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Dasein

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Just now, MCChris said:

Better wait until tomorrow, I just ate a Big Grab bag of Chili Cheese Fritos. Although maybe that's preferable? 

You seem to have deep rooted coprophagy issues, do you want to talk about how your father shouldn't have done those things to you when you were young?

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59 minutes ago, Dasein said:

I never knew there were Don Dokken fanboys .... until TGP. Like can’t some things be universally despised? Can’t we just agree on Don and be done?

The best--and perhaps the only redeeming--things about Dokken were the songs, riffs, and grooves written/recorded by George Lynch, Jeff Pilson, and Mick Brown.  Most of the corroborated stories of the original Dokken era seem to coalesce around Don being a total dick to his bandmates. ETA: Of course, GL has been known to act like a douche from time-to-time, as well, but I don't see the native d-baggery in him that seems to be Don's long-standing reputation.

Now...as for Winger:  I get why a lot of folks didn't care for the lyrical pablum of their hits and Kip's exploitation of the "hunk" label--both were repellent. But the music they recorded was much more complex than 90+% of the hair metal genre. They had considerable command of their instruments, and it was exceedingly rare in rock or metal to hear tricks like Morgenstein's backward drum groove during the bridge on "Seventeen".  Let's give the guys some credit for what they did well whilst we issue scathing rebukes of their myriad faux pas. 

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8 minutes ago, Biz Prof said:

The best--and perhaps the only redeeming--things about Dokken were the songs, riffs, and grooves written/recorded by George Lynch, Jeff Pilson, and Mick Brown. 

Now...as for Winger:  I get why a lot of folks didn't care for the lyrical pablum of their hits and Kip's exploitation of the "hunk" label--both were repellent. But the music they recorded was much more complex than 90+% of the hair metal genre. They had considerable command of their instruments, and it was exceedingly rare in rock or metal to hear tricks like Morgenstein's backward drum groove during the bridge on "Seventeen".  Let's give the guys some credit for what they did well whilst we issue scathing rebukes of their myriad faux pas. 

The VAST majority of those who ranked on Winger could never play their material correctly if they tried.   As such, I believe much of their disdain was rooted in jealousy. 

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24 minutes ago, Ed Rechts said:

Since we're in the middle of a thread hijack, can someone tell me why there's so much hate for Don Dokken? @Dasein @Stike

Edited to add: Brick City Crab Dangle!!!!!

I don't hate Don but I have posted before that as a singer and frontman I think he's kind of weaksauce. Some others agree and that will get a few fan boys harumphing.

 

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2 minutes ago, Ed Rechts said:

That makes sense. Don is kinda like a more cynical Gene Simmons (if that's possible), he's all business and he's gotten progressively bitter over the years that he didn't get headliner status in the metal arena rock era.

George got all the love.

I attended the Monsters of Rock 1988 @ Giants Stadium.  Dokken's mix was terrible and they stood on stage like statues.  While Metallica was much the same, they were bringing a new genre to bear.   

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4 minutes ago, Ed Rechts said:

I saw them open for Aerosmith in '87 at The Capitol Center in Maryland, and George Lynch passed out 3 songs into their set. Their show ended right there. People were PISSED.

Be that as it may, here's a video fro that same tour, filmed within 2 days of that debacle, where they are just KILLING it:

 

As I was saying:

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3 hours ago, kizanski said:

That only means he thought Matte is a bigger asshole than you. Now, you have your moments, but that's a no-brainer.

Moments?  You're too kind.  And how many people have said that to you lately!  Love ya' brother.;)

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26 minutes ago, Ed Rechts said:

That makes sense. Don is kinda like a more cynical Gene Simmons (if that's possible), he's all business and he's gotten progressively bitter over the years that he didn't get headliner status in the arena metal-rock era. Even his former bass player got into RATT and surpassed him, that's fucked up.

George got all the love.

Not that it's great or even good but watching the making of Hearing Aid "Stars" and hearing a bunch of singers back to back to back with Don in there-it kind of highlights his "okayness".

Speaking of Stars, does anyone give props to Dave Meniketti's vocals? Dude's got pipes.

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56 minutes ago, Studio Custom said:

The VAST majority of those who ranked on Winger could never play their material correctly if they tried.   As such, I believe much of their disdain was rooted in jealous. 

My problem with Winger is — inauthenticity. Monster players, monster chops, could have done anything - literally anything in music.... they chose to do the what they did as part of a completely inauthentic and calculated financial move...... and they chose poorly and have never lived it down.

Could I play like Reb back in the day? Too right I could. Pre accident I was a monster player in the late 80’s and early 90’s..... but I don’t think monster chops are a pre-requisite to criticism.....  

Why was Van Halen authentic and awesome? Because That was who they were.... Why was Winger inauthentic? Because Winger was who they chose to be, not what they were. They had options.

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1 minute ago, Stike said:

Speaking of Stars, does anyone give props to Dave Meniketti's vocals? Dude's got pipes.

I love Y&T.  Earthshaker's Dirty Girl is one of my favorite songs.  They used to have a video montage on NightFlight on USA on Saturday nights of their obscure videos MTV never showed.  A bandmember wanted to play Summertime Girls and I told him, "That ain't fuckin' Y&T, that's some commercial bullshit Dave came up with to get on MTV!"

Saw them open for DLR w/ Vai.  He played the '68 LP the entire night and was incredible.  Sang every song impeccably.  As you say Ben, "great pipes".  Great vibrato too.

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6 minutes ago, Stike said:

Speaking of Stars, does anyone give props to Dave Meniketti's vocals? Dude's got pipes.

Definitely. I think he brought a kind of Don Breweresque virility to the songs.

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3 minutes ago, Dasein said:

My problem with Winger is — inauthenticity. Monster players, monster chops, could have done anything - literally anything in music.... they chose to do the what they did as part of a completely inauthentic and calculated financial move...... and they chose poorly and have never lived it down.

Could I play like Reb back in the day? Too right I could. Pre accident I was a monster player in the late 80’s and early 90’s..... but I don’t think monster chops are a pre-requisite to criticism.....  

Why was Van Halen authentic and awesome? Because That was who they were.... Why was Winger inauthentic? Because Winger was who they chose to be, not what they were. They had options.

The entire Van Halen shtick was just as cheesy, just earlier in the evolution of hair metal, so they got a pass UNTIL Sammy joined.  

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1 minute ago, Biz Prof said:

Definitely. I think he brought a kind of Don Breweresque virility to the songs.

Virility, that's exactly what Don (Dokken not Brewer) is lacking. Always seemed theater kid does rock sorta thing to me.

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3 minutes ago, Studio Custom said:

The entire Van Halen shtick was just as cheesy, just earlier in the evolution of hair metal, so they got a pass UNTIL Sammy joined.  

It was cheesy but it was them - it’s literally who they were. Eddie was a drunken savant, Alex was smarter but still a drunkard with a chip on his shoulder aspiring to class jump, Dave was Dave - a kooky dreamer with all kinds of sauce and sizzle.... (all 3 coked to the gills) Mike was a good dude.... Van Halen was what they made up as they went along.... what the kids inspired them to be..... it was a shake n bake of California sun and cool fueled by the Bolivian marching powder in the post 70’s collapse of the benzo culture of highway murders and hitchhiker abductions.... Van Halen was the antidote to a disease.

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6 minutes ago, Dasein said:

It was cheesy but it was them - it’s literally who they were. Eddie was a drunken savant, Alex was smarter but still a drunkard with a chip on his shoulder aspiring to class jump, Dave was Dave - a kooky dreamer with all kinds of sauce and sizzle.... (all 3 coked to the gills) Mike was a good dude.... Van Halen was what they made up as they went along.... what the kids inspired them to be..... it was a shake n bake of California sun and cool fueled by the Bolivian marching powder in the post 70’s collapse of the benzo culture of highway murders and hitchhiker abductions.... Van Halen was the antidote to a disease.

I will concede to your point. Even as a young and dumb teenager, I knew full well that VH were self-parodying. Winger did a lot of posing, which make it all the worse for them as metal died and gave way to three-chord fuzz and flannel.

ETA: I put Winger and Stryper in the same file in my mind:  Lyrics that beg for a total rehash, wayyyy too much posing and distracting aesthetic nonsense, but incredibly complex musicianship and precise chops that made a lot of other metal bands look like amateurs.

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9 minutes ago, Stike said:

Virility, that's exactly what Don (Dokken not Brewer) is lacking. Always seemed theater kid does rock sorta thing to me.

Don’s real name is Blaine, and at the end of every show he’d take off the wig and go home for sit down dinners with his very white upper middle class parents and they’d all talk about mutual funds and interest rates while wondering when Blaine would settle down...

basically Don Dokken was just a costume for some east coast WASP playing rockstar. At least that’s what I always thought. 

*this is my speculation entirely. Don’s name might not be Blaine but he sure looks like a Blaine.

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I'm betting it was the Neil Young content, lol.

I've had good dealings with Big Mike. I suspect that anyone moderating a forum of 181k members will eventually throw up their hands and default to "Fuck it, ban."

I've gotten some great info from TGP over the years. There are still contributors like David Torn, Pete Thorn, Johnny A, Steve Kimock, Aram Bajakian, John Suhr, Terry McInturff, Ron Thorn, Walter Wright, Cliff Chase, Christoph Kemper, and the Line 6 guys, but yeah, it isn't what it once was. No more Elliot Easton, James Wilsey, Dave Kilminster, James Valentine, Tomo Fujita, David Collins, ....

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2 hours ago, burningyen said:

I'm betting it was the Neil Young content, lol.

I've had good dealings with Big Mike. I suspect that anyone moderating a forum of 181k members will eventually throw up their hands and default to "Fuck it, ban."

I've gotten some great info from TGP over the years. There are still contributors like David Torn, Pete Thorn, Johnny A, Steve Kimock, Aram Bajakian, John Suhr, Terry McInturff, Ron Thorn, Walter Wright, Cliff Chase, Christoph Kemper, and the Line 6 guys, but yeah, it isn't what it once was. No more Elliot Easton, James Wilsey, Dave Kilminster, James Valentine, Tomo Fujita, David Collins, ....

I would never have thought ol’ Neil would have been my undoing over there. I turn 50  in a week - I’m approaching the demographic pretty damn fast.  I guess this ol’ Northern man don’t need Neil around now either — not if it means I turn into a humorless old bastard hiding from my mortality.

you're right about the mix of pros present and absent. I actually saw dudes taking pot shots at the pros in threads so I understand it.....  the great balance to preserve the sanctity of mediocre opinions. Good times indeed.

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