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I would need to live with an Axe FX 2 for awhile to really make a judgement on how close it comes to capturing the "living-breathing" dynamic of a GOOD tube amp. From limited experience I think it's close. My benchmark experience is plugging in direct into a Marshall Bluesbreaker cranked about halfway up.

But I know better than to say that it's impossible to model. If someone would have said to me in high school that within my lifetime, my entire music collection of cassettes would fit on a portable phone smaller than the Sony Walkman I had, ALONG WITH several amp models and effects pedals that sound way better than the transistor amps of the era - I would have laughed.

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that's crazy labor intensive. when digital modeling can replicate the touch-feel dynamics of a good tube amp, not just the tone, tubes will truly be obsolete. We will probably see that day. Which will be good, because by then I'll be too old to lug around 100lb amps :P

That day passed with the Axe II.

I dunno - tube output and dynamics is another variable to the 'dark-art' equation that I'm not sure the sterile, digitial realm can bring to the table. To me, a tube amp is a 'living-thing' that offers different expressions dependent upon careful tube selection and bias adjustments - a single computer algorithm has captured all-that? I doubt it.

It's good enough for many international acts including Metallica and U2.
Fair enough, but it is obviously not good enough for the majority of recording artists.... yet.

Since there are a million such artists I believe you are correct. However maybe you've hesrd of s few that have:

http://www.fractalaudio.com/artists.php

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I've never heard of an Axe-FX before, but if somebody gave me one for free, I wouldn't be against selling it to somebody who has heard of it, for a good price. B):lol:

Edited to add: I did a little digging and found this website for Ei...looks like it hasn't been touched since 2002. At least I can see what tubes they USED to make. :(

http://www.eierc.com/rc/Default.htm

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I have on my desk next to me a custom-made, tube-powered headphone amplifier - for my ipod. This little blue MO-FO, when the JJ tubes get warm, is absolutely amazing.

You're taking something from the "sterile, digital realm" and turning it back into a "living thing" by sending it through the tubes?

So you're not really opposed to the Axe FX at all.

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I have on my desk next to me a custom-made, tube-powered headphone amplifier - for my ipod. This little blue MO-FO, when the JJ tubes get warm, is absolutely amazing.

You're taking something from the "sterile, digital realm" and turning it back into a "living thing" by sending it through the tubes?

So you're not really opposed to the Axe FX at all.

I'm opposed to people saying "the Axe FX sounds JUST LIKE a tube amp" without actually providing any real techincal proof that such a statement is accurate - again, show me the full signal waveform of both tube and Axe, side-by-side, on a quality spectrum analyzer, and we'll talk. Otherwise, I'm hearing marketing hype and that's it.

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I have on my desk next to me a custom-made, tube-powered headphone amplifier - for my ipod. This little blue MO-FO, when the JJ tubes get warm, is absolutely amazing.

You're taking something from the "sterile, digital realm" and turning it back into a "living thing" by sending it through the tubes?

So you're not really opposed to the Axe FX at all.

I'm opposed to people saying "the Axe FX sounds JUST LIKE a tube amp" without actually providing any real techincal proof that such a statement is accurate - again, show me the full signal waveform of both tube and Axe, side-by-side, on a quality spectrum analyzer, and we'll talk. Otherwise, I'm hearing marketing hype and that's it.

Feel free to miss out, it's fine by me. The ability to sculpture each part of each song as you would in the studio is awesome. Your loss.

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that's crazy labor intensive. when digital modeling can replicate the touch-feel dynamics of a good tube amp, not just the tone, tubes will truly be obsolete. We will probably see that day. Which will be good, because by then I'll be too old to lug around 100lb amps :P

That day passed with the Axe II.

I dunno - tube output and dynamics is another variable to the 'dark-art' equation that I'm not sure the sterile, digitial realm can bring to the table. To me, a tube amp is a 'living-thing' that offers different expressions dependent upon careful tube selection and bias adjustments - a single computer algorithm has captured all-that? I doubt it.

It's good enough for many international acts including Metallica and U2.
Fair enough, but it is obviously not good enough for the majority of recording artists.... yet.

Since there are a million such artists I believe you are correct. However maybe you've hesrd of s few that have:

http://www.fractalaudio.com/artists.php

Here is the quote from Alex Lifesons blurb about the AxeFXII.

"My tech, Scott Appleton, had been using the Fractal Audio AxeFX II and was encouraging me to give it a spin. He'd been behind the wheel for a couple of years with the Fractal gear and knowing how lazy I can sometimes be, took the initiative to pre-program the bulk of the songs we planned for the Clockwork Angels tour. He also used tone matching to create a gorgeous acoustic sound for the piezo installed in my Les Pauls, one that our FOH engineer, Brad Madix feels is one of the best live acoustic guitar sounds he's EVER heard…not bad from a Les Paul!"

I don't have a tech guy, I am more than happy with my modded SC XD I pick a sound I like and play. I guess I am not patient enough to play with all the options on a Axe unit looking for that perfect sound. By the time I find that sound I want something else and it takes me away from just playing.

Just my 2 cents.

love the video's too

Carl B

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I recently saw a video on Lifeson's stage rig. It's big and complex for sure, as one might imagine. There is an Axe FX in there as an emergency backup for the entire rig - I found that really interesting.

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I recently saw a video on Lifeson's stage rig. It's big and complex for sure, as one might imagine. There is an Axe FX in there as an emergency backup for the entire rig - I found that really interesting.

That is interesting, and it supports both Cynic's and my points. The latest generation of Axe FX is so good that it may be relied upon as a suitable replacement for a complex touring rig that has, at its heart, Lifeson's preferred means of amplification--tube amps.

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Alex got his own signature amp from Hughes & Kettner. If he goes with the Axe FX what is point of the amps? Just sample all the amps you want and you have them in one unit. Why buy a Slash or Kerry King model Marshall? This whole modeling thing could kill of some royalties from the sale of signature model amps. They NEED those amps on stage.

FWIW murkat let me play through his Axe FX. My playing level is not so great, but my hearing is OK. The Axe FX really is amazing at how real it sounds. If I were able to play loud, I would want to have a real amp just for smell of hot tubes and all the quirks. That is my preference. If I was in a touring band and responsible for my own gear, an Axe FX would be a good option. If there is a crew to load in a ton of gear and keep it all running, there would be no need to care what is there as long as it works.

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My point? I hadn't really made one :)

If I were, my point would be that 99.4% (give or take) of the people that are NOT the guitarist playing through their fancy rig (be it SS or valve) don't hear or feel any difference whatsoever, yet will claim to hear "nuance" whether it's there or not. It only matters to the guitarists who already know the "right" way and can't be persuaded.

I own and regularly play through an Axe-FX II and a Swart AST. The Swart does maybe 5% of what the Axe is capable of, and the Axe can easily do about 95% of what the Swart can. In terms of what I play, the Swart does well to cover about 30%. The Axe covers 100%.

I believe tube works better for some and SS for others, but with as far as modeling technology has come and the resulting versatility, I wouldn't pretend to be so arrogant to say one is better than the other. I do know what's better for me, however, and If anyone wants to buy the Swart, shoot me a PM. The Axe is not for sale :)

I do wonder how the digital signal from one's ipod can benefit so greatly from the presence of a tube power amplifier that it sounds absolutely amazing when the assertion is that the full-signal waveform is so different that the nuance has already been lost.

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I think you should use whatever makes you feel good , and not care about what anyone else uses. because feeling good about your tone is all that matters . whatever anyone else uses to achieve tonal bliss shouldnt matter at all.use whatever tool feel right, there is no absolute right or wrong

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I think you should use whatever makes you feel good , and not care about what anyone else uses. because feeling good about your tone is all that matters . whatever anyone else uses to achieve tonal bliss shouldnt matter at all.use whatever tool feel right, there is no absolute right or wrong

+1! It wouldn't be Rock 'N Roll if you didn't use gear in purposes and ways that it WASN'T intended for! ;)B):lol:

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Steve, sorry to contribute to further thread derailment, cool post btw.

I’ve been a tube amp player for decades, still like them and own one. (down from 5 before I bought an AxeFxII a few years back)

I think a key point that seems to be missing from the discussion is that the AxeFx doesn’t emulate an amp. It emulates the end result of an amp and speaker being mic’ed.

A more legitimate comparison would be to sonically isolate a tube amp, mic it and listen to the end result on studio monitors, headphones or a front of house setup. Pretty sure at that point the differences would be minimal to non existent.

That being said, the amp in the room sound was something I was used to, that’s what lead me to my current setup. (have to like a 2x12 cab that's less than 30 pounds.) It’s an all in one solution for any situation now.

Bottom line as stated before, use what best suits your needs and inspires you to play. That’s the most important thing anyway.

edit_zps6dafe973.jpg

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