factory painted this way) but it was simply a veneer top. I have a couple of FM Specials also, there is a BIG difference between the two versions.

[serial]

No maple cap-that's a veneer top (single piece). All Sunbursts and Specials in trans finishes (and many if not most with opaque finishes) had veneer tops. Four digit Standards had a center seam two-piece veneer.

That doesn't lessen the guitar in the slightest.

Maps caps were only on a half dozen or so carved top Sunbursts.

Flat Maple caps were offered in the early 90s on the Special FM.

[dewey finn]

Then it had a very thick veneer. Maybe around a 1/4"

[serial]

Then it had a very thick veneer. Maybe around a 1/4"

That would be very surprising. I've never seen an 80s Special with anything but a veneer top unless it was one of the rare (stupid rare) carved tops and that one in the pic looks like every other veneer topped one to me. As mentioned above, the way they edged the top makes it appear much thicker than the veneer actually is.

[sixesandsevens]

That doesn't lessen the guitar in the slightest.

I didn't mean to suggest that it would, esp. since I'm thinking I might like to try one of these all-mahogany guitars at some point.

Does the veneer affect the tone noticeably vs. a non-veneered, maple-free guitar?

[JGale]

The maple veneer gives it a gorgeous mid-throat....

I read that recently.

Buy it, put Gregwinds in it and rock your way to greasy goodness the Reverend would be proud of!

Notice I didn't use that nasty Oxford comma. Hate that thing.

[sixesandsevens]

Redacted due to an absurdly time-lagged double post.

[zenmindbeginner]

The word veneer is sort of a loaded one.

If you go to the veneer store and purchase veneer, it is usually around 1/32-1/42 of an inch thick. If you have a piece of furniture that has a veneer, it is usually 1/32-1/42" which is sort of the loose standard in North America. The Japanese frequently use very thin veneers.

A 1/16"-1/18" veneer is in the "pretty damn thick" veneer category.

The tops on the Specials were somewhere around 1/8"-1/4" right?

Veneers are something that you can soften and roll up like a piece of newspaper.

The tops on the Specials absolutely cannot be softened and rolled up like paper.

Anything over 1/8" is considered thin lumber.

The tops on the early Specials are wood, calling them veneers is being a bit disparaging dontcha think?

[crunchee]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_veneer

I had a Sustain Block Special up until very recently, which had the maple veneer top delaminating from the guitar at the body edge...and not a little, but a LOT. It was THIN, probably thinner than old fashioned paper posterboard, I'd say closer to construction paper thickness, and it definitely was NOT something you wanted to stick a thumbnail under and try to fix...partly so not to break the veneer, partly so not to crack the rest of the finish. And NO, the delamination was NOT where you usually see the 'margin' around the top side edges on one of these guitars...it was right along the top edge, just BEFORE the body curves at the edge down the side, in other words the veneer is on a flat surface and NOT curved around the top edge of the guitar. The illusion that it is thicker is simply due to good ol' faux finishing along the edges, as well as the effect of the finish itself on curly maple.

I have seen other Sustain Block Specials with a veneer top, in beat-up shape, where they were getting a 'blistered' texture on the top (not a 'look', a texture), due to delamination of the top from the body; and this look is common on old veneered furniture, especially those that have been in temperature extremes or in a damp climate or flood damaged. I'm confident that I WON'T see this effect EVER on a 1/4" top on a Special FM, not due to simple climate changes anyway.

I doubt seriously that the maple veneered top makes a huge difference in sound, any more than the glue holding it on does, and that the rest of the guitar should get some credit, too (duh!). I used to TRY to attribute the sound of my RN Standard Custom to the maple top, until I found out the top is veneer, I just had to accept that the guitar sounded that way (great!) no matter how pretty the top looked, and that I had been listening with my eyes.

[serial]

The tops on the 80s Specials (and Four Digits and Sunbursts) is a THIN veneer. Trust me-I have a sheet of what they used around somewhere (unless I gave it to Platzer for rehabs and Kahler repairs!). It's not much thicker than a Manila folder. I've also had several stripped Specials, Sunbursts and even two four digits pass through my hands over the years. The tops are thin! Look at the pickup cavities of a stripped one (or a trans finished one) and you'll see that there's not much there. Nothing close to what anyone cpuld legitimately call a "maple cap". The veneers were strictly cosmetic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_veneer

I had a Sustain Block Special up until very recently, which had the maple veneer top delaminating from the guitar at the body edge...and not a little, but a LOT. It was THIN, probably thinner than old fashioned paper posterboard, I'd say closer to construction paper thickness, and it definitely was NOT something you wanted to stick a thumbnail under and try to fix...partly so not to break the veneer, partly so not to crack the rest of the finish. And NO, the delamination was NOT where you usually see the 'margin' around the top side edges on one of these guitars...it was right along the top edge, just BEFORE the body curves at the edge down the side, in other words the veneer is on a flat surface and NOT curved around the top edge of the guitar. The illusion that it is thicker is simply due to good ol' faux finishing along the edges, as well as the effect of the finish itself on curly maple.

I have seen other Sustain Block Specials with a veneer top, in beat-up shape, where they were getting a 'blistered' texture on the top (not a 'look', a texture), due to delamination of the top from the body; and this look is common on old veneered furniture, especially those that have been in temperature extremes or in a damp climate or flood damaged. I'm confident that I WON'T see this effect EVER on a 1/4" top on a Special FM, not due to simple climate changes anyway.

I doubt seriously that the maple veneered top makes a huge difference in sound, any more than the glue holding

it on does, and that the rest of the guitar should get some credit, too (duh!). I used to TRY to attribute the sound of my RN Standard Custom to the maple top, until I found out the top is veneer, I just had to accept that the guitar sounded that way (great!) no matter how pretty the top looked, and that I had been listening with my eyes.

This!

For the best demonstration of this-look at a Special with a wear spot by the bridge pickup or where a pickguard would be (finger or pick wearthroughs)-there are a lot of them out there-you're down into mahogany after almost no time.

[zenmindbeginner]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_veneer

I had a Sustain Block Special up until very recently, which had the maple veneer top delaminating from the guitar at the body edge...and not a little, but a LOT. It was THIN, probably thinner than old fashioned paper posterboard, I'd say closer to construction paper thickness, and it definitely was NOT something you wanted to stick a thumbnail under and try to fix...partly so not to break the veneer, partly so not to crack the rest of the finish. And NO, the delamination was NOT where you usually see the 'margin' around the top side edges on one of these guitars...it was right along the top edge, just BEFORE the body curves at the edge down the side, in other words the veneer is on a flat surface and NOT curved around the top edge of the guitar. The illusion that it is thicker is simply due to good ol' faux finishing along the edges, as well as the effect of the finish itself on curly maple.

I have seen other Sustain Block Specials with a veneer top, in beat-up shape, where they were getting a 'blistered' texture on the top (not a 'look', a texture), due to delamination of the top from the body; and this look is common on old veneered furniture, especially those that have been in temperature extremes or in a damp climate or flood damaged. I'm confident that I WON'T see this effect EVER on a 1/4" top on a Special FM, not due to simple climate changes anyway.

I doubt seriously that the maple veneered top makes a huge difference in sound, any more than the glue holding it on does, and that the rest of the guitar should get some credit, too (duh!). I used to TRY to attribute the sound of my RN Standard Custom to the maple top, until I found out the top is veneer, I just had to accept that the guitar sounded that way (great!) no matter how pretty the top looked, and that I had been listening with my eyes.

I stripped a 1982 Special down last year and sanded it down to the bare damn wood. I sanded the top with a belt and random orbital sander a lot. I block sanded the top a lot. I am no where near sanding through the top... I would have sanded through a veneer soon after I got all of the paint and wood dye off of the guitar. Veneers are very delicate and sand through is a huge issue with them. The sustain block Special tops have a rounded edge to them... you simply can't round the edge of a piece of veneer, it's impossible. In fact, the plan was to put a decorative piece of veneer on top of the existing maple.

The only thing that has stopped me is the fact that I won't get a rounded edge with a veneer, so I sort of dropped the project since I am not in the position to add any binding channels on a set neck guitar to hide the seam.

If it was a veneer, I could have just easily sanded through it and slapped another down where the old one was right? Well how did Hamer achieve the rounded body edges on the Specials if there is a veneer on top? You can round something that doesn't have any thickness to it.

If you have a veneer on top... you've got to have binding to hide the seams.

The tops on the 80s Specials (and Four Digits and Sunbursts) is a THIN veneer. Trust me-I have a sheet of what they used around somewhere (unless I gave it to Platzer for rehabs and Kahler repairs!). It's not much thicker than a Manila folder. I've also had several stripped Specials, Sunbursts and even two four digits pass through my hands over the years. The tops are thin! Look at the pickup cavities of a stripped one (or a trans finished one) and you'll see that there's not much there. Nothing close to what anyone cpuld legitimately call a "maple cap". The veneers were strictly cosmetic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_veneer

I had a Sustain Block Special up until very recently, which had the maple veneer top delaminating from the guitar at the body edge...and not a little, but a LOT. It was THIN, probably thinner than old fashioned paper posterboard, I'd say closer to construction paper thickness, and it definitely was NOT something you wanted to stick a thumbnail under and try to fix...partly so not to break the veneer, partly so not to crack the rest of the finish. And NO, the delamination was NOT where you usually see the 'margin' around the top side edges on one of these guitars...it was right along the top edge, just BEFORE the body curves at the edge down the side, in other words the veneer is on a flat surface and NOT curved around the top edge of the guitar. The illusion that it is thicker is simply due to good ol' faux finishing along the edges, as well as the effect of the finish itself on curly maple.

I have seen other Sustain Block Specials with a veneer top, in beat-up shape, where they were getting a 'blistered' texture on the top (not a 'look', a texture), due to delamination of the top from the body; and this look is common on old veneered furniture, especially those that have been in temperature extremes or in a damp climate or flood damaged. I'm confident that I WON'T see this effect EVER on a 1/4" top on a Special FM, not due to simple climate changes anyway.

I doubt seriously that the maple veneered top makes a huge difference in sound, any more than the glue holding

it on does, and that the rest of the guitar should get some credit, too (duh!). I used to TRY to attribute the sound of my RN Standard Custom to the maple top, until I found out the top is veneer, I just had to accept that the guitar sounded that way (great!) no matter how pretty the top looked, and that I had been listening with my eyes.

This!

For the best demonstration of this-look at a Special with a wear spot by the bridge pickup or where a pickguard would be (finger or pick wearthroughs)-there are a lot of them out there-you're down into mahogany after almost no time.

You can round the edge on a piece of thin lumber, but you can't round the edge of a veneer. If you work a traditional woodworker, you see a thin piece of lumber and usually dismiss it as a veneer. If you actually work with veneers, you have a more clear definition of what a veneer is and know your thin lumber from a veneer.

Veneer also has a definition that doesn't have to do with wood. You can get veneers on yer teeth, so by it's common usage, the maple "top" on a Special is a veneer.

I'm not trying to argue with anybody about the colloquial usage of the word "veneer".

But by veneer standards, it's not really a veneer, it's thin lumber.

I grew up in the furniture industry here in North Carolina, I know what veneer is.

[crunchee]

[serial]

I know furniture and NC too (was friends with Hunt Broyhill and worked the furniture market for years in school and lived a few miles outside of High Point.)

I've also had the actual 80s Hamer maple veneer sheets in my hands and probably still have some around, so that's where I'm coming from. The rounded edge is a bevelling of the top and there's a bit of illusion going on there.

It's my understanding that there are some retops out there that were done (ECMM?), but my guess is you could tell those by looking in the control cavity. Take an unmolested one and look at the top thickness in the pickup routes-that's a thin veneer of maple there!

[zenmindbeginner]

Well, after getting off of my ass and pickup up the guitar (the cavities are painted, but I could see the maple line where the holes for the pots are) the top is 1/16" when they slapped it on. That qualifies as thick veneer, I sanded it down to where it's probably only 1/32" thick now. I guess that it resisted sand through because it is hard rock maple and didn't have anything to do with it's thickness. You absolutely can round the edges of a 1/16" piece of veneer. It's not thin lumber, it's veneer.

Lolz.