Combo w/ a second cabinet - why?

[Montelovesco]

It took some time, but it looks like I am gonna stuck with my Koch Twintone and sell my Carvin V3M head instead (will be listed here soon, so watch out... 😎).

So now I got a speaker cabinet (Palmer, 1x12) - I COULD attach it to the Koch combo, but I wonder: What is it good for to add a cabinet to a combo - beside more weight, of course? "More" sound? Any experiences?

Thanks

Daniel

[django49]

Two different speakers/speaker cabinets can work well together, to sound "bigger", offset any shortcomings either speaker has, etc. For example, combining an open or semi-open back with a closed back.

My latest experiments include building "2 x" cabinets that combine different types into a single cabinet for the same effect. For example, a "Thiele." "Forte 3D" and/or Two Rock-style semi-open in various combination, mixing and matching different speakers. Thus far, I am very pleased with the way they are turning out. I especially like the way the "Forte" type mixes with others to disperse the sound to great effect.

[bubs_42]

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. You just have to try it and find out. One of my favorite cabinets of all time is the verticle Mesa Boogie cab that is open on top and ported on the bottom. What a great cabinet it is. I've tried this combination out a few times, but it never made a big enough difference to justify moving the extra cab. Its like mixing speakers my sound great and fill the voids of the other speaker but you still only 99 percent of the time mic one speaker. 

[tomteriffic]

Back to the combo/extra cab equation, besides mixing speakers, one big reason to do it is better onstage coverage.  It's not necessarily more volume, just the ability to be better heard at the same volume.  The guy on the other side of the stage can hear you a little better too, one you balance things out.  And you can just grab one box for smaller gigs, add the second cab for bigger ones.

Be careful of impedance mismatches, though.

[Jeff R]

My latest experiment with my Boogie vertical widebody closed-back 2x12 is worth consideration. I have an old and worn-in nicely 70-watt Celestion from 1982 that I love. I decided to pair it with a basically brand new one from another amp in the shop  - harvested speaker was one year old and nicely broken in. The old one (which we'd assume is looser and "tired" and is definitely warmer to my ear) is in the slant top. The new one - which I'd assume is tighter and brighter because it hasn't been vibrating at excruciating volumes for decades - is in the bigger volume straight bottom. I don't know if it's a grail setup but it's definitely good enough that it ended what was turning in speaker swap ritual every month or so. This is the best speaker pairing for the Mark III I've put together so far.

[Lockbody]

Mating a combo with a closed-back cab has been a longtime mainstay with Mesa/Boogie. Usually a Mark-series combo with an EVM-12L loaded Thiele. The combination of the focused, ported Thiele with the openness of the combo makes for a huge tone. I did almost the same thing with my SamAmp, but it wasn't a Thiele.

The Mesa/Boogie Halfback 2x12 and 4x12 cabs were a take on that idea. The bottom speaker/s are closed (and ported in the 2x12 cab), and the top is open. I currently have a 2x12 that I use with my Mk IV, and while not quite as massive of a sound as a 4x12, it's close enough I don't miss not having one.

SamAmp

 

I thought I had a pic of the completed setup, but here's my old Mk IV and Thiele cabs.

[django49]

The "Boogie" example is a good one. One of my latest experiments is to use two 10" speakers with high power handling capability in a scaled down pine cabinet for reduced weight, with the Thiele-type below and Forte-type above. The Forte style combines the best of open and closed back (IMO) but the Thiele style adds "thump".

[bubs_42]

I have two 2x12's loaded with 4 different speaker and another 1x12 with a 5th speaker. My next venture is 10's, I'm ordering up a ported 2x10 from Mathers. I really like 10's, WGS, EMI and others have cure all the bad things I have heard about 10's because they sound Tight, Punchy, and have great note separation. 

[django49]

36 minutes ago, bubs_42 said:

I have two 2x12's loaded with 4 different speaker and another 1x12 with a 5th speaker. My next venture is 10's, I'm ordering up a ported 2x10 from Mathers. I really like 10's, WGS, EMI and others have cure all the bad things I have heard about 10's because they sound Tight, Punchy, and have great note separation. 

You might also look into the Celestion TF-1018. Technically a hi-fi MIDRANGE speaker, it fits right into the range of an electric guitar and has 100 watt capability, though it is a bit less efficient than a typical guitar speaker. There is a reason such as Quilter seem to like to use it (and its smaller 8" sibling) for a big sound in small closed cabinets. My one remaining incomplete project is to use a pair in a Thiele-type below, semi-open type above to see how they blend. Sort of a scaled down variation of the "Boogie" theme.

BTW, they are $60 each.

[Bloozguy]

I had a Mesa DC-2 1x12 combo with a standard Mesa 1x12 extension cab...sounded huge.

And a Mesa Maverick 1x12 combo with a Mesa EVM12L Thiele cabinet...sounded even better.

And did an outdoor gig with my Juke Warbler 1x12 & 2x10 combo on top of a JBL 1x15 cabinet. Darn near every speaker imaginable...wish I had a photo of that setup.

[The Shark]

Is this the Boogie cab everyone's talking about?  I've been looking for a good clean one for a long time.  I have a .50 Caliber head w/ EL-84s (rare) and have had no luck finding the cabinet.  I have a 25wt greenback and an EV-12-L in boxes waiting.  I used to play my '59 Tweed Deluxe through one of them.  Fantastic.

[Jakeboy]

Shark, didn't the EV WAAAAY overpower the greenie?

[django49]

1 hour ago, The Shark said:

Is this the Boogie cab everyone's talking about?  I've been looking for a good clean one for a long time.  I have a .50 Caliber head w/ EL-84s (rare) and have had no luck finding the cabinet.  I have a 25wt greenback and an EV-12-L in boxes waiting.  I used to play my '59 Tweed Deluxe through one of them.  Fantastic.

You might also keep your eyes peeled for something similar made by "Pacific Woodworks." They are pretty much the same thing, just in a slimmed down cabinet. To my ear, the ones with the Thiele lower set up are somewhat more authentic, size-wise, than what Mesa put out (in the larger box). Not to mention easier to move about. They caused me, way back, to let my oversized 2 x 12 Boogie get away. I still do have the pair of PWW 2 x 12s, with an EVM on the bottom, V-30 on the top (Slanted back, semi-open). The speakers match up well and really work great together.

Once upon a time, they were readily available, at least in Southern California, at very reasonable prices. As were the Mesa versions.

Were I to build one today, I would most likely stick with the EVM but replace the V-30 with the newer Celestion Alnico Cream. Those two speakers sound SO GOOD together.

[HamerDave]

I use a closed back cabinet with my Mesa combo. Depending on the venue I set up two different ways. In smaller places I put the extension on the other side of the stage so the other guitar player can hear me and we don't get into volume wars.  In larger/deeper rooms I stack them. The closed back cab seems to give me better throw, reaching the back of the room, again, without making the stage volume too high.

[django49]

An example of a slimmed down "combination" cabinet using 10s in a Forte/Thiele configuration. (Hoping the pix work in this other format for sharing).

 

[Jeff R]

I have this one, totally closed back and no internal separation board between the slant and the straight, like an old Marshall 4x12. Smaller, yes. Lighter, I guess, I know it's lighter than Boogie's 4x12s.

I've had the old metal grate top open/bottom closed and ported widebody Boogies 2x12s, at least two of them I can recall over the years. Superb, stellar cab. I'd trade out my Recto series cab for the old skool Mark series cab in a heartbeat. I think it sounded more balanced, airier and it simply looked tough as fuck too.

[Lockbody]

1 hour ago, Jeff R said:

I've had the old metal grate top open/bottom closed and ported widebody Boogies 2x12s, at least two of them I can recall over the years. Superb, stellar cab. I'd trade out my Recto series cab for the old skool Mark series cab in a heartbeat. I think it sounded more balanced, airier and it simply looked tough as fuck too.

I know mine isn't going anywhere. A simply fantastic sounding cab. I wish it were eight ohms instead of four, though. For the life of me I can't figure out why Mesa made these four ohms, instead of eight like every other Mesa cab you'd buy. I guess they didn't want to buy sixteen ohm speakers just for the 2x12 cabs.

 

[Lockbody]

As long as we're bringing up Mesa Halfbacks, I found pics last night of a couple of my old 4x12 cabs. The first one is cream and had 2x MC-90s and 2x 150w MS-12 speakers. The MS-12 was Mesa/Boogie's stock speaker in a lot of combos and cabs. The EVM-12L was the upgrade, but the MS-12 is a great speaker in its own right. I sold it on CL, and when the kid came over to pick it up, I was playing through it to show him it worked, and I was thinking the whole time how stupid I was for selling it.

The second is a 4x EVM-12L cabinet! When you talk heavy speaker cabs, you're talking about this one. I was lucky to have that one when I was young, dumb, and full of c.... sold it to a dude in Arizona who paid me $800 to put it on a pallet and ship it to him. Worth every penny, IMO.