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I'm trying out a Fractal AX8


polara

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Block placement is important, but it's the same for plugging pedals into an amp.  In it's simplest form- phasers/wahs/envelop filters/etc first, ODs/fuzz/etc second, amps third, cabs next, then delays, then verbs. Compressors can go first in the chain or last, depends on what kind of compressor you're using and what you want it to do.  Same for a volume pedal block- I use mine first in the chain, and utilize it like a volume pot (it's amazing how freeing up your hands and being able to do crazy swells or simple gain softens with your feet enhances your playing), but you can use it last to be able to quickly modulate your overall sound going into the board.

My suggestion- load a few presets from well respected Fractalites and use them as templates to build your own.  You'll be amazed at how easy the unit is to master after that.

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Pro tip, and this applies to all modelers: do NOT expect patches dialed in via headphones or at low volume to work at live band volume. That's a recipe for misery. You have to tweak live presets at live volume. Google Fletcher-Munson if you want to know why, or just trust me on this.

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17 hours ago, burningyen said:

Pro tip, and this applies to all modelers: do NOT expect patches dialed in via headphones or at low volume to work at live band volume. That's a recipe for misery. You have to tweak live presets at live volume. Google Fletcher-Munson if you want to know why, or just trust me on this.

Yup, I learned that with the old Boss. I'm okay at getting in the ballpark at home, as I've learned to dial the gain down, the mids up, and the highs down a little from what seems good in the headphones. Oh, and to add more volume that you'd think prudent to distortion sounds vs. clean. I got a preset from one of the AxeChange forum guys and used that as a start last night to do a pedalboard with clean, OD, fuzz "scenes," a boot button, and four  effects on-offs up top. I'll try it at rehearsal tonight but it's the most promising yet through the home amp. He did a lot of stuff with the cabs, I noticed, and had two scenes in which the same amp had more drive and less output... cool.

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I have been using AXE FX for a long time now.  I never warmed to the Ultra but the 2 was miles better.

I have never tried an AX8.

The biggest learning curve for me was IRs.  I now tend to pick an amp sim, leave it as-is and work on a suitable IR and dial that in first.  By the time that’s done the amp sims don’t need much tweaking.

Only then do I muck around with effects.

After spending out on loads of valve amps through the years I am finally at the point with my AXE FX FRFR setup that I wouldn’t consider going back. 

 

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I recently bought a Helix due to beginning to play at our church services. To keep stage volume down they allow no amps on stage.....drummer is in a cage but still pretty loud.  I figured I might as well use a modeler since it would make transport and setup/teardown quick and easy.  I do like the sounds I am getting but I am keeping the tones pretty basic for now....as in not effect heavy and modern Christian music seems to use U2s Joshua Tree album as a template so I will wade into delay-land soon enough.

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Have been considering going this way too. I have a nice amp wall that is somewhat underutilized in a condo setting. 🤩

Been staring at the Axe-Fx III. Anyone know why there is no foot controller from Fractal for that? At least not that I can find on their site.

 

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There are two versions of the Axe III controller, the FC-6 and FC-12.  Supposed to start shipping this fall.  Looks badass, individual scribble strips, should be a winner.

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I have the Headrush unit.  I like the drag and drop screen and how easy it is to program.  It's got the Eleven Rack software, but ramped up a few notches.  I had a Helix.  I've played through a Firehawk 1500 Line 6 amp for the past year.  The Headrush sounds so good through the FRFR cabs they sell. 

From what I can tell, the Headrush doesn't have everything the Fractal or the Line 6 units do.  It has all I need.  The Image Response files I've downloaded are fantastic.  Having so much fun with the Headrush.   It's so easy to program and sounds really great.

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9 hours ago, The Shark said:

I have the Headrush unit.  I like the drag and drop screen and how easy it is to program.  It's got the Eleven Rack software, but ramped up a few notches.  I had a Helix.  I've played through a Firehawk 1500 Line 6 amp for the past year.  The Headrush sounds so good through the FRFR cabs they sell. 

From what I can tell, the Headrush doesn't have everything the Fractal or the Line 6 units do.  It has all I need.  The Image Response files I've downloaded are fantastic.  Having so much fun with the Headrush.   It's so easy to program and sounds really great.

I get the impression they all - Kemper, Fractal, Line 6, Helix, Atomic, Boss, Digitech - are to the point that they sound fine. Just a matter of which physical format you like, which software you prefer. Honestly I got the Fractal because it was local and a good price. I'm sure I'd have the same frustrations and triumphs with any of them.

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3 hours ago, polara said:

I get the impression they all - Kemper, Fractal, Line 6, Helix, Atomic, Boss, Digitech - are to the point that they sound fine. Just a matter of which physical format you like, which software you prefer. Honestly I got the Fractal because it was local and a good price. I'm sure I'd have the same frustrations and triumphs with any of them.

I just wanted to get away from having to have my iPhone, tablet or computer to interface with my rig.  The Headrush is the simplest to edit and I love being able to arrange the signal path by dragging and dropping.  Tried the Fractal, but really needed a computer to properly edit.  It did sound killer, however. 

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Lately I have been playing my Tele straight into my Mark IV's clean channel with a little of the Mark's reverb on it and I am in love with that sound. I've got maybe 10 pedals and the AX8, and frankly I am happier with my sound this week (and what I'm playing) than I have been in years. At 56, I don't know that I'll be playing out that much more or that much longer, so I'm thinking I'm going to start moving stuff and just get more Teles. Damn you Johnny Hiland! (and you too Vince Gill lol)

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6 hours ago, jim777 said:

Lately I have been playing my Tele straight into my Mark IV's clean channel with a little of the Mark's reverb on it and I am in love with that sound. I've got maybe 10 pedals and the AX8, and frankly I am happier with my sound this week (and what I'm playing) than I have been in years. At 56, I don't know that I'll be playing out that much more or that much longer, so I'm thinking I'm going to start moving stuff and just get more Teles. Damn you Johnny Hiland! (and you too Vince Gill lol)

You going to get his Keisel model?  https://www.kieselguitars.com/catalog/guitars/jh6

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ONE WEEK UPDATE

  • Issue: Not happy with crunch to high-gain because pedal models sound coarse into a clean amp model.
    • Solution: Start with a patch I got off the AxeChange by a Fractal Forum regular who sells presets and and is well-respected. Picked his apart and learned about drive blocks. For hi-gain, stacked their model of the Suhr Riot at low gain on top of the crunchy Matchless DC-30 I was using. 
  • Issue: Noticable lag - sound dropped out - switching between scenes, even though I was not switching amp models.
    • Solution: Go into the global settings and set the switches to only do one thing - switchon and off  - instead of switching X/Y variants as well as on and off. Also be sure that scenes spill over when switching (like delays keep trailing off).
  • Issue: Kind of dead sounding overall.
    • Solution: Add a little reverb as the final block, which is something I never do with a real amp.
  • Issue: Figuring how to work around perceived EQ at different volumes (Fletcher Munson curve).
    • Solution: Don't go too crazy - cut only the highest and lowest frequencies (below 80 Hz and above 7.5kHz) - but EQ everything to be pretty mid-rangey, and use less drive than sounds good at low volume. The default settings for amps, cabs, and effects are usable, and the AX8 doesn't suffer from the "stock presets are extreme designed to show off what it can do" syndrome I'd expected. 

I hadn't worked most of this out for the Saturday gig, so was pretty frustrated with the sound, but I'm getting pretty darned close. I think if I were running this into a 1-12 cabinet behind me (like I do with a normal amp) at my usual volume, I might not realize I wasn't using pedals and tubes. It's still weird to get my sound through the wedges, but I do like how easy it is to get the overall mix perfect at rehearsal.

The programming is far from intuitive, and the demos of the Helix and Headrush make those units look superior in that regard. However, after I got the basic setup done on the computer, I'm finding I can really fly through the tweaks on the hardware unit itself, so fast it's not an issue.

These sounds are better than my memory of the early Line 6 and Yamaha DG Stomp stuff. There's never a solution right for everyone, but I think this is a perfectly valid solution for many people.

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@polara:  It looks like you are getting a grasp of how to dial in your guitar sounds on the Fractal AX-8 . Have you considered using an FRFR powered cab like the Line 6 Power Cab or the Friedman ASM-12? It would allow you to have your own sound onstage instead of relying on a wedge monitor or IEM to monitor your sound onstage.

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               Guitar George

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4 minutes ago, Hamer95USA said:

@polara:  It looks like you are getting a grasp of how to dial in your guitar sounds on the Fractal AX-8 . Have you considered using an FRFR powered cab like the Line 6 Power Cab or the Friedman ASM-12? It would allow you to have your own sound onstage instead of relying on a wedge monitor or IEM to monitor your sound onstage.

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               Guitar George

I guess if I don't know what I'm getting into live, I'll bring one of our QSC powered speakers, since I'm dialing my Fractal for those. Generally I know the sound systems where we'll play, and I'm getting pretty comfortable with the no-amp feel already. I really like the idea of just walking into a club with a synth, iPad, Fractal, and a guitar, then going 100% direct. Clean stage, fast setup, balanced sound, and no ringing ears.

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39 minutes ago, Hamer95USA said:

@polara:  It looks like you are getting a grasp of how to dial in your guitar sounds on the Fractal AX-8 . Have you considered using an FRFR powered cab like the Line 6 Power Cab or the Friedman ASM-12? It would allow you to have your own sound onstage instead of relying on a wedge monitor or IEM to monitor your sound onstage.

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               Guitar George

Good call.  I was impressed with the ASC-12 and bought one after an A/B test with the ASM-12 which I didn't enjoy by comparison.  

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  • 2 weeks later...

Update:

Getting pretty happy with it. 90% of it is changing my attitude. Old dog meets new tricks. I'm so used to having a lot of guitar volume next to me, then walking across the room or stage and hearing just a little, that hearing myself in the mix, just like the album or just like the audience, is weird. This is the big challenge: to get used to playing along with the sound of the guitar, mic'd, processed and mixed, instead of hearing the raw material behind me.

Of course I could play it into a powered guitar rig designed for this purpose, like an Atomic, but the point of this was to minimize setup, carrying stuff, etc. and to make what we send to the board as easy for the guy running sound as possible. In for a penny, in for a pound... I'm going into the PA.

Anyway, I'm dialing out reverb and using just one close-mic'd 412 cab model (IR) on the assumption that adjusting for the room is the job of the engineer. He knows the acoustics of this particular shabby concrete dive bar, so I'm not gonna make things harder by making a "concrete chamber of acoustical horrors number five" preset. Just dial it so I like it in rehearsal through my wedge.

I've got two basic presets now, one based on a Matchless DC-30, one around a Marshall JTM45. One works if I'm playing a guitar with hotter pickups, like the Moniker or the HELL Standard, and the other works better for the Tom Anderson, which has a pretty mellow and mid-rangey sound. I'll make one more "mad scientist" preset for the couple of songs we do that are either super-clean or fuzzed-out mayhem with choppers and harmonizers, and call it day.

Bottom line: the programming is a challenge but can be done. The real challenge is getting used to playing what sounds like your amp, but mic'd in another room. No right or wrong answer, just choices.

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  • 1 month later...

Final update.

I sold all my pedals and amp. I'm all-in on the Fractal! Have one preset for humbucker-y guitars, that models this:

  • Big Muff > Divided by 13 FTR37 > Ultra-res 2x12 cabinet of some sort > modulated delay > tremolo > octave pedal > flanger > output volume control

And one for single-coil, Fender-y guitars, modeling this:

  • Suhr Riot > Friedman Dirty Shirley > Ultra-res 4x12 cabinet of some sort > modulated delay > tremolo > octave pedal > flanger > output volume control

Each has four scenes - clean, crunch, rock, and fuzz lead, that I made with scene controllers to adjust the gain and the on/off of the drive pedal - and all the pedals also able to be independently switched on and off. It's all super-simple to use, I can reach down and twist a physical knob to tweak as I go, like a traditional rig, and it fits in a small briefcase. It would be super-easy to make some really wild specific patches for special stuff, but for now this covers my needs, and I can just duplicate a preset and add/swap pedals or settings if a song needs something special.

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On ‎10‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 3:06 PM, burningyen said:

Pro tip, and this applies to all modelers: do NOT expect patches dialed in via headphones or at low volume to work at live band volume. That's a recipe for misery. You have to tweak live presets at live volume. Google Fletcher-Munson if you want to know why, or just trust me on this.

So true. 

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2 hours ago, polara said:

Final update.

I sold all my pedals and amp. I'm all-in on the Fractal! Have one preset for humbucker-y guitars, that models this:

  • Big Muff > Divided by 13 FTR37 > Ultra-res 2x12 cabinet of some sort > modulated delay > tremolo > octave pedal > flanger > output volume control

And one for single-coil, Fender-y guitars, modeling this:

  • Suhr Riot > Friedman Dirty Shirley > Ultra-res 4x12 cabinet of some sort > modulated delay > tremolo > octave pedal > flanger > output volume control

Each has four scenes - clean, crunch, rock, and fuzz lead, that I made with scene controllers to adjust the gain and the on/off of the drive pedal - and all the pedals also able to be independently switched on and off. It's all super-simple to use, I can reach down and twist a physical knob to tweak as I go, like a traditional rig, and it fits in a small briefcase. It would be super-easy to make some really wild specific patches for special stuff, but for now this covers my needs, and I can just duplicate a preset and add/swap pedals or settings if a song needs something special.

I have no idea how to do any of this stuff :) Where did you look to learn about setting up scenes, was it forums or the manual or videos or something?

Also, did you do it via the AX8 itself or through a connected computer and the AX Edit software?

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22 minutes ago, jim777 said:

I have no idea how to do any of this stuff :) Where did you look to learn about setting up scenes, was it forums or the manual or videos or something?

Also, did you do it via the AX8 itself or through a connected computer and the AX Edit software?

The factory manual is actually really good. It's very deep, and you have to sit down and read it all to really get a handle on the thing. Then I watched maybe one video.

You need to set up any gear - digital or analog - in a band setting at your normal volume, if course. So at home I kind of set up a patch that had the stuff in the right places, in terms of what buttons did what, then just turned dials at rehearsal, flipping through a bunch of amps using the dials on the AX8. Then cabinets. Then drives. 

Then I went home, plugged into the Mac to do some adjustments and name them and stick them in the right preset numbers. I also added the delay, tremolo, octave and flanger at home, since those aren't so volume-sensitive. Once more to rehearsal for a little fine-tuning, then done.

It's fairly easy to quickly get stuff done on the box itself: I used the Mac to stick the blocks in the right order at the beginning, assign names, and back it all up.

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The Headrush, in my opinion, is so much easier to program.  I had Helix and AX8.  I just find setting up scenes and setlists simpler and creating rigs is just a breeze with the drag and drop touch screen.  I'm not sure it sounds any better than the other two (that's totally subjective), but it does everything I need and much more.  I have it set to a "Hybrid Mode" with four preset rigs and four footswitch functions and the pedal for each rig.  You can also click one button and find all the other amps, IR's, cabs and effects in any of the four rigs on the fly.  I have mirror scenes for single coil guitars and for humbucker guitars.  The videos on YouTube are all I've ever used.

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