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LordsoftheJungle

The DAW question

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Since I'm switching computers now would be a good time to switch DAWs if needed. From what I've read most DAWs are capable of putting out pro level audio though I'm wondering if I need to share a common DAW with those I'm collaborating with in order to add tracks and edit a common file (the rest of the band is in Arizona). From what I've read, Pro Tools is the most used DAW in commercial studios though it is also the most difficult to learn. It assumes you are studio experienced and already know all the steps needed to get the desired result. Quite a few people complain that it isn't user friendly but if it is going to be better overall then learning it would obviously be worthwhile. Pro Tools has a budget friendly approach that allows you to subscribe annually or even monthly to their software, so I could give it a trial run without having to cough up the full price,,, ideally I would just keep using the Studio One Pro since I've got some experience with it.

What say ye?

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As long as your DAW can render or output a WAV file, that should be all that is needed for your collaborator’s DAW to use. 

That said, AC turned me on to Reaper which we both use. Cheap and fairly intuitive and it is well-supported. Pro Tools is the industry standard and is priced like it.

I’m sticking with Reaper.

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7 minutes ago, Jakeboy said:

As long as your DAW can render or output a WAV file, that should be all that is needed for your collaborator’s DAW to use. 

That said, AC turned me on to Reaper which we both use. Cheap and fairly intuitive and it is well-supported. Pro Tools is the industry standard and is priced like it.

I’m sticking with Reaper.

I was thinking that you couldn't sync up the click tracks with just a WAV, but I guess you could by manually moving the WAV track...

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What are the others in the ban using?  

I think both Logic and garageband has a feature to share a smaller version of the project to collaborate easier.

I don't know if logic has a demo anymore but for the price it is an amazing piece of software.  If you are at all related to education, either as a student, teacher, professor, employee you could get the apple education bundle and get all of their Pro apps for $199.

 

https://www.apple.com/us-hed/shop/product/BMGE2Z/A/pro-apps-bundle-for-education

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All DAWs should be able to mix down to WAV or AIFF (full resolution/size audio files).  They should also be able to export the stems (individual tracks) as same types of files for someone to drop into their DAW and mix.  

If you're just looking around at stuff, consider Logic, Studio One, Cubase, ProTools, MOTU Digital Performer.  

Logic doesn't have a trial, but it's only like $299 in the Mac App Store and it will show you when there are updates.  I paid for it years ago and have gotten all updates since for free.  It includes a lot of synth sounds, samples and drum kits etc.  You have to download them separately once you set up the app, but it's GBs worth of stuff and the plugins included are pretty good. 

The thing I don't like about the subscription model is you're paying that forever.  It does make it easier to get in, though, but just tossing it out there.  You're basically paying over time and then constantly paying for the updates.  It's just a matter of which method you prefer or need.  

Ultimately, it doesn't matter what you choose, the most important thing is to pick something that can grow with you and stay relevant.  For me, you buy Logic and you have Logic.  ProTools and some others have different versions, etc.  I personally hate having to sift through which version I want now vs. later.  But, the main thing is to get one, learn it enough to get up and rolling, and you'll continue to learn about it over time and get more efficient with it.  

 

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1 hour ago, mathman said:

What are the others in the ban using?  

I think both Logic and garageband has a feature to share a smaller version of the project to collaborate easier.

I don't know if logic has a demo anymore but for the price it is an amazing piece of software.  If you are at all related to education, either as a student, teacher, professor, employee you could get the apple education bundle and get all of their Pro apps for $199.

 

https://www.apple.com/us-hed/shop/product/BMGE2Z/A/pro-apps-bundle-for-education

I've reached out this morning to see what everyone is using,,, so far I have 1 Pro Tools. My sister teaches, maybe I get her to buy it for me 😎

1 hour ago, scottcald said:

All DAWs should be able to mix down to WAV or AIFF (full resolution/size audio files).  They should also be able to export the stems (individual tracks) as same types of files for someone to drop into their DAW and mix.  

If you're just looking around at stuff, consider Logic, Studio One, Cubase, ProTools, MOTU Digital Performer.  

Logic doesn't have a trial, but it's only like $299 in the Mac App Store and it will show you when there are updates.  I paid for it years ago and have gotten all updates since for free.  It includes a lot of synth sounds, samples and drum kits etc.  You have to download them separately once you set up the app, but it's GBs worth of stuff and the plugins included are pretty good. 

The thing I don't like about the subscription model is you're paying that forever.  It does make it easier to get in, though, but just tossing it out there.  You're basically paying over time and then constantly paying for the updates.  It's just a matter of which method you prefer or need.  

Ultimately, it doesn't matter what you choose, the most important thing is to pick something that can grow with you and stay relevant.  For me, you buy Logic and you have Logic.  ProTools and some others have different versions, etc.  I personally hate having to sift through which version I want now vs. later.  But, the main thing is to get one, learn it enough to get up and rolling, and you'll continue to learn about it over time and get more efficient with it.  

 

 

The subscription setup looks like a car lease setup,,, you're always making payments but your always driving something new. Maybe I need to do some cost projections including the eventual upgrades you might have to purchase eventually. I imagine a lot of people don't upgrade every time,,, maybe every 3 updates or so they'll upgrade.

Edited by LordsoftheJungle

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Is there something about S1 Pro you don't like, or find difficult to use? You see a good number of former PT users on the S1 forums, that's for sure.

Why not just let the other band members install S1 using your credentials? I forget how many exactly off the top of my head, but you get three, or five, installs with your account.

I saw the thread too late to comment, but I'm still trying to figure out why, with owning S1, you didn't go with a couple of Quantums for what you spent on the Apollo? 😉

 

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1 hour ago, Lockbody said:

Is there something about S1 Pro you don't like, or find difficult to use? You see a good number of former PT users on the S1 forums, that's for sure.

Why not just let the other band members install S1 using your credentials? I forget how many exactly off the top of my head, but you get three, or five, installs with your account. 

I saw the thread too late to comment, but I'm still trying to figure out why, with owning S1, you didn't go with a couple of Quantums for what you spent on the Apollo? 😉

 

The main driver is advice from trusted pros the band members know. The sentiment is that the AD/DA converters of the Apollo are a step above the rest.

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Regardless of platform, record all tracks to a click with at least two bars of space, but all tracks starting at zero. And also to the mix engineers preferred specs, usually 24/48.

Before you go to bounce your individual tracks (to a folder you already made to send along...) put a square wave pop on beats one and two of the first measure of each track.

This gives the mix engineer two square visual aids to line up if there’s any transfer issues, and then plenty of space for them to trim.

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11 hours ago, geoff_hartwell said:

Regardless of platform, record all tracks to a click with at least two bars of space, but all tracks starting at zero. And also to the mix engineers preferred specs, usually 24/48.

Before you go to bounce your individual tracks (to a folder you already made to send along...) put a square wave pop on beats one and two of the first measure of each track.

This gives the mix engineer two square visual aids to line up if there’s any transfer issues, and then plenty of space for them to trim.

Excellent points, thank you. Until now I had been starting the click track at zero but not always starting the recording at zero. Kinda stupid now that I think about it!

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On 1/25/2019 at 4:31 PM, Lockbody said:

Why not just let the other band members install S1 using your credentials?

I get that it's often confusing and the EULA is mostly legal-speak, but I deal with this kind of thing in my job all the time.  The person who purchases the license can install it on machines they own, but only one activated machine can be in use at a time. There's no sharing of a license.  Each person needs to purchase their own.   The only software I've seen that allows that is Microsoft Office Home License, or free software. 

This is from Presonus' EULA:

5.2 For Licensed Software from the STUDIO ONE product line:

(a) Licensee is granted one (1) license to install and use the Licensed Software on a single computer at a time. Licensee may install and use the software on another computer, but the software may not be in use on more than one computer at a time, unless you purchase additional licenses.

 

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Years ago I ran into Cubase and sticked to it. Started with a smaller license, eventually, being upgraded to pro. Annual upgrades account for something like 8 Euros per month costs including minor updates throughout the year. That's a fair price to me.

Cubase is a full scale pro DAW that's available for both Win and Mac. I have nothing to complain about as it is seriously developed and working as such.

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Well, all the goodies are in :wub:

I'll start setting up the Mac, Ultra Wide Monitor, Magic trackpad and Apollo x8. This weekend.  I think I'm going to "rent" the Pro Tools for a month or so to see how my Studio One stacks up against it. I'd rather save money and use the Studio One if the Pro Tools isn't head and shoulders better. I'm just trying it out because the guitarist is looking to maximize the quality we put out and most everybody in the Biz has Pro Tools. We'll see!

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4 hours ago, LordsoftheJungle said:

Well, all the goodies are in :wub:

I'll start setting up the Mac, Ultra Wide Monitor, Magic trackpad and Apollo x8. This weekend.  I think I'm going to "rent" the Pro Tools for a month or so to see how my Studio One stacks up against it. I'd rather save money and use the Studio One if the Pro Tools isn't head and shoulders better. I'm just trying it out because the guitarist is looking to maximize the quality we put out and most everybody in the Biz has Pro Tools. We'll see!

I'm not one to get something only because other people are using it.  Will you need to send a ProTools session to anyone? Unless you're sharing the work with other people who are using only ProTools, you don't need to jump to ProTools.  Lots of folks never use it.  And, you can always export the stems and they can import them if you are.   

It's like Microsoft Word.  Everyone think you have to have it, but at least 90% of the time, people are sending each other pdf files, so you can just export a pdf from whatever you're using and they'll never care what you're using.  

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How is it going so far?

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On 1/27/2019 at 7:59 PM, gorch said:

Years ago I ran into Cubase and sticked to it. Started with a smaller license, eventually, being upgraded to pro. Annual upgrades account for something like 8 Euros per month costs including minor updates throughout the year. That's a fair price to me.

Cubase is a full scale pro DAW that's available for both Win and Mac. I have nothing to complain about as it is seriously developed and working as such.

Cubase is great. It's a Steinberg software. It's been around since forever. It works great for PC's. 

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Posted (edited)
On 3/10/2019 at 1:21 PM, mathman said:

How is it going so far?

Sorry I missed this post for so long. Things have been going great. I enjoy using the Mac and the interface upgrade to UA Apollo x8 has proven to make the biggest difference in sound quality of the recordings, it has added obvious depth and weight to the tone. Their digital converters are simply awesome. The UAD plugins are excellent as well though very expensive and can be frustrating because of limited availability (you can only run a handful of them at a time before the processors are overwhelmed). Pro Tools can be frustrating as well, especially during the initial learning curve, but there are several functions in it that make me want to keep it instead of going back to studio one. The I/O setup between it and the Apollo is much more easily managed and the ease of managing the bpm/tempo/click is better than the Studio One.

One problem just recently hitting me is some massive hum and feedback ever since I moved and all the cabs to the tracking room and put all the amp heads together on a shelf. The noise is entering through the guitar pickups (the guitarist plays in the same room) so somehow the new configuration in the room has created an electromagnetic problem. I don't know if it's the close proximity of the amp heads (only one is turned on at any given time) or if it's some bad cabling or power. I hope to figure it out this weekend.

I just recently sold a "redundant" Trainwreck style amp and replaced it with a Marshall Jubilee which should arrive this week. Chasing tones and experimenting with the recording setups has been fun for me, it's different when I'm not the one playing.

 

I could go on and on but I've probably lost the interest of half the readers already so I'll quit, lol.

 

Thx again for all your help!

Edited by LordsoftheJungle

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Ground loop hum?

 

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2 hours ago, mathman said:

Ground loop hum?

 

I don't think so since the other amps are off and the only power being used is to the single amp and sometimes a tube screamer, both are using the same outlet. The guitars themselves haven't been a problem before now, I'm fairly certain they're grounded properly. Will have to dig deeper, I haven't had many electrical issues in the past so I may need to educate myself on all of this,,,

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Ground doesn't care what is on, just what is plugged in and connected iirc.  I had a ground loop problem some years ago that gave me a hum in my monitors but nothing else.  But I did have two different circuits powering things.   Just a simple ground loop circuit eliminated it.  Spent some time trying to find another way but my little corner studio was simpliest to fix with the cable adapter.

 

It can be a pain to diagnose it.

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1 hour ago, mathman said:

Ground doesn't care what is on, just what is plugged in and connected iirc.  I had a ground loop problem some years ago that gave me a hum in my monitors but nothing else.  But I did have two different circuits powering things.   Just a simple ground loop circuit eliminated it.  Spent some time trying to find another way but my little corner studio was simpliest to fix with the cable adapter.

 

It can be a pain to diagnose it.

Thx, I've got six amps on the same circuit, would I need multiple adapters? I read one way of dealing with this would be to have only one amp grounded and have the other grounds lifted with 3 to 2 prong adapters. 

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Please don't use those ground lift adapters if there's a problem.  That's just asking for trouble...

 

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, fractal said:

Please don't use those ground lift adapters if there's a problem.  That's just asking for trouble...

 

So it turned out to the Tube Screamer plugged into the same circuit that was causing all the noise. Once out of the circuit everything returned back to normal. I tried a Way Huge Saucy Box in its place and everything was still good, so it's something about the TS that it doesn't like. Maybe the Saucy Box's buffer helps out.

Edited by LordsoftheJungle

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