MCChris Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/27105-jol-dantzigs-esoterica-electrica-faking-it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kizanski Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 "It’s just the mad rush to appear alt by brandishing a cheapo axe that I question." How is that worse than designing a $20,000 guitar with a fucking Charlie Christian pickup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biz Prof Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 Anyone else find this statement of Jol's to be a bit ironic, given how enthusiastically he supported the genre he's describing here?: "But sometimes companies get caught outside the fashion trend looking in. The mid 1980s was one such time. I lived through that period and can tell you it wasn’t much fun being a vintage-style builder in a world swathed in spandex. If you didn’t slap a locking trem and zebra stripes on your product, you were doomed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Haynie Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 49 minutes ago, kizanski said: "It’s just the mad rush to appear alt by brandishing a cheapo axe that I question." How is that worse than designing a $20,000 guitar with a fucking Charlie Christian pickup? Charlie Christian pickups have their fans, and the Gibson ES-150 was not cheap when it came out. Those pickups that Gibson designed were single coils that were supposed to be better than the competition's designs for the time period. If I am correct, there were more electric lap steels than electric hollow body guitars in the late 30's. Other pickup designs of the time were made with pole pieces or horseshoe magnets. The Charlie Christian pickups have a rail instead of pole pieces. Seymour Duncan came out with his Hot Rails, so there must be something worthwhile to the design. Jol chose it for his guitar aesthetics, but I doubt it has to do with trying to look cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studio Custom Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 Henry wants dealers to step up to the plate, how ironic, given that for two decades he provided them crap for product 80% of the time. By stepping up I suppose he means recutting the nuts, file the fret ends and doing a grind and polish on new instruments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kizanski Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 14 minutes ago, Biz Prof said: Anyone else find this statement of Jol's to be a bit ironic, given how enthusiastically he supported the genre he's describing here? Yes and no. I mean, I can't fault a guy for giving the customers what they want. Unfortunately, I think eventually he tried to tell his customers what they wanted. 3 minutes ago, Steve Haynie said: Jol chose it for his guitar aesthetics, but I doubt it has to do with trying to look cheap. No, he did it for the aesthetics of an old bluesman's guitar, which are generally thought of as cheap and minimalist. Except his are outrageously expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prototype-fan Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 18 minutes ago, Biz Prof said: Anyone else find this statement of Jol's to be a bit ironic, given how enthusiastically he supported the genre he's describing here?: "But sometimes companies get caught outside the fashion trend looking in. The mid 1980s was one such time. I lived through that period and can tell you it wasn’t much fun being a vintage-style builder in a world swathed in spandex. If you didn’t slap a locking trem and zebra stripes on your product, you were doomed." No kidding. I've seen plenty of pictures of him rubbing elbows with the spandex crowd and looking like he was having a grand ol' time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studio Custom Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 1 minute ago, prototype-fan said: No kidding. I've seen plenty of pictures of him rubbing elbows with the spandex crowd and looking like he was having a grand ol' time. In hindsight, he probably now views those times differently. I was out and about in those days and many of the guys I spandexed with now try to disown their pasts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disturber Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 1 minute ago, prototype-fan said: No kidding. I've seen plenty of pictures of him rubbing elbows with the spandex crowd and looking like he was having a grand ol' time. He was making money, so why shouldn't he? The 80's were fun times. There is no contradiction to the fact that he seems to prefer the more classic designs. I do to. I still had fun in the 80's. And I've had a handful of Floyded Hamer's. I don't want any of them back though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMERMAN Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 > If you didn’t slap a locking trem and zebra stripes on your product, you were doomed The part that I find ironic is that there is nothing wrong with selling trems and zebra stripes and "vintage-style" guitars at the same time. A diverse offering is always a good way to help ride out swings in demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSII x 2 Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 47 minutes ago, Biz Prof said: Anyone else find this statement of Jol's to be a bit ironic, given how enthusiastically he supported the genre he's describing here?: "But sometimes companies get caught outside the fashion trend looking in. The mid 1980s was one such time. I lived through that period and can tell you it wasn’t much fun being a vintage-style builder in a world swathed in spandex. If you didn’t slap a locking trem and zebra stripes on your product, you were doomed." Jol sold a lot of instruments thanks to those spandex dudes, c.f. Judas Priest. I bet a lot of 80s metalheads bought Hamers because of Glenn and KK... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCChris Posted April 9, 2018 Author Share Posted April 9, 2018 1 minute ago, SSII x 2 said: Jol sold a lot of instruments thanks to those spandex dudes, c.f. Judas Priest. I bet a lot of 80s metalheads bought Hamers because of Glenn and KK... Embracing the trends in the '80s: Hamer enjoys success Rejecting the trends in the '90s and beyond: Hamer closes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorch Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 The beginner guitar point is interesting. Once a cheapo gets recorded and sold successfully it becomes iconic, eventually becoming sought after, vintage and expensive. A vast of new youngs would then try to replicate the original sound one day. Call it “modern vintage” if you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmatthes Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 58 minutes ago, MCChris said: Embracing the trends in the '80s: Hamer enjoys success Rejecting the trends in the '90s and beyond: Hamer closes They had more years in business post-shred trends than previous to that era, but agreed that they were on their way up and expanding through the 70s and mid 80s, but when 1992/3 hit and they started going back to their more "Vintage" original formula, people seemed to only remember them for the less than 10 years when locking trem, flashy superstrat guitars were all the rage, and they lost that rising momentum. I've lost count of the conversations I've had with players and dealers over the last 20 years who only remember Hamer's mid-80s MTV heyday and a 5-necked guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCChris Posted April 9, 2018 Author Share Posted April 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, cmatthes said: They had more years in business post-shred trends than previous to that era, but agreed that they were on their way up and expanding through the 70s and mid 80s, but when 1992/3 hit and they started going back to their more "Vintage" original formula, people seemed to only remember them for the less than 10 years when locking trem, flashy superstrat guitars were all the rage, and they lost that rising momentum. I've lost count of the conversations I've had with players and dealers over the last 20 years who only remember Hamer's mid-80s MTV heyday and a 5-necked guitar. And of course all of that coincided with Hamer's aversion to marketing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmatthes Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, MCChris said: And of course all of that coincided with Hamer's aversion to marketing. Definitely shortly after that and right around that time. I remember in the early to mid-90s, they were on the back cover of most guitar magazines several times a year. That kind of slowed down, then suddenly stopped shortly before or right around the move to New Hartford. There was a flurry of back cover/prominent full page activity in 1999-2001, but I would have thought that with the consistent 5 star ratings in several mags (globally, not just in the USA), they would have ramped up the ads. I agree with the Muse that that was a critical error in keeping the name out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCChris Posted April 9, 2018 Author Share Posted April 9, 2018 25 minutes ago, cmatthes said: Definitely shortly after that and right around that time. I remember in the early to mid-90s, they were on the back cover of most guitar magazines several times a year. That kind of slowed down, then suddenly stopped shortly before or right around the move to New Hartford. There was a flurry of back cover/prominent full page activity in 1999-2001, but I would have thought that with the consistent 5 star ratings in several mags (globally, not just in the USA), they would have ramped up the ads. I agree with the Muse that that was a critical error in keeping the name out there. And of course they whiffed on the other major component of marketing, product placement. Didn't have Hamers in the hands of nearly enough prominent players, and didn't exploit the ones who played them on their own, like Jeff Ament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studio Custom Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 Kaman bought the company in 1988. They had a different view of the world, coming for a defense contractor background. In many ways, their purchase was the beginning of the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kizanski Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 31 minutes ago, Ed Rechts said: I wonder if the Kaman guys had a "party favors" business model as far as marketing went? Hey, works for helicopter parts, why not musical instruments? We need all of your responses to be in AnDy fOrMaTiOn from now on. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCChris Posted April 9, 2018 Author Share Posted April 9, 2018 9 minutes ago, kizanski said: We need all of your responses to be in AnDy fOrMaTiOn from now on. Thank you. Replete with ALF photoshops. kthxbai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kizanski Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, MCChris said: Replete with ALF photoshops. kthxbai AKA: The HFC Golden Age™ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kizanski Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Ed Rechts said: ...I think we need to be fresh in our acceptance of a kindler, gentler (more subtly snarly) message board. I've told you before: I have no use for this kinder, gentler Rechts. FIX IT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCChris Posted April 9, 2018 Author Share Posted April 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, Ed Rechts said: And btw, wtf does kthxbai mean, as you move weekly towards shaking down Ted for establishment of an HFC Wiki? https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=kthxbai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmatthes Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, Ed Rechts said: And btw, wtf does kthxbai mean, as you move weekly towards shaking down Ted for establishment of an HFC Wiki? "Okay Thanks Bye" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCChris Posted April 9, 2018 Author Share Posted April 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, cmatthes said: "Okay Thanks Bye" "Generally used with contempt, or for hasty exit." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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