Jump to content
Hamer Fan Club Message Center

Hamer Guitars USA might be coming back soon.


BCR Greg

Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, sonic1974 said:

But when they started, Hamers were more expensive than Gibsons, so your premise is a bit off there. 

The original goal of the company was to make vintage quality Gibsons at contemporary Gibson prices.

I think that's in The Book, but you'll have to wait for me to get home to confirm.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 588
  • Created
  • Last Reply
1 minute ago, Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame said:

 Make a production Californian set neck with LEDs, I think you could sell it at $1800 and still make a profit.

It's going to be hard to make that guitar in this country, employing human beings and still make a profit.
Remember, it has to be a big profit in order to be worth it to an investor. Just "turning a profit" isn't enough.

 

1 minute ago, Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame said:

The original goal of the company was to make vintage quality Gibsons at contemporary Gibson prices.

Yeah, but they didn't. New Hamers were much more expensive than new Gibsons of the same or like models.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, sonic1974 said:

But when they started, Hamers were more expensive than Gibsons, so your premise is a bit off there. 

True, there is no denying the luthier/boutique/hand-built price tag that the 4-digits carried. But by 1990, I think Gibson was the more expensive marque on comparable models. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A couple general observations about life that pertain to some of the commentary in this thread in particular and on guitar nerd forums in general:

1. Speculation about what products would be profitable and how much profit is required for a business to be sustainable is just that: speculation. There are so many variables that apply to individual businesses and industries that it's impossible to determine profitability or sustainability unless you're personally involved on a day-to-day or year-to-year basis.

2. People who say "give me an item with this, this and this and I'll buy that item immediately" suddenly tighten up the purse strings when that exact item becomes available. You can't base a business model on what people say they'll do on the internet. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, MCChris said:

2. People who say "give me an item with this, this and this and I'll buy that item immediately" suddenly tighten up the purse strings when that exact item becomes available. You can't base a business model on what people say they'll do on the internet. 

BAMF.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When was Hamer's most profitable time period? I remember back in the late 70's-80 and even into the 90's they had full page ads in magazines, back when that was the prefered advertising vehicle. They had big name endorsers that seemed to cover about any genre. I thought they had some ads highlighting their endorsers and it filled a full page with tiny famous names; impressive lineup! Anyone have a pic of that ad? All that stuff got me into Hamers, especially Cheap Trick using them. Were they the most profitable during this time?

They seemed to have such a good thing going back then. Did the decision to abandon shredders hurt their reputation? I know that type of guitar fell out of fashion for awhile so maybe that's not it, but maybe the refusal to get back into something they really excelled at was after they came back into fashion? Who decided to stop nearly all advertising and let the artist relations fall off?

Some companies have handled their import lines well, like G&L, PRS etc. The first Slammer Series guitars were quite good, but seemed like after that they went down in quality, even though some here liked theirs.

 

Does anyone have a "guitars produced per year" chart for Hamer. Not that volume equates to profit, but I hope they were making money back then!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, cmatthes said:

My point about the imports not doing shit for the USA brand - how many buyers/players/dealers in 2000-2014 had any idea that Hamer USA even existed?  That misunderstanding fell on a FAR larger scale than the handful of people here who started with an import and moved upstream to a USA Hamer.  In general, it caused confusion in the marketplace, and actually minimized the USA brand, and more people thought Hamer was an import only brand with a formerly innovative past.  Sure, the imports helped pay for the US line and keep it afloat, but in the end, maybe did as much to tarnish the image as the lack of advertising/promotion or relevant endorsers.  Keep in mind, this was after multiple perfect reviews, awards and kudos for every new USA Hamer model released - the workmanship in New Hartford was probably the best of all of Hamer's years in business too, but they weren't able to break out - either by design/strategy or bad timing.

This about sums up my feelings. I can see a future for a Hamer brand as a mid-level nostalgia based USA manufactured brand with maybe a few classic guitars (with little to no customization) being offered.... but as a full on boutique house I think brand familiarity runs both ways and that there's both too much to live up to and too much to live down for that to be truly successful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not sure what it takes to get through how the world works to some people, but one of the reasons Hamer wouldn't entertain doing any sort of Superstrat variants in New Hartford was because they simply couldn't build them and sell them for less than twice (and in some cases, 4-5 times) what NOS/mint used models were selling for.  That's not speculation nor conjecture on my part, that was directly from the mouths of three top dawgs AT Hamer.  Everything is far more expensive now than it was, even 20 years ago as they were preparing to move East to CT.   Even if they were to locate in the middle of Nowheresville, USA, square footage, outfitting a modern shop from scratch, designing prototypes and programs, getting decent quality wood (which will probably at best be the kind of stuff Hamer rejected), getting experienced hires and reliable trainees at 2017 labor costs, real-world marketing/promotional/advertisingbudgets and support (and a fucking identity that god-willing won't refer to a Phoenix!), and 1,000 other factors, should make a Us-domiciled re-start effort think twice.  Especially when probably more than half of the fans of the brand have never put their money where their mouth is and bought a new USA-built instrument.  If you never supported the brand before now, it's not really that likely you'll all of a sudden get religion.  When we posted here that Hamer USA was closing their doors to future orders and that there was a three-four month window to get in the door, I can probably count on the fingers of one hand the number of people who actually put up and not just whined about something they were never (ever) going to buy.  Maybe I'm jaded, but I've seen and learned a lot over the last two decades on this forum.  Nathan is never going to pay $2-2,500 for a Centaura or bare bones Californian when he can get 10 or 20 Yamahas or whatever.   The other fact is that the guitar that he thinks would be priced $1,500 will still likely be close to double that if made in the USA.  It doesn't get much more straightforward than an LP Jr. Type of guitar, an Hamer's take on that design is still one of the best. Unfortunately, even a decade ago they sold for @$2k, and are often resold in pristine shape for under $1,500.  

Hamer did SO much right, but I'm still not sure whether their decision to offer quality guitars that were more "musician wallet" friendly helped or hurt the brand.   

Also, to refute the point made above, in 1981 when I bought my first Les Paul Custom, which was pretty much at the top of Gibson's solidbody line, it listed for $1,175 and street price was $699 + extra for case.  A Hamer Standard was $1,500 without case, and wasn't sold at a discount.  The point Paul and Jol made about Hamer pricing was that they were @2x more than a comparable Gibson at the time, but in line with the growing value of a sought-after vintage piece.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, MCChris said:

A couple general observations about life that pertain to some of the commentary in this thread in particular and on guitar nerd forums in general:

1. Speculation about what products would be profitable and how much profit is required for a business to be sustainable is just that: speculation. There are so many variables that apply to individual businesses and industries that it's impossible to determine profitability or sustainability unless you're personally involved on a day-to-day or year-to-year basis.

2. People who say "give me an item with this, this and this and I'll buy that item immediately" suddenly tighten up the purse strings when that exact item becomes available. You can't base a business model on what people say they'll do on the internet. 

You're right, many people who claim to be interested won't pony up. But some would.  Enough to start a profitable company?

Probably not, but to actually start a company, the investors would have to have confidence of being able to expand beyond the current membership of HFC in any case. 

Let me put it this way: those of us expressing optimism in the idea of a reborn Hamer are predicating their optimism on the idea of providing quality guitars at competitive prices.  If you try to tell me the guitar market is already so perfect that it cannot be improved on in any way, I'll respectfully disagree.

If someone has an innovative idea that lets them establish and maintain good quality control at competitive prices, they'll gain a following and be profitable.  That's just economic sense. And if they produce a superstrat, I'll be willing to put my own money up to buy a new one. Depending on the attributes.

Now, *can* someone come up with an innovative idea to establish and maintain good quality control at competitive prices?

I don't think I'll ever bet against human innovation.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If Hamer comes back isn't it more likely we see it come back and get slip streamed into an existing guitar manufacturing line?  Not built from the ground up? Like Wednesday is Hamer day at the XXX guitar production factory?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Dasein said:

If Hamer comes back isn't it more likely we see it come back and get slip streamed into an existing guitar manufacturing line?  Not built from the ground up? Like Wednesday is Hamer day at the XXX guitar production factory?

Could very well be.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, cmatthes said:

Not sure what it takes to get through how the world works to some people, but one of the reasons Hamer wouldn't entertain doing any sort of Superstrat variants in New Hartford was because they simply couldn't build them and sell them for less than twice (and in some cases, 4-5 times) what NOS/mint used models were selling for.  That's not speculation nor conjecture on my part, that was directly from the mouths of three top dawgs AT Hamer.  Everything is far more expensive now than it was, even 20 years ago as they were preparing to move East to CT.   Even if they were to locate in the middle of Nowheresville, USA, square footage, outfitting a modern shop from scratch, designing prototypes and programs, getting decent quality wood (which will probably at best be the kind of stuff Hamer rejected), getting experienced hires and reliable trainees at 2017 labor costs, real-world marketing/promotional/advertisingbudgets and support (and a fucking identity that god-willing won't refer to a Phoenix!), and 1,000 other factors, should make a Us-domiciled re-start effort think twice.  Especially when probably more than half of the fans of the brand have never put their money where their mouth is and bought a new USA-built instrument.  If you never supported the brand before now, it's not really that likely you'll all of a sudden get religion.  When we posted here that Hamer USA was closing their doors to future orders and that there was a three-four month window to get in the door, I can probably count on the fingers of one hand the number of people who actually put up and not just whined about something they were never (ever) going to buy.  Maybe I'm jaded, but I've seen and learned a lot over the last two decades on this forum.  Nathan is never going to pay $2-2,500 for a Centaura or bare bones Californian when he can get 10 or 20 Yamahas or whatever.   The other fact is that the guitar that he thinks would be priced $1,500 will still likely be close to double that if made in the USA.  It doesn't get much more straightforward than an LP Jr. Type of guitar, an Hamer's take on that design is still one of the best. Unfortunately, even a decade ago they sold for @$2k, and are often resold in pristine shape for under $1,500.  

Hamer did SO much right, but I'm still not sure whether their decision to offer quality guitars that were more "musician wallet" friendly helped or hurt the brand.   

Also, to refute the point made above, in 1981 when I bought my first Les Paul Custom, which was pretty much at the top of Gibson's solidbody line, it listed for $1,175 and street price was $699 + extra for case.  A Hamer Standard was $1,500 without case, and wasn't sold at a discount.  The point Paul and Jol made about Hamer pricing was that they were @2x more than a comparable Gibson at the time, but in line with the growing value of a sought-after vintage piece.

You'd be surprised what I might do.

I spent $2k on a B-Way Mercury Head and don't regret it.  I've very nearly spent $1200 on a Carvin once or twice. I spent $1300 on a Gary Kramer Turbulence R29 Delta Wing last year.

I also see AAA bookmatched flame maple bodies on guitars selling new for $500, and Seymour Duncan pickups and Floyd Roses on guitars sold on new guitars for $800.

I certainly don't think you can get a guitar made by hand to Shishkov's standards with that level of customization for anything less than Shishkov charges.  He deserved every penny he gets, and most guitar makers might even exploit the reputation and charge more than he does.

I agree that's a dead end for a new guitar maker.


But there are so many improvements in guitar making technology since the 80s and 90s.

CNC makes so many things cheaper. Things that used to need to be made and fitted by hand can have tight tolerances at the push of a button.  There have probably been advances in making painting processes cheaper.  I agree that a master builder commands a high salary.  But the quality of work coming out of many different places (including boutique builders) demonstrate that you can teach anyone moderately skilled with their hands to produce high quality work fairly quickly. It takes good training, good tools, and really good leadership/management. But it can be done. 

So, yeah, I agree that if someone tried to start up a guitar company doing things the exact same way Hamer did in the 80s and 90s, they'd be bankrupt in weeks.  But there is no reason to start that way.  A new company can benefit from all the things that have been learned and developed over the decades of guitar making.

I just look at the quality Warmoth puts out and still makes a profit, and I still can't agree it would be impossible to make a quality guitar at competitive prices and be successful.  Not automatic success, of course, but again: I'm predicating this on the idea that BCR Greg has some idea how to boost profitability, increase the effectiveness of marketing, or otherwise find some other advantages besides just slapping the name "Hamer" on the headstock.


But maybe I'm wrong.  If he tries it, we'll find out.  If he doesn't, well, it was fun talking about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/13/2017 at 2:53 PM, cmatthes said:

You guys are missing (or ignorant of) the fact that Hamer was KAMAN's loss leader for well over 12-15 years.  THE HAMER BRAND LOST THE COMPANY MONEY. 

Chris, I kept meaning to come back to this comment, as I trust your knowledge and judgment on Hamer history. So...I have a question in response. At what point did Hamer begin losing money; meaning running operating losses on guitar manufacturing and sales? Any company can go under while selling a gazillion units of their product, but it would surprise me to find out that Hamer was increasing production numbers while operating in the red. Alas, stranger things have happened.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, gtrdaddy said:

 

Set Neck Californians with LEDs on the neck, because there aren't enough buyers on Earth to cover shop overhead for just one week.

No, but if you throw one LED equipped one in (with a commensurate upcharge for the mod) among that weeks' production total, it just has to find the right interested buyer.

Economies of scale combined with qualitative improvement from technological advances are the only way a new Hamer would work.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also: yeah, I LOVE the quality you get from Yamaha, but I have $8300 tied up in just 4 guitars, one new, three used.  For my special guitars, I only bought used because no one is making these guitars new at any price.  I would have bought new if new ones existed, and maybe even paid a premium for them...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is one qualified buyer's perspective.  I guess I'll write a lot again.

Like much of the other generational detritus of the boomer generation, guitars are one of those things where there are a lot more of them out there than people interested, a phenomenon that is only going to deepen barring something happening to make some genre of electric-guitar-based music as popular as Adele and staying that popular for a decade.  I think Gen X bled that pig dry though, to be honest.  The rock music we were creating and marketing from 1997 to 2002 or so, as we were reaching an age where we too were becoming irrelevant to popular culture, Papa Roach and Nickelback for instance, makes any of the low points in 70s rock look positively brilliant.  

Unlike all of us older folks who always had some awesome rock out there somewhere in a relatively mainstream way, by the time older Millennials were in grade school,  there was pretty much NO good, loud-ass rock out there.  If I'd grown up thinking Theory of Deadman and Puddle of Mudd were what rock music was all about, I'd think guitars were lame too.  That's not to say no one will want to play guitar in a band in the future, but it's never going to be like 1955, 1964, 1967, 1977, 1986, or 1992 again. 

Another big year that had nothing to do with music but everything to do with the market is 2008, the year that Baby Boomers (and older Gen Xers - my generation was actually hit the worst financially) learned that guitars are a really, really shitty investment strategy.  I know the high end vintage market has never recovered, and there is plenty of evidence that the high-end new guitar market - the "lawyer guitar" - has gone to hell as well.  

It's not an accident that, after basically owning only two guitars for almost 20 years, I got into buying guitars in 2013.  I myself finally had a little money by then, the Internet made finding most anything easy and efficient, and the used market was great.  And it's only gotten better really.  If you're patient, the American-made guitars you can find under a grand are ridiculous.  And while some things, say Gibson Explorers, have crept up a little as of late, other things, G&L Bluesboys, are cheaper than ever.  It's a buyer's market.

It would take something special for me to buy a guitar with no resale value new ever again.  Even used - There are two GJ2s on this board, one of which is mine, that would have been sold weeks ago at their current prices if they just said "Jackson" or "Charvel" on the headstock.  It doesn't matter that they are every bit the guitars of those brands and even have the DNA thing, the broader guitar world is just not all that interested.  If I had bought this thing new... oh my!  I would have gotten my face kicked in!  

Conversely, I just bought a 2009 Gibson SG for very reasonable money.  And here's the truth about Gibson - I can't remember the last time I played one so bad that I wouldn't be able to sell it with a clear conscience.  Hell, to be honest, it's been a long time since I played one that really sucked.  I've played some that were a little rough around the edges, and that might have been an issue if I was considering it new, but used, in good shape, with "Gibson" on the headstock, and with only $600-$900 in the instrument?  Unless you needed to get liquid tomorrow, you'll get most, if not all, of your money back out of that if you want to sell it.  The Gibson's I've bought in the past two years - a 2013 LP Trad, a 2013 Firebird, and a 2011 Flying V Trad - are actually what broke me of Heritage (sorry, Chris).  They're all just better guitars save maybe the 535 I owned. 

We can bitch about Gibby all we want, but the fact is that there is already an enormous supply of solid, set neck, 24.75 scale, American-made guitars out there for very reasonable money.  Go on Reverb or eBay and search for "Gibson."    While I do think that there is truth to the "never buy a Gibson before you play it" cliché, I also think that keeping that sentiment alive is a very useful tool for guitar builders that compete with them.  If I'm Hamer saying that in 1976 in an era of pancake bodies and three-piece tops, you bet!  But if I'm PRS trying to convince a kid that really loves Slash and Jimmy Page that he or she should really buy my version of a single cut instead...  Useful tool. 

And that's all before we get into the "deep cuts" like Hamer and, on the Fender side of the house, G&L. 

This is why I wouldn't particularly be interested in a new American guitar company that made reasonably priced instruments.  I can already buy all kinds of quality used stuff,  even boo-teekish stuff like G&L and GJ2 that can be found virtually new but after some other consumer has absorbed the initial depreciation.  Even straight-up boutique builds like Talladegas and Artists are out there. 

So why did I buy a Shishkov?  Well, I love Hamers, I wanted a custom build, and I sort of have the money, haha.  Mike is also making these things for a ridiculously reasonable price.  I'd hate to think what a similar build, built to my specs, by PRS would cost.  This is probably a once-in-a-lifetime purchase for me, which makes me worry less about what the guitar will be worth on the open market.  Even if it doesn't end up my number one, I'd have to be in dire financial straights to sell it. Every other guitar I own, I bought to use.  Sure, aesthetics and build quality factor in, but they are for playing.  This one is for playing as well, but the main reason I bought it is that I wanted to own one guitar that was as much about the art of working with wood to create a beautiful, musical instrument as it is about banging out Red House at an open mic night jam.  The guys at Hamer were masters, and if you love guitars as art, here's a chance to snag a Degas. You even get to pick the theme of the painting! Unique set of circumstances, no?

How does this play into not just restarting Hamer, but any US guitar brand?  

If I want a good, American made guitar, there are already more out there than I can sort through in one lifetime.  

If I want some security in being able to sell something if I don't like it, there is a wealth of guitars that either have solid branding OR have already been depreciated enough that it isn't a huge financial risk if I decided that I needed to move it on down the line. 

If it is all about the art of the guitar and no other consideration, that already exists too.  Hamer is an interesting study because so many people knew - like literally knew - the guys making these guitars and were far more loyal to those builders than the name on the headstock, which is a bit rare.  Mike had to spend pretty much no time convincing the serious Hamer nuts that his guitars would be steeped in the tradition of Hamer because we already knew if he was building them that they had to be.  He came out with a ripping deal for the Ultimates, and by all accounts, those builds exceeded expectation.  Then he starts offering his own designs that look equally as drool-worthy at a very competitive price, at least in my opinion.  

The Classic Hamer Lover market is not a big market, I'd imagine.  It's probably just big enough to give one guy with a small shop a good shot at having a solid start to his own company.  It was a cool opportunity because, as it turns out, we never were brand-loyal.   We were builder loyal.  Mike got there first and is currently serving the shit out of that market.  And hopefully, we'll give him enough business to sustain him while he builds a name outside of the Hamer geeks.  

So given all of this contained in this overly long tribute to my ability to ramble with only limited coherence - who is the market for any US made guitar that is not already being served?  Is it actually big enough to support people building instruments for it full time?  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, LucSulla said:

who is the market for any US made guitar that is not already being served?  Is it actually big enough to support people building instruments for it full time?  

Guitar-based rock music is experiencing a resurgence in Taiwan. I think I'm beginning to see the signs of China following suit. I think guitar-based rock and roll never fell quite as far out of favor in Japan, Korea and the Philippines.

The US has a population approaching 350 million. The rest of the world is over 7 billion now, right? It isn't the only market for guitars.  Maybe there is (or will be) a market premium overseas for US-made guitars?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great points.

I also see more if a future for the higher cost, boutique builder than a new "utility" brand - even with a distinct history.

Keeping a roof overhead is always a concern, but you're not beholden to the bean counters and shareholders that have killed or decimated many great ventures.  You can be more nimble and creative if you can find a formula that works.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, LucSulla said:

So why did I buy a Shishkov?  Well, I love Hamers, I wanted a custom build, and I sort of have the money, haha.  Mike is also making these things for a ridiculously reasonable price.  I'd hate to think what a similar build, built to my specs, by PRS would cost.  This is probably a once-in-a-lifetime purchase for me, which makes me worry less about what the guitar will be worth on the open market.

At this point I'd buy a Shishkov without any hesitation. I currently trust no other builder and I've never met or talked to Mike - I just know what I see and what I've seen and read has inspired that confidence.  Anything else would have to be a try & buy purchase (or some ridiculously once in a life time low $ opportunity thing). But as far as custom -- Mike's got my vote.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, cmatthes said:

I also see more if a future for the higher cost, boutique builder than a new "utility" brand - even with a distinct history.

This I will have to chew on. My assumption was that the lesson learned from Hamer was the opposite. If not, then, well, I'm wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, cmatthes said:

Not sure what it takes to get through how the world works to some people, but one of the reasons Hamer wouldn't entertain doing any sort of Superstrat variants in New Hartford was because they simply couldn't build them and sell them for less than twice (and in some cases, 4-5 times) what NOS/mint used models were selling for.  That's not speculation nor conjecture on my part, that was directly from the mouths of three top dawgs AT Hamer.  Everything is far more expensive now than it was, even 20 years ago as they were preparing to move East to CT.   Even if they were to locate in the middle of Nowheresville, USA, square footage, outfitting a modern shop from scratch, designing prototypes and programs, getting decent quality wood (which will probably at best be the kind of stuff Hamer rejected), getting experienced hires and reliable trainees at 2017 labor costs, real-world marketing/promotional/advertisingbudgets and support (and a fucking identity that god-willing won't refer to a Phoenix!), and 1,000 other factors, should make a Us-domiciled re-start effort think twice.  Especially when probably more than half of the fans of the brand have never put their money where their mouth is and bought a new USA-built instrument.  If you never supported the brand before now, it's not really that likely you'll all of a sudden get religion.  When we posted here that Hamer USA was closing their doors to future orders and that there was a three-four month window to get in the door, I can probably count on the fingers of one hand the number of people who actually put up and not just whined about something they were never (ever) going to buy.  Maybe I'm jaded, but I've seen and learned a lot over the last two decades on this forum.  Nathan is never going to pay $2-2,500 for a Centaura or bare bones Californian when he can get 10 or 20 Yamahas or whatever.   The other fact is that the guitar that he thinks would be priced $1,500 will still likely be close to double that if made in the USA.  It doesn't get much more straightforward than an LP Jr. Type of guitar, an Hamer's take on that design is still one of the best. Unfortunately, even a decade ago they sold for @$2k, and are often resold in pristine shape for under $1,500.  

Hamer did SO much right, but I'm still not sure whether their decision to offer quality guitars that were more "musician wallet" friendly helped or hurt the brand.   

Also, to refute the point made above, in 1981 when I bought my first Les Paul Custom, which was pretty much at the top of Gibson's solidbody line, it listed for $1,175 and street price was $699 + extra for case.  A Hamer Standard was $1,500 without case, and wasn't sold at a discount.  The point Paul and Jol made about Hamer pricing was that they were @2x more than a comparable Gibson at the time, but in line with the growing value of a sought-after vintage piece.

That's nice, but....

When Shishkov announced that he was taking-orders for an introductory line of Chambered Standards, he not-only 'sold-out' of that run, but increased his output to meet the surprise demand.  And all that money happened in less-than one week, with zero advertisement in any national publication.  I recall there being people begging for details and checks being sent sight-unseen.  Mike's future looks VERY bright.

Some of us 'got religion' when our wallet allowed it - I had 3-4 Hamer USA guitars two years ago, and now I have around 12.  I have not considered, quite honestly, of purchasing any other make regardless of age, endorsement, or value.  I never say never, but....nothing else seems special or sounds special or looks special so why bother.  Let's not pretend as though the money isn't "out there" - last I heard, Suhr hasn't gone belly-up, and I have no clue why there are so many people ponying-up such big-dollars for a strat derivative or something artificially 'relic'ed'.  But that market is very large.  Any enterprise that can scale their output to chase the market demand they desire will find some customers if the quality and value is 'there'.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame said:

Guitar-based rock music is experiencing a resurgence in Taiwan. I think I'm beginning to see the signs of China following suit. I think guitar-based rock and roll never fell quite as far out of favor in Japan, Korea and the Philippines.

The US has a population of 350+ million. It isn't the only market for guitars.  Maybe there is (or will be) a market premium overseas for US-made guitars?

As far as China - If I'm going over there, I'm not sure I'd sell my guitars as a musical instrument per se.  I'd sell them more as a lifestyle brand, which actually says a lot about why Gibson does some of the things that they do now that I mention it.  I know from working in booze at the same time China began dominating the whisk(e)y market that It's an upwardly mobile market where what the product says about you matters more than the way it dances on your tongue.  In the automobile industry, Buick in China is a good case study:

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-chinese-buyers-love-buick-2013-4

I'm not saying there is no market there.  With 1 billion-plus people there, it's not like they're aren't plenty of possibilities.  However, if the attraction to foreign goods is there quintessence and the status that comes from that, it's going to take a good message to get around the built-in advantages Gibson and Fender already have.  I also know from having done a Ph.D. where half of my cohort was from China and South Korea* and emphasizing in advertising and public relations, brand recognition is HUGE over there - absolutely huge.  For those with money (or those wishing to appear to), conspicuous consumption is the name of the game. 

*Note - My own Ph.D. is only relative in that it put me in a position to meet people from over there and get to hear them explain all of this first hand.  Not trying to trot that out as if I am more an expert on branding in Asia than anyone else here. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, LucSulla said:

As far as China - If I'm going over there, I'm not sure I'd sell my guitars as a musical instrument per se.  I'd sell them more as a lifestyle brand, which actually says a lot about why Gibson does some of the things that they do now that I mention it.  I know from working in booze at the same time China began dominating the whisk(e)y market that It's an upwardly mobile market where what the product says about you matters more than the way it dances on your tongue.  In the automobile industry, Buick in China is a good case study:

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-chinese-buyers-love-buick-2013-4

I'm not saying there is no market there.  With 1 billion-plus people there, it's not like they're aren't plenty of possibilities.  However, if the attraction to foreign goods is there quintessence and the status that comes from that, it's going to take a good message to get around the built-in advantages Gibson and Fender already have.  I also know from having done a Ph.D. where half of my cohort was from China and South Korea and emphasizing in advertising and public relations, brand recognition is HUGE over there - absolutely huge.  For those with money (or those wishing to appear to), conspicuous consumption is the name of the game. 

True.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...