RobB Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 3 minutes ago, Ed Rechts said: WHAT???? Fixed! Sorry, Rechts. Didn't mean to besmirch your legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kizanski Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 4 minutes ago, Ed Rechts said: WHAT???? Yeah. I get blamed for everything around here! I was wondering what it would take to get you to surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cary Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 47 minutes ago, RobB said: Yeah, that's real! Sir Douglas/Ed Rechts bouts come to mind. Laugh-out-loud hi-LARIOUS! I thought it was Ed and AnDy. Maybe that was a different one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamerhead Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 I remember the pAnZy one. And I can't remember yesterday. A classic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobB Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Getting back on topic. I don't think there is a market share out there for a new HamerUSA startup. No one under age 30 knows/cares who Cheap Trick or Living Colour are. The few hundred HFCers that are still active guitar buyers...I dunno. Speaking for myself, it would be cool to see well-made, accurate reissues of classic Hamers. I would never purchase one, however, as original examples (excepting 4-digits) are still a relative bargain in the used market. The Frankenstein monster never asked to be resurrected from the body parts of other unwitting corpses. Best to let the dead RIP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studio Custom Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 46 minutes ago, RobB said: Getting back on topic. I don't think there is a market share out there for a new HamerUSA startup. No one under age 30 knows/cares who Cheap Trick or Living Colour are. The few hundred HFCers that are still active guitar buyers...I dunno. Speaking for myself, it would be cool to see well-made, accurate reissues of classic Hamers. I would never purchase one, however, as original examples (excepting 4-digits) are still a relative bargain in the used market. The Frankenstein monster never asked to be resurrected from the body parts of other unwitting corpses. Best to let the dead RIP. If you are starting from square one, why do so with a tarnished brand with no signature model? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucSulla Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 4 hours ago, Pieman said: JAM Industries eh? http://jamindustries.com/ They're like the JELLY Consortium, just with seeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KH Guitar Freak Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 1 hour ago, RobB said: Getting back on topic. I don't think there is a market share out there for a new HamerUSA startup. No one under age 30 knows/cares who Cheap Trick or Living Colour are. The few hundred HFCers that are still active guitar buyers...I dunno. Speaking for myself, it would be cool to see well-made, accurate reissues of classic Hamers. I would never purchase one, however, as original examples (excepting 4-digits) are still a relative bargain in the used market. The Frankenstein monster never asked to be resurrected from the body parts of other unwitting corpses. Best to let the dead RIP. That's the thing. There are so many famous guitarists out there in famous bands that used to play Hamers, but I doubt many would return to the fold so to speak even if given the opportunity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmatthes Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 19 hours ago, Texsunburst59 said: I know I'm not one of the REAL regulars here... Your opinion and comments are just as valid and valuable here if youve been a member for 20 years or 20 minutes. Your contributions and thoughts are always welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimiH Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 16 minutes ago, cmatthes said: Your opinion and comments are just as valid and valuable here if youve been a member for 20 years or 20 minutes. Your contributions and thoughts are always welcome. Although respect is earnt ✊️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwhitcomb3 Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 30 minutes ago, JimiH said: Although respect is earnt ✊️ That's right. You have the same opportunity to demonstrate you're a damned fool as we old timers had! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ting Ho Dung Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 I heard Heritage has new owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucSulla Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 13 hours ago, tmsfo said: This brings to mind an essay written by Bill Nash several years ago: "It may be a bit of a strange concept... I think this is an interesting argument, but I also still think it is an argument, not necessarily a fact. Fender has changed hands and changed plans, but it isn't as if they fired everyone each time the company changed hands, or as if Leo Fender was handbuilding every guitar prior to 1964. Yes, I know they had to buy a whole new factory in 1985, but it was still a group of folks who had been at Fender previously along with all the intellectual property. A strat isn't rocket science. I mean, think of what's in it and how they were made. You're going to seriously tell me that those folks could not have built a strat more-or-less identical to a 63 Strat? A guitar that was created to be cheaply reproduced over and over again? Poppycock! The whole genesis of the bolt-on neck without a headstock pitch was to enable mass production. It's like people getting pissy about rock music "selling out" when rock music was a very commercial enterprise from the word go. It also assumes that because guitar collectors think pre-CBS Fenders are the best that those strats were, by extension, the epitome of Leo Fender's vision for the strat. And there is at least evidence that that is a false assumption as Fender claimed that some of the strat-style guitars he was making at G&L were actually the best refinement of what he intended a strat to be. In a way, by bringing Leo himself into the mix, Nash is kind of having his cake and eating it too. If Leo Fender matters that much, what about G&L? If not, then why does his being at Fender matter that much after he came up with the original design? I don't want to create a false dichotomy here. There are certainly more ways to take that than just those two questions, but they kind of lept to mind. Mostly, my point is that Fender, at least as far as I know, while having many eras, also has an unbroken lineage back to the beginning. I happen to think institutional knowledge matters. If Ford wanted to make a 66 Fastback again, they could, and they could do it better than anybody else. I know this will be outrageous to some, but the Fender Custom Shop probably already turns out better guitars, guitar-to-guitar, than Fender did in the 50s. Even Leo Fender seemed to think the clamour for vintage Fenders was a bit odd. I can't find the exact interview, but he mentioned that all those guitars were basically grabbing a body, a neck, and parts out of a bucket, throwing it together, and having a guitar. What the Fender CS does is far more meticulous than what was going in back in 1957, no matter how much Bill Nash loves old Fenders. I know he talks a lot about imports too, but he also states directly that "No one has made a real Fender guitar since 1964." The big difference with a company that has changed hands and Hamer is that it seems any new version of Hamer would have no institutional inheritance. The main players in Hamer are all off doing other things - kind of the reverse of G&L where you have "the guy" but not "the name." The speculation that occasionally floats around here leans toward any new Hamer having "the name" but none of "the guys," or at least one of the big guys that it would take to even get us diehards to consider the brand somehow connected to the old brand. I don't entirely agree with Nash - I think FMIC can makes as real a Strat or Tele as they want when they feel like it, which is often because they can charge an arm and a leg for one - but I also think the situation with a new Hamer is different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murkat Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 28 minutes ago, Ting Ho Dung said: I heard Heritage has new owners. Nice try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimiH Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 40 minutes ago, jwhitcomb3 said: That's right. You have the same opportunity to demonstrate you're a damned fool as we old timers had! That's right but if you are new then making a fool of yourself makes people think you are a fool anyway. To get some real kudos earn some big time respect over the years then BOOM hit everyone with a "Hamer coming back" thread. Easy 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armitage Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 It would be cool if they let someone like Shishkov just run with them... a 1 to 5 man shop... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serial Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 1 hour ago, Armitage said: It would be cool if they let someone like Shishkov just run with them... a 1 to 5 man shop... He already is and he's killin' it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmatthes Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 3 hours ago, LucSulla said: I think this is an interesting argument, but I also still think it is an argument, not necessarily a fact. Fender has changed hands and changed plans, but it isn't as if they fired everyone each time the company changed hands, or as if Leo Fender was handbuilding every guitar prior to 1964. Yes, I know they had to buy a whole new factory in 1985, but it was still a group of folks who had been at Fender previously along with all the intellectual property. A strat isn't rocket science. I mean, think of what's in it and how they were made. You're going to seriously tell me that those folks could not have built a strat more-or-less identical to a 63 Strat? A guitar that was created to be cheaply reproduced over and over again? Poppycock! The whole genesis of the bolt-on neck without a headstock pitch was to enable mass production. It's like people getting pissy about rock music "selling out" when rock music was a very commercial enterprise from the word go. It also assumes that because guitar collectors think pre-CBS Fenders are the best that those strats were, by extension, the epitome of Leo Fender's vision for the strat. And there is at least evidence that that is a false assumption as Fender claimed that some of the strat-style guitars he was making at G&L were actually the best refinement of what he intended a strat to be. In a way, by bringing Leo himself into the mix, Nash is kind of having his cake and eating it too. If Leo Fender matters that much, what about G&L? If not, then why does his being at Fender matter that much after he came up with the original design? I don't want to create a false dichotomy here. There are certainly more ways to take that than just those two questions, but they kind of lept to mind. Mostly, my point is that Fender, at least as far as I know, while having many eras, also has an unbroken lineage back to the beginning. I happen to think institutional knowledge matters. If Ford wanted to make a 66 Fastback again, they could, and they could do it better than anybody else. I know this will be outrageous to some, but the Fender Custom Shop probably already turns out better guitars, guitar-to-guitar, than Fender did in the 50s. Even Leo Fender seemed to think the clamour for vintage Fenders was a bit odd. I can't find the exact interview, but he mentioned that all those guitars were basically grabbing a body, a neck, and parts out of a bucket, throwing it together, and having a guitar. What the Fender CS does is far more meticulous than what was going in back in 1957, no matter how much Bill Nash loves old Fenders. I know he talks a lot about imports too, but he also states directly that "No one has made a real Fender guitar since 1964." The big difference with a company that has changed hands and Hamer is that it seems any new version of Hamer would have no institutional inheritance. The main players in Hamer are all off doing other things - kind of the reverse of G&L where you have "the guy" but not "the name." The speculation that occasionally floats around here leans toward any new Hamer having "the name" but none of "the guys," or at least one of the big guys that it would take to even get us diehards to consider the brand somehow connected to the old brand. I don't entirely agree with Nash - I think FMIC can makes as real a Strat or Tele as they want when they feel like it, which is often because they can charge an arm and a leg for one - but I also think the situation with a new Hamer is different. Well stated. No DNA, no Hamer. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
django49 Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 16 minutes ago, serial said: He already is and he's killin' it! As much as I have enjoyed Hamers (a lot of them over the years) Mike has clearly taken it to the next level. And I say that confidently not even having TOUCHED one. Yet. Taking a step backward (Shishkov & Hamer = "Shamer"??) does not compute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmsfo Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 26 minutes ago, cmatthes said: Well stated. No DNA, no Hamer. Period. Agreed on both points. Can we get back to mindless quarreling now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cspot Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sled Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 The only Hamer USA guitar I will want is already owned by someone. Anything else is exploiting the name and marketing glitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamerhead Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 This is the weirdest damn bunch of jaded moth**fu***rs I've ever seen: On The Hamer Fan Club message board - a HAMER forum dedicated to the devotees of Hamer guitars - a member suggests the return of THE BRAND WE'RE ALL HERE FOR, and we tear him a new one. Anyone else think that's at least a little bit messed up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmatthes Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Actually, not really, but that's just MY personal opinion. Since it's a forum for discussion on the topic, it's fair game - either way. I think I share the opinions of many here (including every single one of the founders/original stewards of the brand), that Hamer as we knew it, is dead. Attempting to bring the brand back in 2017 would be a fool's errand for many of the reasons articulated in the thread above - no need to rehash here. Hamer was known for top-quality wood, construction methods and having the best in the biz putting heart and soul into them. Is that a romanticized view? Again, not really. If a Canadian company contracts with, say, Washburn or somebody, to try to reverse-engineer some of the classic Hamer designs in the USA, the formula would STILL be wrong. Some of the most valuable assets Hamer USA had as a brand were the exquisite wood stash (it was better than what PRS had at the time), and the incredibly talented crew who knew the ins and outs of Hamer's unique construction methods, perfected over 40 years. ALL of that is long gone now. Would the "Tommy Thayer" version of Hamer get it close, and maybe even generate new fans? Sure is possible...but I'm an Ace guy, personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamerhead Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 I get that it wouldn't be the same. But what if it were better? Did it go down hill when Paul left? It certainly wasn't the same. Or when it went through the move or the super-Strat hair-band phase? That was definitely different. And then to the modern/vintage thing. Best guitars ever (IMO). And what if Paul or Jol were involved? While I'm pretty sure that's not the case, would that make new Hamers acceptable to the hardcore old-school fanatics? Brands have to reinvent themselves all of the time. Sometimes it IS better. Having no details leaves it wide open to debate, but the pigpile on Greg for the suggestion isn't really necessary, is it? Hell, we should be happy that a hint at the revival of our brand exists, and be hopeful it could knock our dicks in the dirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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