Jump to content
Hamer Fan Club Message Center

Does gear REALLY matter??


Recommended Posts

something like ten years ago, I recorded a demo with my band in my bedroom. It was a MBox rig, Pro Tools 7 (? whatever was the cheap version then), Behringer 4 channel mixing board, generic cables, and so on. The singer used a lower-end stage AKG mic (made in Austria). 

drums were a ddrum electronic kit. guitar and bass went direct through a Pod XT Live. I used my main guitar, the Californian Doubleneck, which was loaded with Parallel Axis ceramic pickups. of songs I've written, this one is by far my favorite. we only got to perform it live a couple times. The recording never really got polished and finished to where I'd have been happy with it. The bassist committed suicide, and the band was already falling apart before that happened.

fast forward a decade. my wife suggests that I finish the song. We're in Nashville after all. Hire studio musicians, book some time in a top-notch studio, and just *finish* the recording. I'm in a very different place in my life, financially and otherwise, but my wife's suggestion was a good one - why not knock this one off the bucket list? "Do a complete pro recording in a Nashville studio."

ok, so I set up my rig, which I set up last year. Mesa Royal Atlantic, fully analog pedalboard and signal path.  Guitar cable is some $100 Mogami unit. Same guitar, but now loaded with SD Quarter Pounder singles, two of them wired in series that I call the Tobucker :) 

And the strangest thing...my lead tone in particular, was nearly indistinguishable from the old one, done in my bedroom. Not a big deal, I liked the original tone so the new one works. But it does raise the question - just how much does digital vs analog matter? nevermind the irony of spending thousands on a guitar rig, setup in a Nashville studio by a guy who knows a hell of a lot more than recording than I do, only to end up sounding EXACTLY like I did on an XT Live, run direct into a cheap mixing board and recorded on an Apple Mac G4....

Does this mean that careful programming of digital emulators is truly the equal of any imaginable rig? Maybe I should have just gotten a Kemper lunchbox thingie. Or does the guitar and unique EQ of a player's fingers matter far more than gearheads would like to admit?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 99
  • Created
  • Last Reply
27 minutes ago, tobereeno said:

Does this mean that careful programming of digital emulators is truly the equal of any imaginable rig? Maybe I should have just gotten a Kemper lunchbox thingie. Or does the guitar and unique EQ of a player's fingers matter far more than gearheads would like to admit?

I think you answered your own question in your previous paragraphs. Your touch/approach to playing happens (or happened?) to transcend whatever quality of gear you play through. I think many guys/gals in the "internet guitar webosphere" can honestly look back to what they were playing when they were coming up and might say, "hell, I got a pretty good sound with very primitive gear! I've all this STUFF now, but it may not essentially sound any better..."

Many have heard the story about when Ted Nugent asked EVH's roadie if he could plug into Eddie's rig at a stadium show soundcheck. He sounded just like "Ted", albeit with a flanger/phaser.

Roger Mayer said he used to travel with the JHE with multiple FuzzFaces. At one show, Jimi's screaming at Roger to swap out his fuzzbox. Roger complies, Jimi screams again to bring out another. Roger again complies. This happens five or six times until Roger finally plugged in the original box (unknown to Hendrix) that Jimi said was "bad." Jimi smiled, "now THAT'S what I'm talking about." Mayer said he shrugged and laughed it off. He quipped, "it's funny, but I think a lot of guitar players are like that."

Nice post, Toby. Lot's of food for thought, to be sure...

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This all definitely comes back around to tone is in the hands.  We sound how we sound, because that is how we sound.  Doesn't matter if its a Crate Palamino or a Dumble HRM, you are always going to sound like you.  With that said, at least you like your tone.

 

rock on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Digital caught up a while ago, as far as I'm concerned. That said, there is a learning curve involved. Impulse responses, full range/flat response monitors, miked vs. "in the room" sounds, it all takes some time to get your head around. Many go back to tubes over those issues. Others go back because of option paralysis ("I spent all my time tweaking and hunting for IRs/profiles and not playing!"). I never say never, but I'm at a point where I can't ever imagine going back to tubes.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know that tone is in the hands exactly, but when I get a new piece of digital gear, I dial in the same damn tones I've been dialing in for years now, so it makes sense that it would sound pretty much the same, especially when you're talking about listening to a recording and not touch-response and feel and bs like that. :D

-

Austin

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, it's me HHB said:

Tone is in the hands. Hands don't make your amp distorted or add a wah but the basic start is your touch. I'm so over gear, I crave skill and nuance

That is worth cutting out and hanging on the wall.

Every piece of signature gear guitar/amp/pedal I've ever bought sounds like me, and not the artist who endorsed it.  I can't believe how many of these things are defective lol.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess the POD did what it was advertised to do. :)

I always consider that the vast majority of all our favorite music was done the standard commercial gear.  I have yet to find a pedal or even a guitar that on it's own makes anywhere near the kind of difference that just adding an extra hour of practice every week would give me.  More often than not chasing gear just gets in the way.  And people don't even take time to learn the gear they get before flipping it because it's not the magic bullet they were hoping for.

Gear can make a difference.... certainly my Conde Hermanos flamenco guitar plays better and sounds better than my Yamaha flamenco.  But my teacher can play and sound better on my Yamaha than I can on the Conde.  The Conde certainly makes my experience of playing and practicing more enjoyable though.  But it doesn't make me a 15x better player based on the cost difference, that's for sure.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All I can say (from the perspective of a guy signed to a major label, who plays festival shows to crowds of 70,000 people, and who has toured 26 different countries in the last year alone) - is that three years ago, my stage rig consisted of 3 x Hughes & Kettner Coreblade heads, 6 x Marshall 4 x 12"'s with V30's and a pedalboard the length of a swimming pool. Since I'm also the keyboard player, I was also using 2 x Yamaha Motif XS7 and 1 x Roland GAIA synths through a 16-unit-high processor rack containing 2 x dbx 160A compressors, a Lexicon MX200 FX processor, a Rane 8:2 line mixer, a 4-channel BSS direct box, 2 x dbx 31-band graphics, a Furman power supply, 2 x Crown 1000-watt stereo power amps, and an active crossover. Onstage keyboard monitoring was via a 3-way active speaker system made by Martin Audio which was the size of a refrigerator.

Now - my guitar rig consists of a Kemper (carried onto a plane as hand luggage), DI'd straight to the PA. In a little side pocket there's my in-ear monitors and radio pack. The same little carry-on bag also contains a Macbook which has all my keys stuff set up as software plugins. I fire it all up using a MIDI control keyboard which weighs nothing and is similarly taken on the plane. It all sounds at least as good (if not better) than ever.

Go figure .......

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gear is fun. 

But I've gone from having several nice guitars and a boo-teek amp and fancy pedals and some vintage synths to

Four guitars and I only play one of them. And a Line 6 Firehawk FX either direct into the PA or through a $100 Acoustic bass practice amp. All the samples and stuff are done on the MacBook Pro. Linda has one Roland synth. So we can carry our entire live rig in a Mono guitar backpack and two padded briefcases, get set up in about five minutes, and get every sound we want, consistently.

It's liberating and fun, I think.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am planning on doing some gear demo recordings, mostly for my own edification, but I am planning on just using the Yamaha THR10. It sounds incredible.  So do my big 50-100 watt guitar amps, but they are just too freakin loud.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is a great thread. I love guitars, many I still sound the same as ever whatever I play on really, same old sloppy licks. 

I do love love love having guitars to play on that I lusted after when I was younger.

sound better? Maybe, does it make me feel better? Yeah probably :)

 

my favourite amp ever was a cheap Seymour Duncan 84-40, which was so dirty, and very portable for a valve amp. It was crackly and unreliable, but it just had loads of juicy gain that made my shitty playing sound decent to my ears.

 

i miss that thing.

 

on the other hand, I take a bit of pleasure about sounding the same on cheap old kit as on my Gucci stuff. Knowing how to set up  a modelling practice amp and what to play on a guitar that's not set up very well, can be rewardin...

 

...and importantly, good fun for showing off to beginners :) 

 

(compared to most of the HFC bods, I rank as a beginner!)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is very interesting and everyone's journey is different. When I got back heavy into electric in 2000, I went heavy into modeling. I still use the Tech21 Tri-AC for recording my bass. It works for that. Real well.

By 2005, I needed tubes. I had Lil Dawg make me a simple 5f1 tweed Champ and that did it. I have 5 quality tubers right now and I can express myself on guitar better through these particular amps better than I can via modeling or SS. I still sound like me on the other stuff, but I sound better on tubes. At least I can hear it. The responsiveness brings out nuances to my playing that wouldn't be as clearly heard. 

Discovering Hamers helped. Finally... a world-class guitar that I can afford and that FITs me. My Shishkov helps. Best guitar I have ever played, the neck is so right for my hand. 

Good pickups have helped me. 

So for me, a great guitar with great pickups through a good, vintage-circuit tube amp is how I can best express myself...clean or dirty. I think I get off on the sound, the response and I play better. I cannot imagine going back to SS or modeling. i could cut down amps to my 1 Watt Marshall JMP and my Blonde Bassman and be happy. Gotta have the Bassman cleans and just barely hairy and the Marshall JMP roar...(even  at 1 watt, lol). 

It doesn't make me a better player, but this gear makes me play better. Read that twice. 

Oh, my Cascade Fathead II ribbon mic with optional Lundahl transformer has radically transformed my recording capabilities. Everything records better through it in my home studio...aka bedroom, bathroom, etc.  That piece of gear makes my recordings better. 

Pedals, not so much. But they are fun!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

" Does gear REALLY matter?? "

Yes.

Yes it does.

Gear is an extension of one's self, expression.

Be it analog, digital, modeling, etc.

Evolution is real. We are experiencing it in our lifetime (as well as many other things).

A gigging guy, sure, this new tech is great.

Check this out~ http://bluguitar.com/

^ that sounds pretty fookin good, better than most of the same vein.

But me, having been down that road before (digital, modeling, etc.),

I prefer my organic analog toys. side by side, analog for the win every time.

But if I was out there gigging, touring, hell ya... Blug rig.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I completely agree.  I appreciate cool gear as much as anybody, but that isn't what makes you a better player.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it is too easy to say "Tone is in the fingers."

Much of tone is in the fingers, yes, but not all of it.

I like how I sound on my Roland MicroCube, but I love how I sound on my Peavey Bandit 110.

I like how my Carvin Bolt sounds, but I love how my Yamaha PAC 921 sounds.

Hand me a toy guitar, and I'm not going to sound like I do on my Diablo playing Running With the Devil.

Some of the things, like articulation, phrasing, pick attack, bend depth, etc, are going to be the same no matter what guitar you play on through no matter what gear. Those will always be identifiable as you.  But the actual sound wavelength is absolutely going to be different on different gear.

It has to be.

Put it this way: Take me and Jeff Gordon. Put us both in 2010 Mazda6s and race: he's going to beat me.  Put us both in a fully-tuned stock racing car, he's going to wipe me out. Put us both in the midget racers at one of those game raceways, and he'll still leave me in his dust.  But anyone watching is going to say Jeff still drives a car like Jeff, whether it is a family sedan, a fully-powered racing car, or the little mini-racers.  Still, there's going to be a huge difference how fast he goes.

His style will be recognizable, but the level and kind of gear will always impose limits on what you do with your own, individual style.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, gear matters.

Boiled down to it's barest essence, without it, you're playing air guitar. Literally.

Don't tell me gear doesn't matter. I'm not buying it.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess I should make a better response, which is that YES gear definitely does matter. Quality gear gets quality results. It doesn't have to be super fancy. But it needs to be well made. Guitars that have crappy action, bad resonance, and lame electronics  just don't work. I had a Yamaha RG2550E with the IBZ pickups, and no matter how hard I tried, I couldn't like the sound I got.

Then I got a Hamer Diablo. It was like Night and day. Those seymour duncan pickups killed it. I can see why now Ibanez has moved to using the Air Norton and Tone Zone on their RG Prestige series, and it's a good change.

Whether it's a high end boutique les paul type guitar, or a warmoth parts caster, if it's quality assembled with quality parts, you get good results.

Even though it is a modeller, the Yamaha THR10 is probably the best modeller I have played. The quality of modeled sound has REALLY gone up, to the point that if you are a gigging musician, and are your own roadie, you will me much better served by a modeller than super tube amp. You also can plug your modeller INTO your tube amp, if you really need to have the tubes. But in terms of flexibility, having a processor as opposed to a giant pedalboard is something I like.

Of course, nothing is quite like plugging into a 50 watt JMP Marshall half stack dimed with the two channels hard wired together. I FELT it. In my kidneys. I think I may have exploded some unsuspecting insects and small animals though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is easy for me to discern good gear from crappy gear, and there is no problem identifying great guitars.  The higher end stuff takes away excuses for not being able to get a great sound. 

Backing off of gear snob outlook, there are some really good mid priced Chinese guitars out there.  Many cheap basses have proven to be quite useful.  Amps seem to be the most touchy area as far as getting a good tone.  It seems that the better amps reveal sloppy technique more than the lower end amps.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While I totally understand what one means when they say tone is in the hands, I sometimes think that has more to do with only one aspect of tone (if it's really "tone" at all), otherwise why wouldn't EVH, or EJ, or any number of "tone chasers" simply settle on whatever is placed in front of them? Why is it we can distinguish between different eras of Eddie's tone? The fact that anyone can distinguish between different gear clearly means that a lot of tone is in the gear. 

So I'm just not really sure we're referring to tone when we talk about it being in the hands. Maybe it's actually just a certain feel, or style, or some abstract musical nuance that's hard to define. Something in the player's hands definitely brings a lot to the table, but is it "tone"? Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe we call it that in the absence of a better term.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, FGJ said:

While I totally understand what one means when they say tone is in the hands, I sometimes think that has more to do with only one aspect of tone (if it's really "tone" at all), otherwise why wouldn't EVH, or EJ, or any number of "tone chasers" simply settle on whatever is placed in front of them? Why is it we can distinguish between different eras of Eddie's tone? The fact that anyone can distinguish between different gear clearly means that a lot of tone is in the gear. 

So I'm just not really sure we're referring to tone when we talk about it being in the hands. Maybe it's actually just a certain feel, or style, or some abstract musical nuance that's hard to define. Something in the player's hands definitely brings a lot to the table, but is it "tone"? Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe we call it that in the absence of a better term.

+1 There are most definitely certain aspects of sound that can be and are influenced by the hands. However, the blanket statement that tone is in the hands is a lot of horse feathers. Tone, as defined by this: a musical or vocal sound with reference to its pitch, quality, and strength, can only be effected, to a degree, by one's fingers on the strings- pinch or natural harmonics, muted notes, pick attack etc. The rest HAS to come by way of gear. NO amount of digital (as in finger digits) manipulation can get the significant variations in tonal quality brought by gear. Try as I might, I cannot get a Martin acoustic to sound like a Strat run through an dimed Marshall. Period.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...