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Jol Dantzig's Esoterica Electrica: Faking It


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"It’s just the mad rush to appear alt by brandishing a cheapo axe that I question."

How is that worse than designing a $20,000 guitar with a fucking Charlie Christian pickup?

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Anyone else find this statement of Jol's to be a bit ironic, given how enthusiastically he supported the genre he's describing here?: "But sometimes companies get caught outside the fashion trend looking in. The mid 1980s was one such time. I lived through that period and can tell you it wasn’t much fun being a vintage-style builder in a world swathed in spandex. If you didn’t slap a locking trem and zebra stripes on your product, you were doomed."

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49 minutes ago, kizanski said:

"It’s just the mad rush to appear alt by brandishing a cheapo axe that I question."

How is that worse than designing a $20,000 guitar with a fucking Charlie Christian pickup?

Charlie Christian pickups have their fans, and the Gibson ES-150 was not cheap when it came out.  Those pickups that Gibson designed were single coils that were supposed to be better than the competition's designs for the time period.  If I am correct, there were more electric lap steels than electric hollow body guitars in the late 30's.  Other pickup designs of the time were made with pole pieces or horseshoe magnets.  The Charlie Christian pickups have a rail instead of pole pieces.  Seymour Duncan came out with his Hot Rails, so there must be something worthwhile to the design.  Jol chose it for his guitar aesthetics, but I doubt it has to do with trying to look cheap. 

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Henry wants dealers to step up to the plate, how ironic, given that for two decades he provided them crap for product 80% of the time.  By stepping up I suppose he means recutting the nuts, file the fret ends and doing a grind and polish on new instruments? 

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14 minutes ago, Biz Prof said:

Anyone else find this statement of Jol's to be a bit ironic, given how enthusiastically he supported the genre he's describing here?

Yes and no.  I mean, I can't fault a guy for giving the customers what they want.
Unfortunately, I think eventually he tried to tell his customers what they wanted.

 

3 minutes ago, Steve Haynie said:

Jol chose it for his guitar aesthetics, but I doubt it has to do with trying to look cheap. 

No, he did it for the aesthetics of an old bluesman's guitar, which are generally thought of as cheap and minimalist.
Except his are outrageously expensive.

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18 minutes ago, Biz Prof said:

Anyone else find this statement of Jol's to be a bit ironic, given how enthusiastically he supported the genre he's describing here?: "But sometimes companies get caught outside the fashion trend looking in. The mid 1980s was one such time. I lived through that period and can tell you it wasn’t much fun being a vintage-style builder in a world swathed in spandex. If you didn’t slap a locking trem and zebra stripes on your product, you were doomed."

No kidding. I've seen plenty of pictures of him rubbing elbows with the spandex crowd and looking like he was having a grand ol' time.

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1 minute ago, prototype-fan said:

No kidding. I've seen plenty of pictures of him rubbing elbows with the spandex crowd and looking like he was having a grand ol' time.

In hindsight, he probably now views those times differently.  I was out and about in those days and many of the guys I spandexed with now try to disown their pasts. 

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1 minute ago, prototype-fan said:

No kidding. I've seen plenty of pictures of him rubbing elbows with the spandex crowd and looking like he was having a grand ol' time.

He was making money, so why shouldn't he? The 80's were fun times. There is no contradiction to the fact that he seems to prefer the more classic designs. I do to. I still had fun in the 80's. And I've had a handful of Floyded Hamer's. I don't want any of them back though.

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> If you didn’t slap a locking trem and zebra stripes on your product, you were doomed

The part that I find ironic is that there is nothing wrong with selling trems and zebra stripes and "vintage-style" guitars at the same time. A diverse offering is always a good way to help ride out swings in demand.

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47 minutes ago, Biz Prof said:

Anyone else find this statement of Jol's to be a bit ironic, given how enthusiastically he supported the genre he's describing here?: "But sometimes companies get caught outside the fashion trend looking in. The mid 1980s was one such time. I lived through that period and can tell you it wasn’t much fun being a vintage-style builder in a world swathed in spandex. If you didn’t slap a locking trem and zebra stripes on your product, you were doomed."

Jol sold a lot of instruments thanks to those spandex dudes, c.f. Judas Priest.  I bet a lot of

80s metalheads  bought Hamers because of Glenn and KK...

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1 minute ago, SSII x 2 said:

Jol sold a lot of instruments thanks to those spandex dudes, c.f. Judas Priest.  I bet a lot of

80s metalheads  bought Hamers because of Glenn and KK...

Embracing the trends in the '80s: Hamer enjoys success

Rejecting the trends in the '90s and beyond: Hamer closes

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The beginner guitar point is interesting. Once a cheapo gets recorded and sold successfully it becomes iconic, eventually becoming sought after, vintage and expensive. A vast of new youngs would then try to replicate the original sound one day. Call it “modern vintage” if you like.

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58 minutes ago, MCChris said:

Embracing the trends in the '80s: Hamer enjoys success

Rejecting the trends in the '90s and beyond: Hamer closes

They had more years in business post-shred trends than previous to that era, but agreed that they were on their way up and expanding through the 70s and mid 80s, but when 1992/3 hit and they started going back to their more "Vintage" original formula, people seemed to only remember them for the less than 10 years when locking trem, flashy superstrat guitars were all the rage, and they lost that rising momentum.

I've lost count of the conversations I've had with players and dealers over the last 20 years who only remember Hamer's mid-80s MTV heyday and a 5-necked guitar.

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2 minutes ago, cmatthes said:

They had more years in business post-shred trends than previous to that era, but agreed that they were on their way up and expanding through the 70s and mid 80s, but when 1992/3 hit and they started going back to their more "Vintage" original formula, people seemed to only remember them for the less than 10 years when locking trem, flashy superstrat guitars were all the rage, and they lost that rising momentum.

I've lost count of the conversations I've had with players and dealers over the last 20 years who only remember Hamer's mid-80s MTV heyday and a 5-necked guitar.

And of course all of that coincided with Hamer's aversion to marketing.

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2 minutes ago, MCChris said:

And of course all of that coincided with Hamer's aversion to marketing.

Definitely shortly after that and right around that time.  I remember in the early to mid-90s, they were on the back cover of most guitar magazines several times a year.  That kind of slowed down, then suddenly stopped shortly before or right around the move to New Hartford.  There was a flurry of back cover/prominent full page activity in 1999-2001, but I would have thought that with the consistent 5 star ratings in several mags (globally, not just in the USA), they would have ramped up the ads.  I agree with the Muse that that was a critical error in keeping the name out there.

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25 minutes ago, cmatthes said:

Definitely shortly after that and right around that time.  I remember in the early to mid-90s, they were on the back cover of most guitar magazines several times a year.  That kind of slowed down, then suddenly stopped shortly before or right around the move to New Hartford.  There was a flurry of back cover/prominent full page activity in 1999-2001, but I would have thought that with the consistent 5 star ratings in several mags (globally, not just in the USA), they would have ramped up the ads.  I agree with the Muse that that was a critical error in keeping the name out there.

And of course they whiffed on the other major component of marketing, product placement. Didn't have Hamers in the hands of nearly enough prominent players, and didn't exploit the ones who played them on their own, like Jeff Ament.

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31 minutes ago, Ed Rechts said:

I wonder if the Kaman guys had a "party favors" business model as far as marketing went?

Hey, works for helicopter parts, why not musical instruments?

We need all of your responses to be in AnDy fOrMaTiOn from now on.

Thank you.

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1 minute ago, Ed Rechts said:

...I think we need to be fresh in our acceptance of a kindler, gentler (more subtly snarly) message board.

I've told you before: I have no use for this kinder, gentler Rechts.

FIX IT!

 

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3 minutes ago, Ed Rechts said:

And btw, wtf does kthxbai mean, as you move weekly towards shaking down Ted for establishment of an HFC Wiki?

"Okay Thanks Bye"

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