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Dasein

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Just now, MCChris said:

Better wait until tomorrow, I just ate a Big Grab bag of Chili Cheese Fritos. Although maybe that's preferable? 

You seem to have deep rooted coprophagy issues, do you want to talk about how your father shouldn't have done those things to you when you were young?

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59 minutes ago, Dasein said:

I never knew there were Don Dokken fanboys .... until TGP. Like can’t some things be universally despised? Can’t we just agree on Don and be done?

The best--and perhaps the only redeeming--things about Dokken were the songs, riffs, and grooves written/recorded by George Lynch, Jeff Pilson, and Mick Brown.  Most of the corroborated stories of the original Dokken era seem to coalesce around Don being a total dick to his bandmates. ETA: Of course, GL has been known to act like a douche from time-to-time, as well, but I don't see the native d-baggery in him that seems to be Don's long-standing reputation.

Now...as for Winger:  I get why a lot of folks didn't care for the lyrical pablum of their hits and Kip's exploitation of the "hunk" label--both were repellent. But the music they recorded was much more complex than 90+% of the hair metal genre. They had considerable command of their instruments, and it was exceedingly rare in rock or metal to hear tricks like Morgenstein's backward drum groove during the bridge on "Seventeen".  Let's give the guys some credit for what they did well whilst we issue scathing rebukes of their myriad faux pas. 

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8 minutes ago, Biz Prof said:

The best--and perhaps the only redeeming--things about Dokken were the songs, riffs, and grooves written/recorded by George Lynch, Jeff Pilson, and Mick Brown. 

Now...as for Winger:  I get why a lot of folks didn't care for the lyrical pablum of their hits and Kip's exploitation of the "hunk" label--both were repellent. But the music they recorded was much more complex than 90+% of the hair metal genre. They had considerable command of their instruments, and it was exceedingly rare in rock or metal to hear tricks like Morgenstein's backward drum groove during the bridge on "Seventeen".  Let's give the guys some credit for what they did well whilst we issue scathing rebukes of their myriad faux pas. 

The VAST majority of those who ranked on Winger could never play their material correctly if they tried.   As such, I believe much of their disdain was rooted in jealousy. 

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2 minutes ago, Biz Prof said:

The best--and perhaps the only redeeming--things about Dokken were the songs, riffs, and grooves written/recorded by George Lynch, Jeff Pilson, and Mick Brown. 

I will say this much, when I moved to LA in August of 1985, Don was one of the first people I met, and he was ALWAYS very nice to me, which seems unlikely given that I'm kind of an asshole myself.

Oh wait, I think I just answered my own question

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24 minutes ago, Ed Rechts said:

Since we're in the middle of a thread hijack, can someone tell me why there's so much hate for Don Dokken? @Dasein @Stike

Edited to add: Brick City Crab Dangle!!!!!

I don't hate Don but I have posted before that as a singer and frontman I think he's kind of weaksauce. Some others agree and that will get a few fan boys harumphing.

 

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4 minutes ago, Stike said:

I don't hate Don but I have posted before that as a singer and frontman I think he's kind of weaksauce. Some others agree and that will get a few fan boys harumphing.

That makes sense. Don is kinda like a more cynical Gene Simmons (if that's possible), he's all business and he's gotten progressively bitter over the years that he didn't get headliner status in the arena metal-rock era. Even his former bass player got into RATT and surpassed him, that's fucked up.

George got all the love.

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2 minutes ago, Ed Rechts said:

That makes sense. Don is kinda like a more cynical Gene Simmons (if that's possible), he's all business and he's gotten progressively bitter over the years that he didn't get headliner status in the metal arena rock era.

George got all the love.

I attended the Monsters of Rock 1988 @ Giants Stadium.  Dokken's mix was terrible and they stood on stage like statues.  While Metallica was much the same, they were bringing a new genre to bear.   

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3 minutes ago, Studio Custom said:

I attended the Monsters of Rock 1988 @ Giants Stadium.  Dokken's mix was terrible and they stood on stage like statues.  While Metallica was much the same, they were bringing a new genre to bear.   

I saw them open for Aerosmith in '87 at The Capitol Center in Maryland, and George Lynch passed out 3 songs into their set. Their show ended right there. People were PISSED.

Be that as it may, here's a video fro that same tour, filmed within 2 days of that debacle, where they are just KILLING it:

 

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4 minutes ago, Ed Rechts said:

I saw them open for Aerosmith in '87 at The Capitol Center in Maryland, and George Lynch passed out 3 songs into their set. Their show ended right there. People were PISSED.

Be that as it may, here's a video fro that same tour, filmed within 2 days of that debacle, where they are just KILLING it:

 

As I was saying:

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3 hours ago, kizanski said:

That only means he thought Matte is a bigger asshole than you. Now, you have your moments, but that's a no-brainer.

Moments?  You're too kind.  And how many people have said that to you lately!  Love ya' brother.;)

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26 minutes ago, Ed Rechts said:

That makes sense. Don is kinda like a more cynical Gene Simmons (if that's possible), he's all business and he's gotten progressively bitter over the years that he didn't get headliner status in the arena metal-rock era. Even his former bass player got into RATT and surpassed him, that's fucked up.

George got all the love.

Not that it's great or even good but watching the making of Hearing Aid "Stars" and hearing a bunch of singers back to back to back with Don in there-it kind of highlights his "okayness".

Speaking of Stars, does anyone give props to Dave Meniketti's vocals? Dude's got pipes.

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56 minutes ago, Studio Custom said:

The VAST majority of those who ranked on Winger could never play their material correctly if they tried.   As such, I believe much of their disdain was rooted in jealous. 

My problem with Winger is — inauthenticity. Monster players, monster chops, could have done anything - literally anything in music.... they chose to do the what they did as part of a completely inauthentic and calculated financial move...... and they chose poorly and have never lived it down.

Could I play like Reb back in the day? Too right I could. Pre accident I was a monster player in the late 80’s and early 90’s..... but I don’t think monster chops are a pre-requisite to criticism.....  

Why was Van Halen authentic and awesome? Because That was who they were.... Why was Winger inauthentic? Because Winger was who they chose to be, not what they were. They had options.

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1 minute ago, Stike said:

Speaking of Stars, does anyone give props to Dave Meniketti's vocals? Dude's got pipes.

I love Y&T.  Earthshaker's Dirty Girl is one of my favorite songs.  They used to have a video montage on NightFlight on USA on Saturday nights of their obscure videos MTV never showed.  A bandmember wanted to play Summertime Girls and I told him, "That ain't fuckin' Y&T, that's some commercial bullshit Dave came up with to get on MTV!"

Saw them open for DLR w/ Vai.  He played the '68 LP the entire night and was incredible.  Sang every song impeccably.  As you say Ben, "great pipes".  Great vibrato too.

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6 minutes ago, Stike said:

Speaking of Stars, does anyone give props to Dave Meniketti's vocals? Dude's got pipes.

Definitely. I think he brought a kind of Don Breweresque virility to the songs.

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3 minutes ago, Dasein said:

My problem with Winger is — inauthenticity. Monster players, monster chops, could have done anything - literally anything in music.... they chose to do the what they did as part of a completely inauthentic and calculated financial move...... and they chose poorly and have never lived it down.

Could I play like Reb back in the day? Too right I could. Pre accident I was a monster player in the late 80’s and early 90’s..... but I don’t think monster chops are a pre-requisite to criticism.....  

Why was Van Halen authentic and awesome? Because That was who they were.... Why was Winger inauthentic? Because Winger was who they chose to be, not what they were. They had options.

The entire Van Halen shtick was just as cheesy, just earlier in the evolution of hair metal, so they got a pass UNTIL Sammy joined.  

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1 minute ago, Biz Prof said:

Definitely. I think he brought a kind of Don Breweresque virility to the songs.

Virility, that's exactly what Don (Dokken not Brewer) is lacking. Always seemed theater kid does rock sorta thing to me.

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