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Hamer vs Gibson QC


diablo175

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This has likely been discussed (possibly ad nauseum) but I was never fully read up on it. I was participating in a debate of sorts, today re: some of the infamous Gibson QC issues and that of Hamer. I'm aware of Hamer-itis but were there any other issues that plagued Hamers? It was opined that the trems on the Prototypes were somehow sub standard and that some of the finishes were shoddy. In being asked to substantiate the accusations against Gibson, I found that I could only relate my issues but I've read of many others.

Can anyone fill in the blanks?

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I love Hamer USA guitars!!! That said I can’t fill in the blanks, but every Hamer I’ve owned the Duncans get replaced. And it makes a huge difference to my ears. I’ve had a couple Gibson CS and Fender CS guitars and the build quality pales in comparison to the Hamers I’ve owned and still own.

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                                                                                               I don't have the experience or expertise many of you have on here regarding Hamer guitars but I Have owned MANY Gibsons. And I have to say the ones I bought and owned were really fine guitars. But when I say that I'm talking about 60s and 70s guitars.................WITH the exception of the "NEW" 1999 Les Paul "Classic" Goldtop I bought some months ago. The Les Paul "Classic" I bought I can find no fault with, everything is just as it should be and the store set it up perfect.............build quality,sound, playability and beauty of the guitar is all there. But let me tell you this from the other newer Gibson guitars I have looked at and played there were all kinds of issues,some already mentioned here............. finish  problems,hardware issues,nuts that are poorly cut.................even some of these issues were on high end "HISTORIC" and "Custom Shop" guitars I looked at and played.How some of those guitars made it out the door is anyone guess but QC was sleeping at the wheel........................ least on the guitars I played. Of the Hamer guitars I have seen and played  they were always done "RIGHT".................that is everything spoke of a high quality made guitar that one would want to own. I'm aware Hamer had some issues as well but nothing on the scale of those at Gibson, some of those guitars for the $$$$ they were asking were just plain cheap looking and poorly made. I know there are some great Gibbys out there I owned some and.................I just bought a really great one. IMHO Hamer did a better job of building and keeping tabs on quality from what I have seen and those that I have owned.

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My biggest beef with Gibson USA over the last twenty years or so hasn't been quality control as much as their choice to use poor quality materials.  The horrible color of the plastics (especially the neck binding), less than stellar wood selection, cheap import hardware, sticky/plastic feeling finishes, and non-locking strap buttons.

The main QC issues I've seen are a non-adherence to published specs and general set-up issues.

I did own a Hamer I felt was pretty turdish, but it was the lone exception among many.  

 

 

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1 minute ago, cynic said:

My biggest beef with Gibson USA over the last twenty years or so hasn't been quality control as much as their choice to use poor quality materials.  The horrible color of the plastics (especially the neck binding), less than stellar wood selection, cheap import hardware, sticky/plastic feeling finishes, and non-locking strap buttons.

The main QC issues I've seen are a non-adherence to published specs and general set-up issues.

 

 

                                                                All of that...................what your paying for and what your getting per their marketing certainly does not hold true.

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To add my .02-  the Custom Shop LP Axcess (one of 3) my wife bought me for an obscene amount of scratch, was pretty much a dog initially. Un-fetchingly colored plastic parts, poorly installed and functioning Ping Trem and locking nut, (admittedly subjective) crappy pickups, crappy Chinese electronic components (toggle switch shit the bed early on and pots followed suite soon after) sawdust in the cavities/chambers, perhaps contributing to the switch crapping out? Luckily, the basic structural integrity was good and the fret work was solid.

I eventually sank another $800 in to new components and bench time- OFR, Grover tuners, pickup, and wiring harness w/pots courtesy of Murkat, and black hardware.

 

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Before the Guitarget (GC) in my town closed I would wander in on my lunch breaks occasionally since it was a couple doors down from my favorite NYC style by the slice joint. 

I never bothered to take any guitars down to play ( been relatively GAS free for several years) but would always give a good visual inspection, I could always find some issues with the Gibsons. I specifically remember one TV yellow Special that had a line of yellow all the way down the top of the fingerboard due to a mistaping, not real hard to scrape that off with a razor blade before setup. 

The Firebird X they had in was the biggest turd I've ever seen. I couldn't believe that a) it was deemed ok to leave the factory and b) some dipshit thought it was okay to put on the sales floor instead of back in the box and straight back to Nashville. No exaggeration, the clear coat looked like it was applied with a roller and it had the worst fret sprout I had ever seen.

 

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I've owned many Gibsons, and still have several (along with two Hamers). My '89 LP Custom and '02 SG Supreme are close to being perfect. Practically all the other ones I've had, from 2013 and newer, have had finish issues. I'm still surprised my '16 ES LP Studio is practically flawless. 

Gibson's problem is their employees have a quota to meet (quality vs quantity). Perhaps under a new CEO, that will change.  

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Aside from "Hameritis" I'm not aware of any real Hamer QC issues. The fit and finish on my Hamer guitars is great! I also love how they do their fret board edges on non-bound necks. from the 90s. So comfortable but also clean looking.

Gibson, as always, is hit or miss, and the overall level of fit and finish just isn't as good. If you're getting a a Gibson, you've really got to be prepared for some issues, especially on a guitar with lots of binding, as that is simply more steps and more chances for QC issues.

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As mentioned, Hameritis was not that unusual but pizza day less usual. Seen a flame maple top that was wavy...the wood itself was wavy, not sanded smooth. I had a Blitz bass with a neck that had both a twist and a hump. I borrowed HHBs Sunburst and it wouldn't stay in tune for either of us and he's a hell of a player, not a hack like me. I still think the Sustainblock vibrato was a bad idea: I've had Kahler, Floyd, 6-screw Strat, 2-post Strat and Bigsby over the years, but that Hamer unit was the only one I couldn't keep in tune.

I've only owned two Gibsons and they were both okay overall, but not as nice as the average Hamer. I've picked them up - even at a Gibson showcase at the Rock Hall of Fame - and found some that I was surprised got shipped out. Mostly setup issues, but some bad finishes and cheap-looking or -feeling hardware, or lifeless sounds.

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I've owned a '96 Les Paul Custom that had the headstock inlay that was finished that you can see the outlines of the inlay and that someone threw some finish on it. I still own a '98 Hamer Artist Custom with the Hameritis finish issues on the near the nut and heel of the neck. The guitar itself plays well and is resonant regardless of the finish issue. 

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Guitar George

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5 hours ago, Steve Haynie said:

Happy employees would make a better product. 

                               That sure would make a difference now wouldn't it?........................people who are valued and respected by the business they work for do much better.They tend to "INVEST' [And I'm not talking money,I'm talking about as people] themselves in the business and do a much better job of doing what they are doing when they are satisfied doing it.

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6 hours ago, RobB said:

I had a BCR Standard that had really bad orange peel. I sent it back, Platzer fixed it. Hamer wanted to refinish it,  but never got their hands on it. 

I had an Archtop Custom with an orange peel top... I was surprised it passed an inspection.

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Yeah.. I will say that there is some "dimpling" on my Newport in the finish, right over almost every piece of sparkle/flake on the top and sometimes on the back. Also there's that binding shrinking issue, but it's also close to 20 years old. It's often hard to predict how things like plastic will change over a decade or so.

Gibson finishes rarely have orange peel, but they have a different issue usually: lots of wood grain. It seems like they don't let the guitars dry for super long before buffing them out. I got a black Gibson SG open box some years back that I should have NEVER SOLD. When I got it, the finish was smooth, and I could read the serial number. After a year, the serial number was impossible to read, and the body now showed a bunch of wood grain.

I have also heard people complain about orange peel from Music Man, G&L, etc etc. Many people won't even notice a subtle orange peel in their finish.

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Red Molly...Custom Standard with floyd rose & sustainer.  When they built it, they didn't put enough relief in the neck.  So, heavy strings & standard tuning was the only way that guitar was playable.  Should have never left the factory like that - so clearly obvious there was back bow in the neck with the truss completely loose and strings at pitch. I attempted to convince them to fix it but being the second owner they were not interested.  Very unfortunate, that guitar would still be with me today if they built it correctly. 

A friend ordered a new Sunburst in 1980.  When he opened the case, fur from the case was stuck to the finish. We called it the fuzzy guitar. 

All my other Hamers, maybe 15 in total besides Molly have been amazing, perfect. Some, like my old boomer Artist, are works of art.

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4 hours ago, Devnor said:

Red Molly...Custom Standard with floyd rose & sustainer.  When they built it, they didn't put enough relief in the neck.  So, heavy strings & standard tuning was the only way that guitar was playable.  Should have never left the factory like that - so clearly obvious there was back bow in the neck with the truss completely loose and strings at pitch. I attempted to convince them to fix it but being the second owner they were not interested.  Very unfortunate, that guitar would still be with me today if they built it correctly. 

A friend ordered a new Sunburst in 1980.  When he opened the case, fur from the case was stuck to the finish. We called it the fuzzy guitar. 

All my other Hamers, maybe 15 in total besides Molly have been amazing, perfect. Some, like my old boomer Artist, are works of art.

No shit- Red Molly  was yours for a bit?

That ax was partly the inspiration for my having a HEL Interceptor/Standard built- With Hamer long dead, Shane seemed like the guy to do it. In fact, I wish I had gone with my initial impulse to put a Sustainiac in the Willy G as well! Loved Red Molly! Sorry to hear it was a dog.

 

 

 

 

 

IMG_5278.jpg

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I own three Gibsons that are all flawless and play great. But they were all built in the Custom Shop. The last time that I was in a Guitar Center store and saw and played a couple of standard production Gibsons, I was shocked at how poorly they were set up and the frets on a number of them were unpolished so when you bent a string it felt like you were bending it on a emory board. There have been threads here describing and illustrating off-center bridge placement and crooked pickup mounting rings. Things that I don't think would get past Hamer.

All of the Hamers I have ever owned (around 20) have been awesome. I own two with Hameritis, and one with "pizza day" under the clear-coat, but it doesn't effect playability or tone.

My current #1 is my Gibson R8 and it's very well made and rings like a bell.

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