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Well, it was fun....... but it's over.


BCR Greg

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Kiz, way off topic but...

"In 1988, Apple sued Microsoft for copyright infringement of the LISA and Apple Macintosh GUI. The court case lasted 4 years before almost all of Apple's claims were denied on a contractual technicality. Subsequent appeals by Apple were also denied. Microsoft and Apple apparently entered a final, private settlement of the matter in 1997."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_graphical_user_interface

The Windows concept was lifted from Apple which lifted it from Xerox. Job's "mistake" in the early days was not licensing the GUI OS it was developing to other hardware makers which Gates did gladly. I think it is safe to say that without the Windows OS Microsoft would have been a successful software company but maybe not "world changers".

p.s. period. :)

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The Windows concept was lifted from Apple which lifted it from Xerox. Job's "mistake" in the early days was not licensing the GUI OS it was developing to other hardware makers which Gates did gladly. I think it is safe to say that without the Windows OS Microsoft would have been a successful software company but maybe not "world changers".

p.s. period. :)

So they both had the same tech, yet one was able to brand it and market it to a point that it reached (and maintains) a 90% market share.

A concept alone doesn't change the world...you have to sell it. Gates did.

Imagine waking up to a world devoid of MS products tomorrow morning.

Shit. Would. Stop. Period.

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Imagine waking up to a world devoid of MS products tomorrow morning.

Shit. Would. Stop. Period.

I'm not really a Microsoft or Apple fan, but I have to agree with this. If every Apple product disappeared tomorrow the world would keep turning. If every Microsoft product disappeared we would be in a world of hurt. For example, everything Fender designs and builds starts out in SolidWorks CAD software running on Windows machines...ditto for Harley-Davidson, Ducati, etc.

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Also, remember the basic fact that in a blind sound test, 99.9 percent of the "tone snobs" on the planet, myself included, couldn't tell the difference between a 2004 Strat and a 1962 Strat.

That kind of attitude will get you thrown the fuck off the Gear Page, guy.

So will a reply of "fuck her already and get it over with" in a thread started by a landscaper about how an old lady client of his had a habit of watching his every move whenever he cut her grass. Ask me how I know!

Hahaha! I guess that's why I've never been on the Gear Page...I do want to hear the landscaper story, though...

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Jobs changed the world, Fender changed music... regardless of the inevitable distortions, right or wrong, long from now they will be remembered for what they made and not how they made it... period. :D

Let's get one thing straight: Gates changed the world, Jobs followed a distant second for decades.

It's not one or the other, it's both. Gates changed the world by mainstreaming desktop computing. Jobs changed the world by mainstreaming mobile computing...period!

Oh, and I've heard lots of people that heard from lots of other people that Leo was all about the bottom line, and saying so isn't demonizing...period!

There would be no latter without the former. And let's not forget how long Jobs was chasing Gates' ass, trying to get to 5% of the market share which Gates owned.

Gates changed the world into what we know it today. Jobs merely made changes to the changes (and I'm not down-playing that).

Even the iPod was technology that SONY (a company I worked for in the early 2000's) invented, marketed, and then for some inexplicable reason abandoned. Essentially handing it to Apple.

Jobs was a visionary, but he was not the one responsible for the manner in which we are all connected, neither was he above perpetuating slave labor in China so that we could have more iPads.

He was a humanitarian but he was also a businessman, so we can't absolve him of all of the negatives that come with that moniker.

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Jobs changed the world, Fender changed music... regardless of the inevitable distortions, right or wrong, long from now they will be remembered for what they made and not how they made it... period. :D

Let's get one thing straight: Gates changed the world, Jobs followed a distant second for decades.

It's not one or the other, it's both. Gates changed the world by mainstreaming desktop computing. Jobs changed the world by mainstreaming mobile computing...period!

Oh, and I've heard lots of people that heard from lots of other people that Leo was all about the bottom line, and saying so isn't demonizing...period!

There would be no latter without the former. And let's not forget how long Jobs was chasing Gates' ass, trying to get to 5% of the market share which Gates owned.

Gates changed the world into what we know it today. Jobs merely made changes to the changes (and I'm not down-playing that).

Even the iPod was technology that SONY (a company I worked for in the early 2000's) invented, marketed, and then for some inexplicable reason abandoned. Essentially handing it to Apple.

Jobs was a visionary, but he was not the one responsible for the manner in which we are all connected, neither was he above perpetuating slave labor in China so that we could have more iPads.

He was a humanitarian but he was also a businessman, so we can't absolve him of all of the negatives that come with that moniker.

WTF. This is like debating whether Superman can kick Batmans ass while butt-dialing his iPhone.

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Jobs changed the world, Fender changed music... regardless of the inevitable distortions, right or wrong, long from now they will be remembered for what they made and not how they made it... period. :D

Let's get one thing straight: Gates changed the world, Jobs followed a distant second for decades. It is the 20 and 30-somethings that are too young to remember this fact and have held Jobs up to the God-like status he currently holds (even posthumously).

It was Bill Gates' dream that everyone would have a computer in their homes at a time what this was simply ludicrous. This is what brought Internet into every home.

You can debate that Jobs improved on Gates' ideas, but that's not the point.

The reason we are all here discussing anything on a message board in the first place is because of Bill Gates.

Jobs stole the computer mouse from xerox in or around 1976. Apple and Jobs created Apple I and II by 1977 and built the first GUI based interface for a computer some years later in 1983. The lisa was a colossal failure.

Ibm create the first ibm computer in 1981 running ms-dos created by Bill Gates. By 1984 apple released the Macintosh with GUI and mouse. IBM added a mouse in 1987 and windows 3.0 shipped in 1990.

I would argue that Gates improved on Jobs ideas or at least incorporated them into Windows which really started the business use of computers. Many home user were buying atari's and comodores and such as well as apples and IBM's with Windows. Gates took it mainstream with Windows that really started the use of computers at home.

Jobs also revolutionized home computers with the iMac. A simple machine designed for home users.

http://www.computerhistory.org/timeline/?year=1976

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There were stripped down (albeit failures) "e-machines" long before the iMac. (For the record, I am typing this on an iMac, so I'm not anti-Apple).

At the risk of repeating myself (well, I'll do it anyway), Gates was the one who wanted to bring a PC into every home. The Xerox people laughed in his face and literally GAVE him the programming which would eventually become DOS, which begat Windows, and so on.

Jobs was an "also ran" for at least 20 years. It was the iPod (again, technology abandoned by SONY) that spurred interest in Apple to more of the mainstream. This brought up their computer sales enough so that more people could make the argument that the Mac is a superior product. Whether or not you feel that way is not the issue, but more people fall on that side of the argument than ever before.

So, my point (that most seem to be missing) is that the technology itself is not what drove society to where it is now. It is the man who brought it to us, and that man is Bill Gates. There is no denying this.

Xerox had the programming idea and thought it was a waste of time. Gates saw a way to bring it to everyone, which drove the Internet infrastructure and so on.

Jobs saw the Walkman and found a way to make it cool. His integration between the iPod and his computers is what drove up his market share.

So, again, without Gates, there is no Jobs.

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There were stripped down (albeit failures) "e-machines" long before the iMac. (For the record, I am typing this on an iMac, so I'm not anti-Apple).

At the risk of repeating myself (well, I'll do it anyway), Gates was the one who wanted to bring a PC into every home. The Xerox people laughed in his face and literally GAVE him the programming which would eventually become DOS, which begat Windows, and so on.

Jobs was an "also ran" for at least 20 years. It was the iPod (again, technology abandoned by SONY) that spurred interest in Apple to more of the mainstream. This brought up their computer sales enough so that more people could make the argument that the Mac is a superior product. Whether or not you feel that way is not the issue, but more people fall on that side of the argument than ever before.

So, my point (that most seem to be missing) is that the technology itself is not what drove society to where it is now. It is the man who brought it to us, and that man is Bill Gates. There is no denying this.

Xerox had the programming idea and thought it was a waste of time. Gates saw a way to bring it to everyone, which drove the Internet infrastructure and so on.

Jobs saw the Walkman and found a way to make it cool. His integration between the iPod and his computers is what drove up his market share.

So, again, without Gates, there is no Jobs.

Period!

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There were stripped down (albeit failures) "e-machines" long before the iMac. (For the record, I am typing this on an iMac, so I'm not anti-Apple).

At the risk of repeating myself (well, I'll do it anyway), Gates was the one who wanted to bring a PC into every home. The Xerox people laughed in his face and literally GAVE him the programming which would eventually become DOS, which begat Windows, and so on.

Jobs was an "also ran" for at least 20 years. It was the iPod (again, technology abandoned by SONY) that spurred interest in Apple to more of the mainstream. This brought up their computer sales enough so that more people could make the argument that the Mac is a superior product. Whether or not you feel that way is not the issue, but more people fall on that side of the argument than ever before.

So, my point (that most seem to be missing) is that the technology itself is not what drove society to where it is now. It is the man who brought it to us, and that man is Bill Gates. There is no denying this.

Xerox had the programming idea and thought it was a waste of time. Gates saw a way to bring it to everyone, which drove the Internet infrastructure and so on.

Jobs saw the Walkman and found a way to make it cool. His integration between the iPod and his computers is what drove up his market share.

So, again, without Gates, there is no Jobs.

Apple has a long history of making very innovative, very “cool” products along with an equally long history of turning their backs on the majority of the business community.

In the mid-eighties I began working for a company that manufactured precision measuring equipment. Most of our competition used DEC or HP hardware and very cryptic, command based software. We had an intuitive, easy to use software product that ran on the Apple II and IIe and it sold like wildfire.

We were pretty excited when Apple introduced the Macintosh until we discovered that, unlike the Apple II and IIe, the Macintosh was a “closed” system with which we could not interface our hardware. They even went so far as to contractually prevent Torx, the manufacturer of the screws which held the Macintosh case together, from selling a driver long enough to reach the case screws. A couple of cuts and a couple of welds and we had a driver long enough to get us in there…only to find out that there was no way we would be able to interface with the Mac hardware.

We ported our software to the PC and never looked back.

Even when the more open Macs of the late 80’s and early 90’s were introduced our customer base was not interested.

When my 28-year-old son was in elementary school there were no computers other than Macs in any of his classrooms. By the time he finished high school at least half of the computers were Windows PCs. When my 20-year-old daughter was in high school every computer was a Windows PC other than perhaps a few in the art department.

When I asked why (a question to which I already knew the answer), I was told that the Windows machines were there because that was what students would move on to when they entered the workforce.

I have no idea why Apple chose the direction they did.

It is not likely that I will ever buy any sort of Macintosh because a) they will not run much of the software that I use; and B) they are ferociously expensive for what they do. I am not thrilled with my iPhone and especially not happy with the way it interfaces to my Windows PC. My next phone will probably be a Blackberry 10. I am not in love with iTunes but I am in love with my iPod and I hope it lives forever!

But overall I still love Apple!

Why?

Because their innovation has forced software developers, particularly Windows software developers, to work really hard at putting out a product that was elegant, functional and intuitive. Without Apple, Windows would probably still be the piece of crap that it was back in the 3.11 days!

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