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Archtop/Studio, etc. VS. Les Paul 'DC' model?


Mr. Dave

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So it was Friday night and I'd broken out a fresh Marigold rubber glove and a bottle of Mazola to accessorize up for a little guitar-style titillation on my favourite voyeur site, Reverb.  I'd firstly aroused my interest with Hamers, always my first stop, there was a beautiful pair of Newports in cherry red (I noticed one had a slightly bigger price on it than the other) and a mint condition Studio lying there with it's case open looking all inviting and 'come hither' then before I knew it a red '89 Chaparral photographed proud and upright, inviting me to take it home ($140 carriage charge) and do who knows what with its whammy bar, I was sorely tempted, but tonight I was looking for some strange.  Slipping frictionlessly over to a Gibson Les Paul page I all too quickly came across some rather pretty looking Les Paul 'DC' or 'Double Cutaway' models which looked very similar to a Hamer Studio/Sunburst etc.  Very similar specs except for these lovely ladies had 24 fret necks, not Honduras Mahogany too.  So their similarity to the Studio/Archtop was undeniable, the neck joint was perhaps not quite as nicely done as a Hamer but they still looked very nice, coming a whole variety of colours, fitted with quality Grover Tuners, their pickup selector switch in a similar position to the Hamer (I hate the pickup selector position on a 'normal' Les Paul) and some (earlier models as I saw) with a single volume & tone control and others with the 2 volume and master tone arrangement of the Hamer.  Quite a range of prices, in general they don't attract quite the same money as a Les Paul Standard or Traditional, some had slightly flamed tops, others were stunning.  One thing I noticed was the pickups were noticeably closer together on the earlier models like e.g. a 1998 whereas a 2007 looked like the same spacing between pickups as a standard Les Paul.  I've got to say I find these guitars rather attractive.  I know Gibson isn't everyones favourite flavour but out of the 4 Gibsons I've owned, only 1 was a duffer and only really because I found I hated Kluson tuners, with their plastic knobs and cheap aroma on them, theymight be good tuners but they look cheap & flimsy and to me have no place on a 4-figure instrument.   However the first Gibson I owned, an ES335 Cherry Dot that I bought brand new in 1989 for £650 was maybe perhaps possibly the best guitar I ever owned, next to my FR-'d Archtop Custom.  It had an absolutely perfect neck and the lowest action (impossibly low and without even a hint of fret buzz) on any guitar I've ever owned. It played like a dream and I stupidly, stupidly, traded it in for a 1970s Les Paul Custom, which I ended up regretting quite soon.  Anyway I know Gibson have done some stupid things at times and I know their quality control isn't what it once was but has anyone owned one of these 'DC' Les Pauls or had the use of one long enough to have an opinion based on experience of this Les Paul model?  I'd love to hear, well, read your experiences and opinions.   D

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I was chasing one of those when I found my 1st Hamer Studio. A '95.  Since then, I look at the Gibsons when they show up, but buy Hamer when I want another guitar.

Here's a pretty one I saw on Reverb this week. I liked it...

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Until I read the story. I can buy a damn fine Hamer, unmolested, for a lot less than this fake double cut. But I did find it to be pretty.

https://reverb.com/item/28670923-gibson-les-paul-standard-1974-turquoise-celebrity-owned

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Yep that's a fake one alright, but the work's been done well fwiw and the seller isn't attempting to mislead anyone as to what it really is. That said I wouldn't consider buying it this side of hell freezing over.  And not just because to my own eyes that colour is unpleasant in the extreme.  Even if the work was done well it's still a bit of a lash-up and a serious loss could be taken in some future place down the road from now.  I love the Hamer double cutaway guitars, particularly the archtops, especially the thinner neck versions and I definitely want to own a couple more for sure but when I noticed the (real) Gibson double cut on Reverb, it did pique my curiosity somewhat.  There isn't a single decent music shop within well over 100 miles of where I live so when I see something I've not seen before all I can do is ask other people what they might think

 

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I get the allure.  I chased after those for years.  This also led me to Hamer like Hbom above.  I  Especially liked the older ones with the squared off neck join.  I like most everything about the hamers better.  They also balance on a strap better due to the fact that their neck joins the body around the 21st fret vs the 23rd on the Gibson.  This is also the reason for the close together pickups on the Les Paul dc.    I have one jr dc style guitar with a maple top I put together myself, and in a direct comparison to my hamers,  the closer neck position is a little muddier.  The other bonus was until recently the hamers were usually cheaper for a much better guitar    It seems the Les pauls dcs have dropped in price (at least the ones that sell) a lot recently.   

That being said if the right one with the straight pull headstock came up for sale while I was looking to buy I might be tempted.  Problem is I don’t like buying Gibson sight unseen.   To many times I’m underwhelmed when I pick one up.   I’d buy hamers all day long without playing/seeing them   They’re pretty damn consistent in how good they are. 

 

 

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Also I think these were brought to market to compete with PRS.  Flame  tops, mostly in single colors not bursts  double cutaways, 24 frets and the straight string pull.  They didn’t make many with that headstock though.  I’m not a huge tremolo fan, but it’s surprising they didn’t offer that on these.  

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Hey Ua D, thanks for your response. Interesting what you've said regarding balance and the mushy neck pickup.  As I've looked at a few more of these Gibsons today (there's almost 200 of them on Reverb) there are definitely some with a wider space between the pickups and there's some with 22 frets instead of 24.  Given the choice between the Gibson or the Hamer Archtop for a similar price then no hesitations I'd take the Hamer every time but the archtops are getting dearer, certainly in Europe but like you've mentioned there are some cheaper DCs out there.  However I've been very pleased to see quite a few Hamers with overly optimistic pricing failing to sell or being reduced to more realistic prices after gettting no takers.  :) The Specials in particular appear to vary greatly in (asking) price.  There was one I mentioned recently in the 'For Sale' section going for just under £800 + £100-ish shipping from Australia but I've seen others approaching £1800 or more and some of them aren't even in such good shape. I bought a '93  archtop recently for what seemed like a decent price but I've ended up having to spend another £475-ish on it as it badly needed refretting, the tuners were worn and 'slack' so I've had to replace those too and also had to replace that completely unsuitable 'JB' bridge pickup.  Looking at the internal wiring, one of the previous owners must have thought the exact same thing about that JB pickup as I can clearly see where a soldering iron has accidentally melted into it's plastic cable insulation, so at some point it was removed and then re-installed before being sold.  The trouble with buying many 90s guitars now is they'll often need refretting, partly as they'll likely be pretty worn down if they've been played much and personally I don't like Hamer's standard fret wire anyway and have had every Hamer I've bought (5) refretted asap whether it needed it or not, whereas Gibson's tends to be a little more 'jumbo-ish'.  As I've experienced there could be other wear & tear, some of these guitars are nearly 30 years old or older.   I'm not actually thinking about buying an LP DC right now but I did want to know more about it if anyone had owned one so thanks for what you've said, much appreciated.

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No probelms.    One local shop had lots of the Les Paul dcs back in the late 90’s early 2000 and I see them occasionally.  If you get one for the right price might as well try it.  I’ve almost went home with a couple over the years.   There  are all kinds of keepers from all brands.  It’s not like Gibsons are real hard to sell since they’re popular if you don’t gel with it.  That’s usually the biggest perk of a Gibson.  Name recognition. 

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As you noted, whether it'll work for you depends entirely on WHICH Les Paul DC model it is. They've put out so many over the years.  The first ones were the Les Paul Specials back in the day, the ones where almost every one needed a neck repair due to how much the neck pickup routing weakened the joint.

Some that I saw over the years just looked... WRONG. Others looked great.  Some have a REALLY long neck joint, kinda like the double cutaway Heritage guitars, which were almost certainly based on the Gibson ones from the 70s. Some might like that. I don't.

Of course I have two Hamer Studios and two Gibson SG's, so the chances of me having any interest in buying a Gibson Les paul DC are very small.

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