Jump to content
Hamer Fan Club Message Center
Sign in to follow this  
Dave Scepter

Hamer Korina Futura

Recommended Posts

3 minutes ago, bruce919 said:

That one is tempting.  I am sure it will not last long. 

Agreed, especially with a "Make Offer" option

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's my old one. Sold it 3 years ago to someone (not the current seller) in NC for just slightly less than they're asking. It's part of a special run of korina standards and futuras for Kaman music in Japan. Fantastic guitar. 

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had no idea that this even existed. I thought the only Futuras were the Rick Nielsen ones. Very cool!!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, shankyboy said:

I had no idea that this even existed. I thought the only Futuras were the Rick Nielsen ones. Very cool!!

Regarding the USA Futuras, there were the prototypes,  one which was stolen from Frank U from his car showing dealers, ( I believe that unit has never been found). Then there were originally 36 of the Korina RN models made for the "Live At Budokan" 20th Anniversary.  There were some additional RN models made after the original run.   Besides the RN model, there were maybe a dozen additional non RN USA Futuras.  One board member here if I recall correctly had two custom Futuras made.   Then there were the ones made for Japan.  Chris "Not Steve" Matthes had posted the marketing piece for the Japan models which was a great read.   

"#40" was posted by Pete Flynn on Reverb not too long ago.

Hamerica

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

An interesting "feature" that I've seen on the Japan Futura guitars is that they all seem to have some staining on the back from the case. I'm not sure how it happened, but it is consistent with all the ones I've seen for sale. 

Here's the Japanese ad Hamerica referenced, I downloaded it the last time Chris posted it.

y4mssFTobgEDnyqpGjPTFVbvAe4X3u-l6QmpcAjQ

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Hamerica said:

Regarding the USA Futuras, there were the prototypes,  one which was stolen from Frank U from his car showing dealers, ( I believe that unit has never been found). Then there were originally 36 of the Korina RN models made for the "Live At Budokan" 20th Anniversary.  There were some additional RN models made after the original run.   Besides the RN model, there were maybe a dozen additional non RN USA Futuras.  One board member here if I recall correctly had two custom Futuras made.   Then there were the ones made for Japan.  Chris "Not Steve" Matthes had posted the marketing piece for the Japan models which was a great read.   

"#40" was posted by Pete Flynn on Reverb not too long ago.

Hamerica

Great info. Thanks. I have #22 of the RN model. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Feel the mellow gold...

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shankyboy,

My pleasure, holy crap, man I am getting old!   I forgot about the Bill Kaman Futura as well....that's really sad.  

Hamerica

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Funny story on how we got the shape (obviously no original to measure/trace).  This is for the original run for Bill K.

At my suggestion we took the original patent drawing, borrowed an old style overhead projector a fellow employee rescued from a school trash bin, and projected the image onto a piece of paper taped to the wall.

once the image was adjusted so the humbucker ring in our hand matched the size of the ring on the image on the paper, the body was at the proper scale and we simply traced it.

32D619AB-4E67-4D50-A05F-646B2D245417.png

Edited by mirrorimij
  • Like 10
  • Thanks 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, mirrorimij said:

Funny story on how we got the shape (obviously no original to measure/trace).  This is for the original run for Bill K.

At my suggestion we took the original patent drawing, borrowed an old style overhead projector a fellow employee rescued from a school trash bin, and projected the image onto a piece of paper taped to the wall.

once the image was adjusted so the humbucker ring in our hand matched the size of the ring on the image on the paper, the body was at the proper scale and we simply traced it.

32D619AB-4E67-4D50-A05F-646B2D245417.png

lol, that's hilarious. If it weren't for the handshake agreement between Hamer and Gibson, that story right there would be Exhibit A in an infringement lawsuit.

  • Like 3
  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It still kills me that they were so lax about protecting their IP.   A handshake agreement...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Handshake agreements are good between people who love making instruments.  Hamer was never expected to make a big dent in Gibson sales when they started in the 70s.  Gibson was on top at that time. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it was more than a handshake....I’ve shared this before.  A year or two after I started at Hamer (it was probably 92 or 93) we had to stop using the bell truss rod cover and we had to slightly modify the headstock scroll.  I think it was an agreement or settlement of some sort and that maybe Heritage was involved too.  I thought Frank said we were allowed to build Vs, Explorer shapes, etc per the agreement.

Anybody?

  • Like 6
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had lunch with someone very familiar with the Hamer company several years ago and one of the topics of discussion was the "Pat Pend", trademark registration, Gibson's perception of their "IP" and the enforcement of trademarks.  This conversation probably occurred before or during the infamous PRS lawsuit (time does fly) as I had an interest in the enforcement of trademarks.

"As the story goes" there was a long standing agreement (or understanding) between Gibson and Hamer corporately.  The agreement or understanding based upon a "gentlemen's agreement"  (can't tell you if it was a handshake, verbal agreement or a memorandum of understanding) is originally all Hamer management had. Clearly, whatever was agreed upon allowed the production of the Hamer Standard and the Sunburst.  Therefore Steve Haynies post is correct regarding the practice between builders during the 1970's time period. 

Gibson informed many guitar manufacturers of their intent to enforce their registered trademarks right after Henry Juszkiewicz and his team shortly took over (1986).   I call this Gibson Enforcement Version 1.0.   Hamer was on the list but not top of the list as Gibson had already acknowledged the "gentlemen's agreement".  Sometime in the early '90's Gibson management met with then Hamer management to clarify the "gentlemen's agreement".   The parties updated the "gentlemen's agreement" to include mirrorimijs understanding which was legal and binding.  Upon that formal written agreement, Hamer Guitars was able to continue to make the Standard, Sunburst, V's, Juniors, Specials and et al under the Hamer brand.

Everything was well in the Kingdom of Guitar Manufacturers until Gibson started losing sales to other guitar makers.  Once again, HJ and his team looked at the tactics to increase protect their diminishing bottom line. Gibsons trademark enforcement resulted into the now infamous "Singlecut" lawsuit with PRS over the Les Paul Model.  (Man, there was some great posts back in the day with this topic). Resulting to Gibson Enforcement Version 2.0 and 2.1  This was pretty significant as Gibson's legal team at the time decided to send out a "blanket you have been notified correspondence" to several guitar manufacturers which Kaman now the owners of Hamer once again was erroneously included.  This prompted Gibson and Kaman management once again to meet and the end result was another legal binding agreement which allowed the continued operation of Hamer USA and the Hamer import line as agreed to at that time. 

The current "cease and desist" by Gibson CEO James "JC" Curleigh, the self proclaimed "modern day wizard of Oz" is an "Ode to Homage" to Henry J. and the previous Gibson team. The latest "cease and desist or I will take you to court" (I refer to to GEV 3.0 and etc.) is nothing new.   Gibson getting spanked in Europe is sort of funny as they had no standing; they failed to enforce their trademark...something the current Hamer brand owners have in common.   The ruling in UK has no standing in the USA, nor does shed any light on the outcome of the any future Gibson lawsuit acts including the one with Dean.

As for me, I am just grateful I am the caretaker of some of the best quality musical instruments built by the finest craftsmen from the '70's, 80's, 90's, and beyond that all proudly have the Hamer USA brand on them including the OP's original post Hamer USA Futuras.

Hamerica

 

 

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My understanding is in line with Bob and Brian’s recollections above.  I also recall that in 2007 or thereabouts, Hamer was going to stop selling guitars with crown inlays.   I was told to order a Standard by a certain date if I wanted crowns, because after that, they were to be no mas.   That eventually got lifted, but for about a year or  so, I had been the owner of the last Standard with crown inlays.  😆

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/15/2019 at 7:07 PM, Hamerica said:

I had lunch with someone very familiar with the Hamer company several years ago and one of the topics of discussion was the "Pat Pend", trademark registration, Gibson's perception of their "IP" and the enforcement of trademarks.  This conversation probably occurred before or during the infamous PRS lawsuit (time does fly) as I had an interest in the enforcement of trademarks.

"As the story goes" there was a long standing agreement (or understanding) between Gibson and Hamer corporately.  The agreement or understanding based upon a "gentlemen's agreement"  (can't tell you if it was a handshake, verbal agreement or a memorandum of understanding) is originally all Hamer management had. Clearly, whatever was agreed upon allowed the production of the Hamer Standard and the Sunburst.  Therefore Steve Haynies post is correct regarding the practice between builders during the 1970's time period. 

Gibson informed many guitar manufacturers of their intent to enforce their registered trademarks right after Henry Juszkiewicz and his team shortly took over (1986).   I call this Gibson Enforcement Version 1.0.   Hamer was on the list but not top of the list as Gibson had already acknowledged the "gentlemen's agreement".  Sometime in the early '90's Gibson management met with then Hamer management to clarify the "gentlemen's agreement".   The parties updated the "gentlemen's agreement" to include mirrorimijs understanding which was legal and binding.  Upon that formal written agreement, Hamer Guitars was able to continue to make the Standard, Sunburst, V's, Juniors, Specials and et al under the Hamer brand.

Everything was well in the Kingdom of Guitar Manufacturers until Gibson started losing sales to other guitar makers.  Once again, HJ and his team looked at the tactics to increase protect their diminishing bottom line. Gibsons trademark enforcement resulted into the now infamous "Singlecut" lawsuit with PRS over the Les Paul Model.  (Man, there was some great posts back in the day with this topic). Resulting to Gibson Enforcement Version 2.0 and 2.1  This was pretty significant as Gibson's legal team at the time decided to send out a "blanket you have been notified correspondence" to several guitar manufacturers which Kaman now the owners of Hamer once again was erroneously included.  This prompted Gibson and Kaman management once again to meet and the end result was another legal binding agreement which allowed the continued operation of Hamer USA and the Hamer import line as agreed to at that time. 

The current "cease and desist" by Gibson CEO James "JC" Curleigh, the self proclaimed "modern day wizard of Oz" is an "Ode to Homage" to Henry J. and the previous Gibson team. The latest "cease and desist or I will take you to court" (I refer to to GEV 3.0 and etc.) is nothing new.   Gibson getting spanked in Europe is sort of funny as they had no standing; they failed to enforce their trademark...something the current Hamer brand owners have in common.   The ruling in UK has no standing in the USA, nor does shed any light on the outcome of the any future Gibson lawsuit acts including the one with Dean.

As for me, I am just grateful I am the caretaker of some of the best quality musical instruments built by the finest craftsmen from the '70's, 80's, 90's, and beyond that all proudly have the Hamer USA brand on them including the OP's original post Hamer USA Futuras.

Hamerica

 

 

 

But as I undstood it the current owners of the Hamer brand were told to stop building Standards. And did so. So, the agreement is no longer valid with the new owners?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Distruber, 

Sorry, I don't have any information on the current ownership of Hamer or their product line.   What I posted was based upon my recollection of a conversation with Hamer ownership of the company during that timeframe. 

"So, the agreement is no longer valid with the new owners?"

I have no knowledge of what is going on with Hamer currently. 

I can only speculate, "Gibson getting spanked in Europe...failed to enforce their trademark...something the current Hamer brand owners have in common."

There is little doubt Gibson didn't send another blanket of "cease and desists" to guitar manufacturers, including the current owners of the Hamer brand.  Current Hamer ownership failed to protect what they legally had rights too or they did not understand clearly what it was they had purchased, it happens all too often. 

Hamerica

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since it's not the same ownership, it likely didn't transfer.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So... In the haste to shut down and trash Hamer there was more thrown in the dumpster than just the workbenches and papers. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A few posts above mentioned staining from the case.....does anyone have pics?

We rejected a metric shit ton of Korina due to streaks and wormholes.   I seem to recall at one point we shipped a streaky batch.  I wonder if those streaks are what you are talking about.

I also remember (right after the move to CT) an order came in from a member here who attended one of the early factory open houses.  They wanted a guitar built out of the nastiest looking Korina we could find.  I was involved in the conversation since I was selecting wood at the absolute start of the process.  On one hand you had a paying customer who wanted something specific.   On the other hand you’d have a guitar with the Hamer USA logo and it would not look up to standards.   We were afraid if and when it changed hands it would look as if we shipped an inferior product.  Jol said no to the build.  I can see his point.

Ive detailed the thread enough.....my apologies.

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, mirrorimij said:

A few posts above mentioned staining from the case.....does anyone have pics?

Here's a couple of pics of the one I sold (and the one for sale in the OP). Notice the staining on the body back, neck back and bottom. In my never ending searching, I've seen one or two come up for sale in Japan with similar staining. My guess is it was some sort of reaction with the dye in the interior of the case. 

y4mG_BzJ8ir8Puy-6Pvrm5YAYK_AFrrkPdSgOH9F

y4miJ4xWXDa6pQnRGNHVDbOYJr1tN5sB_Z8nsFFO

y4mfwQ7vnPPxgh4IfMtaKNScW8PW6xKR-f9fZo4I

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That looks different than the streaking I was thinking of.   Thanks for the pic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...