Steve Haynie Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 There is a resistance to Richlite™ that is understood, but has anyone here had any experience with it? Flaxwood guitars and guitars made with carbon fiber have had moderate acceptance. Martin has been using alternatives to wood on some of their lower priced guitars without hiding what they are doing. Martin used what amounted to countertop laminate on some of their lower priced special edition guitars. Richlite can be used for countertops, too. Martin and Gibson are using Richlite instead of real wood which comes across as a great sin. Both of those manufacturers have to look at the cost of materials when pumping out guitars in great quantities, plus they are under scrutiny over their wood supplies. Remember when Gibson was raided? There are purists who must have bone nuts and saddles, but several manufacturers use Graph Tech and Tusq nuts and saddles. Our beloved Hamers have had Graph Tech nuts. We are not entirely opposed to synthetic materials. So, has anyone doing repairs had trouble refretting a Richlite fretboard yet? Is it hard to re-radius? For those who have played a guitar with a Richlite fretboard, does it feel drastically different? Does the tone change drastically? Most of all, is Richlite really bad or just different in the same way that graphite is different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studio Custom Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 I have this guitar that has such a fingerboard. To me it feels and plays like ebony. It is too new to have had any work done on it, but when I researched the topic I did not see an out pouring of complaints about working with it. It seems to be made of similar stuff as pegboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prototype-fan Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 I've been wondering about the same issues with Richlite. A few other questions I have : Is Richlite cheaper than ebony and rosewood? If it is cheaper, shouldn't that be reflected in the price of instruments? What about durability and lifespan? Will Richlite degrade over time? If so, how fast? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cynic Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 2 minutes ago, prototype-fan said: Is Richlite cheaper than ebony and rosewood? If it is cheaper, shouldn't that be reflected in the price of instruments? Gibson did a Richlite writeup when they started using it in order to help potential buyers understand why it's better than ebony (their words). In it, they stated Richlite was actually a more expensive material than ebony. I can't vouch for their accuracy/honesty though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixesandsevens Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 39 minutes ago, cynic said: Gibson did a Richlite writeup when they started using it in order to help potential buyers understand why it's better than ebony (their words). In it, they stated Richlite was actually a more expensive material than ebony. I can't vouch for their accuracy/honesty though. Plus it's clear that Gibson favors "value pricing" of their products, so as long as they more-than-cover cover cost-of-goods, they're happy to keep the extra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Haynie Posted May 31, 2017 Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 Some people wear spots into fretboards with their fingernails or maybe some kind of Toxic Avenger sweat coming from their fingertips that eats away the wood. How well Richlite holds up and resists such wear is something we are going to have to wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadringer Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 I have one guitar with Richlite, and it's a newer Gibson Axcess Custom. I feel in love with the top and went for it. All of my other guitars have real wood fretboards. Yes it feels like ebony, but it doesn't get those white streaks in it like ebony can over time. It is odd because it has no grain whatsoever in it, because it's not wood. My hands don't notice a difference and it plays just fine. Would I rather have ebony on it? Yes of course, I prefer my guitars made out of wood. How will it hold up over time? I have no idea. It mimics ebony sure, but something about a Gibson Les Paul Custom should have ebony on it. Maybe it's just tradition or the purist in me, but that's how I see it. Would a guitar having Richlite convince me 100% not buy it? Obviously no, but it really depends on the guitar. I guess as ebony sources deplete in the future we'll see more of this kinda stuff. Especially with what's going on with rosewood. I think Gibson should strike some kind of deal with Bob Taylor and get back to using ebony. Taylor was definitely smart in buying the plant where he sourced his ebony from. It would seem that customer demand/complaints would require Gibson to go back to ebony, but Henry seems to think otherwise. It's his way or the highway from what everyone says online. Heck, if you want a Gibson with ebony now, they charge an arm and a leg for it. I just don't understand why Epiphone can use ebony, but Gibson acts like it's too rare or hard to get and they charge accordingly to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorch Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Actually, it really doesn't matter on the materials if the guitar as a whole sounds great. The 'new' materials pop up for various reasons. I think it is just still unusual to see unwooden guitars and people tend to stay conservative. Is anyone complaining about artificial materials being used for car interiors? Car interiors used to be made from natural materials having lots of wood included. Personally, I'm tending to stick to Hamers. No reason to look elsewhere. There are plenty of opportunities for great scores out there, although, I'm kind of blocked buying from abroad now for CITES reasons. Gratefully, I had scored 2 guitars last year. Look at this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armitage Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 I have four guitars with Richlite, and while I'd prefer they were ebony, for the sole reason of being real wood, I don't have a problem with it and actually cannot tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBraz Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Whilst I have no experience of it I have absolutely no desire to own a guitar with anything but a wood fretboard. In fact, on purely purist values, I'd avoid it like the plague. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmatthes Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 I think much of the pushback is that Gibson is building traditional guitars that were designed in the 1950s, and that's what people want from them...same with Martin, but much earlier, of course. Customer perception, and people fear change. Richlite IS cheaper than Ebony, I don't care what Henry & Co. say. It's paper impregnated with a phenolic resin and then molded. I had a late '80s Ovation that had a Phenolic ("Ebanol")...RICHLITE fingerboard. It felt fine, looked like jet black ebony and I never had any issues with it. It just felt a little waxier, if that makes sense. Decent stuff, but I had no problems with it being on my Ovation acoustic or the Ovation Magnum Bass I played for a while in High School. On a ludicrously priced Gibson Les Paul Custom, I don't want it. Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchee Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Starting from the beginning, I Googled Richlite, and their official website says it's 'composed of approximately 65% FSC®-certified or recycled paper content and 35% phenolic resin': http://www.richlite.com/what-is-richlite/ OK, I know what paper is, but what is phenolic resin? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenol_formaldehyde_resin Got an old tube (I'm talking 1940s or 1950's era) radio with a Bakelite case? How about old tubes? Odds are, the tube bases might be made from Bakelite as well. I don't know how evolved Richlite is from Bakelite, but I have found that old Bakelite can be brittle, and seems to have an odd sickly-sweetish odor when it's old. New Bakelite? I don't know, as I don't think I've ever encountered NEW Bakelite. Is Richlite anything like Bakelite? I have no idea, and apparently the only way to find out if it's alike or similar or not is to actually USE it. As far as wood goes, it seems like scarcity goes in cycles. First, it was Ebony that was recently getting scarce (see Bob Taylor's video on Ebony), then the new CITES rules on ALL Rosewood came along...and with that, FMIC announced that their 'American Elite' series is going to Ebony (see here: If anything, I think that Henry and Gibson is just keeping on a low profile, considering the history and bad luck they've had with wood imports in the past. But that's just my two cents, I'm just guessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrjamiam Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 8 hours ago, prototype-fan said: Is Richlite cheaper than ebony and rosewood? If it is cheaper, shouldn't that be reflected in the price of instruments? It will definitely be reflected in the resale value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff R Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 https://shop.ecosupplycenter.com/products/richlite-ebony-guitar-fingerboard-blank-22-x-4 http://www.lmii.com/products/mostly-wood/fingerboards/east-indian-ebony-fingerboards http://www.lmii.com/products/mostly-wood/fingerboards/ebony-fingerboards http://www.lmii.com/products/mostly-wood/fingerboards/rocklite-fingerboards - is this re-branded Richlite? Regardless, if Gibson says Richlite is more expensive than ebony, they are either getting screwed by their RL vendor or getting ebony for a song from that source. I haven't had a refret request on Richlite yet, unsure if I'd take the gig actually. But if one surfaces any time in the future, I'll report back. As for my opinions, I have no bias towards composites on guitars in general (I love Steinberger GMs and my brief stint owning a Parker Fly Deluxe was quite pleasing), but I'm like Chris ... if I'm spending "good Les Paul" money, I want it to be made out of historic traditional wood species or something damn close. My '76 LP is a maple neck and I'm just fine with it. Then again, it was cheaper than a modern "good Les Paul." And now that I think about it, I'd probably love a modern CITES-era LP Standard with a pau ferro board. I wouldn't be surprised if that's been on the drawing board before Fender canned much of their rosewood consumption for PF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cynic Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 I may need to amend what I stated above. Here is the blurb i was thinking of. Rather than saying Richlite is a more expensive material, they say it's more expensive to build a guitar using Richlite. Again, i can't vouch for their accuracy/honesty, but i can't imagine it would be harder on tools or add time to the build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARM OF HAMER Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 4 hours ago, cmatthes said: I think much of the pushback is that Gibson is building traditional guitars that were designed in the 1950s, and that's what people want from them...same with Martin, but much earlier, of course. Customer perception, and people fear change. Richlite IS cheaper than Ebony, I don't care what Henry & Co. say. It's paper impregnated with a phenolic resin and then molded. I had a late '80s Ovation that had a Phenolic ("Ebanol")...RICHLITE fingerboard. It felt fine, looked like jet black ebony and I never had any issues with it. It just felt a little waxier, if that makes sense. Decent stuff, but I had no problems with it being on my Ovation acoustic or the Ovation Magnum Bass I played for a while in High School. On a ludicrously priced Gibson Les Paul Custom, I don't want it. Nope. I agree...............on lower priced models where the builder needs to have cost considerations regarding materials used in line with what the guitar will sell for I completely understand that. On a high dollar guitar you would have to believe that only the best woods and other things that make it a $$$ guitar would be used in keeping with the selling price of the instrument. The old you get what you pay for concept.............which unfortunately is not always true. I had a Steinberger and Modulus Graphite, they did what they were suppose to do and were excellent instruments for what they were...................I have just always been believer that guitars............really great guitars should be made out of the best WOOD, not to say that other things can't be used...........just my preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Haynie Posted June 1, 2017 Author Share Posted June 1, 2017 If Richlite wears out tooling faster than ebony you can make the argument that it is more expensive. Going back to crunchee's comparison to Bakelite, if Richlite starts to break down decades from now then there will be a need to find something else for fretboards, perhaps real wood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundersteel Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 My Midtown Deluxe has the Richlite fretboard. I knew this before I bought it, so I was a little skeptical. However, after closely looking at it and playing it a lot, I can tell no difference between it and ebony. Of course, I'd rather have real wood, but I wouldn't hesitate buying another guitar if it has Richlite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stobro Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Back in the early '80s Peavey made some guitars with phenolic fretboards as an inexpensive alternative to ebony. As I recall, they stopped using it when they discovered it responds to changes in humidity much differently than the maple they used for their necks. Complaints came in from customers who could not get their necks to straighten out. Maybe the formula for Richlite is closer to real wood than what Peavey used. I guess time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie G. Moseley Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Owned several Kramer basses back in the day with Ebonol (bowling ball material) fretboards (and aluminum necks w/ wood inserts). Fretboard played fine but they were too neck-heavy for me, other than the headless Duke, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polara Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Does it perform the necessary function? Is it durable? I don't give a rat's patootie what a guitar's made of if it sounds good and is comfortable to play. If it keeps us from running out of some kinds of trees and/or lets me carry a guitar internationally and not get in legal trouble, even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biz Prof Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Steve Haynie said: Some people wear spots into fretboards with their fingernails or maybe some kind of Toxic Avenger sweat coming from their fingertips that eats away the wood. How well Richlite holds up and resists such wear is something we are going to have to wait and see. This scenario reminds me of a This Old House series from years ago where Dick Silva and the guys were fawning over a state-of-the-art synthetic slate (it was rubber) roofing product. They went on and on about the 50+ year lifespan, ease of installation, etc. And the shit was pricey, too. Fast forward a couple of years... The guys are BACK at the same house replacing those wonder shingles, which had become brittle and failed. The manufacturer had--you guessed it--gone out of business. I think Richlite will fare better, alas, only time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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