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Ed Rechts

Gibson's first recovery move is to re-issue "The Paul"

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1 hour ago, jwhitcomb3 said:

Keep making the guitars grampa played (and sell them for the price he paid).

If they just re-dedicated to fucking QUALITY CONTROL, would do wonders for real players.

It's absolute bullshit to pay a premium price for a guitar that needs to be sent to a luthier to be truly premium.

I was really lucky to know people 20 years ago that got "pick of the litter" newer LPs and would offer up without upcharge (Anyone remember HFCer Turdus? That guy can score you a killer guitar, he was connected).

No fret leveling, no intonation issues, just straight LP mojo out of the case. Might not be the color you always dreamed of, but, wow, they were players.

 But as we all know, those were rare, and they get picked up by distributors up the line ,and NEVER find their way into, say, a Guitar Center or big-box music Gibson dealer.

I know we have a bunch of accomplished business owners and analysts on this board, someone please tell me WHY Gibson let marketing dictate direction over QC product release? Is it really that tragic a tale?

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I always was somewhat a fan of the Classics that had the 500T and 496 R pickups, and those snot green inlays.

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18 minutes ago, Ed Rechts said:

someone please tell me WHY Gibson let marketing dictate direction over QC product release? Is it really that tragic a tale?

Easy. #'s.

Henry wanted Gibson to be a lifestyle, a prop. Like Harley Davidson. In fact, Henry quoted as such.

The USA plant would just crank out the #'s, 300 + a day.

Epiphone inspection, 2500 a day.

Custom Shop, 50 to 80 a day.

There were many times I, we would bring up a piece to inspection and get a reply, "let it slide".

After a while I would just attempt to fix it on my own prior to knowing it would go out the door unresolved.

Most of us at the pro shop did so, make it right as if it was your own.

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1 minute ago, murkat said:

Henry wanted Gibson to be a lifestyle, a prop. Like Harley Davidson. In fact, Henry quoted as such.

Thanks, Jay, I kinda knew/know the reality, just wanted to emphasize it.

The Harley marketing connection has always been so spot-on. I don't ride myself, but every f'n Harley owner I know always modifies the bike right out the gates to make it "ride-able". They built a big after-market economy.

It bugs me when I meet kids that are so enamored by the prestige of a Les Paul, but don't know that it ain't what it used to be.

I would love to know what goes on in those board rooms when some suited asshat says, "Tell them to let it slide"

 

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Lifestyle brands are a joke.  A store opens in a mall selling shirts with their store name on them, and people snap it all up.  What the heck is so wonderful about wearing a Hollster or Aero-Postale shirt?  Around here there are people with John Deere shirts, hats, tags, etc. that have never worked on a farm, but they have their cool John Deere stuff.  Excuse me, cool John Deere props

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1 hour ago, Ed Rechts said:

I would love to know what goes on in those board rooms when some suited asshat says, "Tell them to let it slide" 

Well.........

Corporate would tell, command the manufacturing  divisions to hit a daily, weekly, monthly # no matter what, under a specific budget.

Crack those wips.

Div. Manager would have a meeting with the dept. managers about the #'s from Corp.

Crack those wips.

Dept. managers would have a meeting with formans, area bosses about the #'s and to achieve that goal.

Crack those wips.

Area Bosses are the ones that are responsible for inspection. They have the final say... and there asses handed to them if fail.

Bonuses reflected on pure numbers, budget, etc. end of year.

If it cost corp, it costed you. No matter what div.

Pro Shop team was the only team that had leeway and leverage due to Artist relations guitars, Artist guitars and high buck instruments.

When I was the guy doing the Jimmy #2 LP's, each one was perfect. I still had a # per day... But if I was pressured, I would tell them fine,

Let someone else wire them up and setup to spec. ..... I built out 98% of those damn things.

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Had a The Paul, and always wanted a V2.  For some odd reason the V2 reminded  me of an old timey coffin,.  Makes no sense whatsoever, but it did.

Love that sparkle finish, never saw any of those, just the natural finish...

 

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The Paul, I loved those guitars.  A friend has my old one but he scalloped the fretboard, LOL. Why not reissue that?

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5 hours ago, bruce919 said:

OK , What could Gibson do to make the guitar world happy?

Free Custom Shop Les Pauls for everyone.

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Did anyone at Gibson ever plug those god awful V2 guitars in before they released them?  They sound so bad, I just can't figure how anyone but a collector would own one. 

The "new" Gibson needs to resurrect the Marauder and the S-1 too, if we're going to dive down the 70's rabbit hole.  Grabber and Ripper basses while they're at it. 

 

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2 hours ago, Steve Haynie said:

Lifestyle brands are a joke.  A store opens in a mall selling shirts with their store name on them, and people snap it all up.  What the heck is so wonderful about wearing a Hollster or Aero-Postale shirt?  Around here there are people with John Deere shirts, hats, tags, etc. that have never worked on a farm, but they have their cool John Deere stuff.  Excuse me, cool John Deere props

Remember school?  And peer pressure?  And keeping up with the Joneses?  It's still around.  Now that the economy isn't in the toilet like it was ten years ago, you can bet that someone somewhere is feeling deprived because they don't have someone grocery shopping for them at Wal-Mart or some other store; or even better/worse, not having their groceries delivered to their home, or not having a gourmet meal subscription service, or not trying to beat a bunch of strangers on their Peloton exercycle, or not getting a Lexus with a big red bow on it for Christmas, just like the commercials.

That's why I like being a grumpy old curmudgeon, above all else, it don't cost nuthin'.  I'm so out of touch, I just found out today that Slash has his own signature Gibson Firebird...and the only thing I want to do about it is question why it was necessary for Gibson and Slash to do that at all.

Edited by crunchee

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44 minutes ago, The Shark said:

The "new" Gibson needs to resurrect the Marauder and the S-1 too, if we're going to dive down the 70's rabbit hole. 

I would agree with this, not so much as a 70s rabbit hole thing, but distinguishing entry level guitars with something as simple as front loaded electronics.  Most of the <$1500 Gibsons that go out the door are not what those models should represent.  Similar to PRS with their Mira and Starla, if you want to sell entry level, made in USA guitars, make damn sure they can't be confused with your main line.

Special, Standard, and Custom should be as deep as any of their model names ever go.  

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3 hours ago, tbonesullivan said:

I always was somewhat a fan of the Classics that had the 500T and 496 R pickups, and those snot green inlays.

I have a 1991 Classic that is as good as it gets. Feels like old wood, similar to my 79 Sunbursts. It has tone. No more 500T or 496R innit though.

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I wonder what the prices on the originals are gonna do? Now that there’s a reissue does that make them historic?? All I know is I got a great guitar I wouldn’t lose my shit over when it took a stage dive. 

Edited by Dutchman

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I just saw a review of the new The Paul on youtube Trogglysguitarshow. I like that dude. He does a lot of buying and selling of Gibsons and he bought a new The Paul. It was horrible. The routing, the fretboard and more. Gibson is still up to their old tricks. The only thing that he does and he did with this review is kind of defend some of the flaws as acceptable. I would never accept that crap on a new guitar. I was actually thinking of buying one, but not now.

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"Acceptable flaws" are how a company like Gibson was not stopped dead 25 years ago.  Stores should have been sending back anything with a minor flaw. 

To make the point with "lifestyle brand" swag, Gibson T-shirts could be printed off center or at least be printed on irregular shirts. 

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1 hour ago, Steve Haynie said:

"Acceptable flaws" are how a company like Gibson was not stopped dead 25 years ago.  Stores should have been sending back anything with a minor flaw. 

To make the point with "lifestyle brand" swag, Gibson T-shirts could be printed off center or at least be printed on irregular shirts. 

"Acceptable Flaws" is a registered trademark of Gibson Brands Inc.

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At least they don't use the "goof rings" anymore. They just don't bother to hide any of it. Still, there are always going to be some level of small imperfections in anything that involves people.

I remember people going nuts over the finish going over the binding a bit on the neck of Reissue Les Pauls, until it was pointed out that the originals were made exactly that way.  The Gibson location at 225 Parsons St was always a "factory", not a workshop.  Even in 1959:

Quote

That year, Gibson shipped a grand total of 34,123 guitars of all types and models, according to those annual reckonings by the factory managers. Of those guitars, Les Paul models totaled 7,828—including a tremendous 4,364 Juniors (Gibson’s biggest single-model production run in ’59) and 1,821 Specials—which made Les Pauls 23 percent of total production.

We know, too, that Gibson made 643 Bursts that year, which is about eight percent of that Les Paul total, and a little short of two percent of overall guitar production. All of which means that the original Burst was an unimportant product in Gibson’s big picture. If only they knew.

A lot of it has always been about the benjamins with Gibson.

On the other hand, The Paul doesn't have any binding. It's probably one of the simplest designs they make, so screwing it up seems kinda like they just didn't care. the guitar requires minimal paint masking and finish prep compared to their other guitars, yet the price is close to that of an SG standard, which has binding, a real finish (not satin), etc.

Is walnut that expensive of a wood?

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5 hours ago, tbonesullivan said:

Is walnut that expensive of a wood?

It depends...it's very popular for furniture because of it's good looks and durability, ditto for gun stocks.  It's easy to work as well.  Any High School with a wood shop probably churns out walnut gun racks by the dozen every year...mainly because it doesn't take much effort or talent to make 'em.  Don't forget about nuts, especially for fall/winter cooking/baking...a tree that gets cut down for wood won't produce any.

Edited by crunchee
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I think Gibson first used Walnut in quantity because they lost their stocks of mahagony in a fire.I’m just guessing but walnut may be a cheaper tonewood right now. And they have proven that money is more important than quality.

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Are they going to make it in Trans Red.  Years ago I thought a friend of mine had a Trans Red model.  It played and sounded great.  When he was thinning out guitars I told him that's the one I wanted however that was the one he kept.  I think that brown mahogany is ugly!  I might be wrong, but all I can say is let me know how that works out for you Gibson.

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On 11/7/2018 at 3:25 PM, Steve Haynie said:

Those V2s can stay in the past. 

Agreed. Those make me gag when I look at them. 

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Black Walnut wood priced have gone up recently. Kiesel charges more now for it than Mahogany. Supply and demand I figure. I love my rifles with black walnut stocks. I remember when synthetic stocks were more money that black walnut stocks. Now it`s way the other way with the walnut being much higher.

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On 11/11/2018 at 11:19 AM, black magic said:

I was actually thinking of buying one, but not now.

There's a ton of the original ones on Reverb... Many priced below $1K.

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While I realize that "The Paul" is a nod to the entry level line that seemed so commonplace during the Reagan era, I think they'd be better off reviving the XR series as an alternative to the Studio models. Hell, at least one pro, Steve Clark, wrote and recorded a platinum album with an XR: 

Steve-GFTPM83.jpg?fit=331,459

 

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