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Et tu Reverb?


diablo175

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On 11/9/2019 at 6:39 AM, diablo175 said:

Cracks that were not there when it was boxed up

Am I just being dense?  This line appears to concede that this was an "item not as described".

Similar to Hameritis, those cracks may be common but they're not desirable.

Maybe the seller was less than honorable but everything seems to have unfolded separate from his intentions.

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25 minutes ago, cynic said:

Am I just being dense?  This line appears to concede that this was an "item not as described".

Similar to Hameritis, those cracks may be common but they're not desirable.

Maybe the seller was less than honorable but everything seems to have unfolded separate from his intentions.

Nope. You're not dense and I didn't ship him a guitar with cracks. Reverb's policy clearly doesn't factor in the potential for hairline cracks. Many sellers won't deal with shipping because of this very issue. The buyer had to weigh his desire for the guitar against the unforeseen, unfortunate  but ultimately insignificant situation. But he made an unfortunate situation worse in how he handled it.  Unbeknownst to you,  several of his nurmeous messages flat out accused me of not disclosing the cracks. Had he approached this differently, it might have ended a lot different. Instead he decided for a power play/gamble to get the guitar for cheaper. Didn't work out for him. Fuck him.

I stand by my assertion that Reverb's policy, though laudable in it's intent to protect buyers from unscrupulous sellers, falls short on practicality. Guitars shipped via air can go through temp differentials of 50 + degrees depending on altitude and weather conditions. Wood expands and contacts. Finishes don't always manage to keep up. They should know that and rewrite their policy to exclude hairline cracks at the neck pocket.

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37 minutes ago, mrjamiam said:

Check the condition closely when it comes back, hardware, etc.

You betcha!

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5 minutes ago, Studio Custom said:

Profile says Maryland. My buyer is in Texas.

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While I do not agree with the buyer's tactics, the fact is: he received a guitar in a condition worse than advertised.  

Would any of us say. "that's okay, this happens to 11 year old guitars during transit"?

I'd try to settle with him, it is in his possession.  These Facebook people are all pie in the sky and may never come through on a purchase.   Plus the guitar has to travel back to you, giving it another opportunity to get worse.   And you are now relying on this buyer to pack and ship the guitar correctly.  

Sometimes it is better to cut your loses. 

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The one thing I notice PayPal now doesn’t refund on returns (of at least that’s my interpretation of it). And you will be eating a couple legs of shipping an explorer shaped guitar on a return.   So maybe that should be the starting point of giving him some nuisance money. The one issue I had I gave the guy an adjustment and he went away happy.   That said.  Guitars with finish checks at the joints harder to sell than one without.   So maybe settle and you can always make a claim thru carrier.   Although I’m sure you’ll go thru the obligatory ringer for improper packing.  
 

 Btw. Did you use shipping thru reverb?     

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^^^ Valid points.  If the settlement is within the cost of the shipping, it's very worth considering.  If the buyer was a lowballer and trying to use this as an opportunity to achieve his lowball price, though, I would personally hate to see the tactic rewarded, and as it has been pointed out, we can expect to see more of it if it works.

But doesn't the buyer have any responsibility for correct packing and shipping now? 

And is this Etsy's influence?  Do they recognize that selling and  shipping musical gear is different from selling and shipping doilies?

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2 minutes ago, Studio Custom said:

They realize they paid $275,000,000 for Reverb and the customer is ALWAYS right.   Draw your own conclusions. 

Exactly. Ask yourself why pretty much every commerce site has policies skewed toward the buyer. As with everything else in this world, follow the money. Buyers = profit.

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This makes me reconsider some of the discussion here where sellers' shipping quotes were scoffed at.  Maybe they've been down this road already and are factoring in the cost of return shipping.  In the big world of retail, losses on returns and shipping are factored into the prices and policies.  If we little guys have to play by their rules, we should do the same.

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9 minutes ago, mrjamiam said:

If we little guys have to play by their rules, we should do the same.

Yeah, but then you'll have buyers bitching about the cost of shipping and wanting to grind you down on it. Ideally you bake the cost of shipping into the price of the item and call it "free" shipping, but again, they'll just grind you on the overall price. You list things for $0 on Reverb, eBay etc. and some people would ask you to pay them to take it off your hands.

The best option is to minimize your selling activity, ideally reducing it to zero. Internet deals are like lines of cocaine: you can do several without consequence, but your next one could be the one that sends your life careening into unnecessary chaos.

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13 minutes ago, MCChris said:

Yeah, but then you'll have buyers bitching about the cost of shipping and wanting to grind you down on it. Ideally you bake the cost of shipping into the price of the item and call it "free" shipping, but again, they'll just grind you on the overall price. You list things for $0 on Reverb, eBay etc. and some people would ask you to pay them to take it off your hands.

The best option is to minimize your selling activity, ideally reducing it to zero. Internet deals are like lines of cocaine: you can do several without consequence, but your next one could be the one that sends your life careening into unnecessary chaos.

The other thing not mentioned here yet, customers are still becoming acquainted with is sales tax.   These online retailers are tacking it on to the transaction, so while you may see a gross of $1,000, they see one of potentially up to $1,100. 

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8 minutes ago, MCChris said:

Yeah, but then you'll have buyers bitching about the cost of shipping and wanting to grind you down on it. Ideally you bake the cost of shipping into the price of the item and call it "free" shipping, but again, they'll just grind you on the overall price. You list things for $0 on Reverb, eBay etc. and some people would ask you to pay them to take it off your hands.

The best option is to minimize your selling activity, ideally reducing it to zero. Internet deals are like lines of cocaine: you can do several without consequence, but your next one could be the one that sends your life careening into unnecessary chaos.

Agreed - if I'm not in the used guitar sales business, I will always expect to be at a disadvantage when stepping into the business arena.  Best not to go there.  The good old days of eBay catch and release are over, as online commerce has matured and norms have been established.  Do it locally, or suffer the consequences.

But potential buyers grind you only if you let them.  If you're getting into the pool with the big kids, then look at what they do:  as you've already said, they bake the cost of shipping into the price to the buyer.  They don't haggle on price, but they might run a "sale" discount sometimes.  They buy low, because they know that letting their cost of goods sold rise will reduce or even eliminate their profit margin.  They set their expectations on their inventory, not on each individual sale.  I'm sure there are more that don't come to my mind right now, because I'm not in the used guitar sales business.

If I fail on any of those things, then I expect to pay for it in a reduced return as I complete the cash-to-cash cycle.

On the other side of things, though, is the buyer.  And it's a truism that the buyer is always right, but it's also true that the buyer always pays eventually.  If shipping costs go up, prices go up.  If returns are excessive, prices go up.  But you have to be in the business for a while to see this outcome.

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5 minutes ago, mrjamiam said:

But potential buyers grind you only if you let them.

And the ability to stick to your guns boils down to how desperate you are as a seller. As anyone who's been paying attention for the past 20+ years knows, guitar nerds are often desperate, due to being :
a.) Broke
b.) Needing to fund their next gear purchase
c.) Needing to pay for some catastrophic financial condition that they foolishly disclose in their listing and expect sympathy in the form of a full-price sale
d.) Any combination of the preceding

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2 minutes ago, MCChris said:

And the ability to stick to your guns boils down to how desperate you are as a seller. As anyone who's been paying attention for the past 20+ years knows, guitar nerds are often desperate, due to being :
a.) Broke
b.) Needing to fund their next gear purchase
c.) Needing to pay for some catastrophic financial condition that they foolishly disclose in their listing and expect sympathy in the form of a full-price sale
d.) Any combination of the preceding

Again, agreed.  My point is that anyone who steps into the business arena unprepared to act like a business should expect to be penalized financially.

There are all sorts of strategies and tactics on display in the online sales forums.  Not all of them are advisable, from one point of view or another.  One of the more sobering aspects of "adulting", as the kids apparently say, is that options that are not to our advantage are always available.  Just because I can see someone else doing something does not mean that it is how it is properly done.  What is it that they say, some people's purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others?

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9 minutes ago, MCChris said:

And the ability to stick to your guns boils down to how desperate you are as a seller. As anyone who's been paying attention for the past 20+ years knows, guitar nerds are often desperate, due to being :
a.) Broke
b.) Needing to fund their next gear purchase
c.) Needing to pay for some catastrophic financial condition that they foolishly disclose in their listing and expect sympathy in the form of a full-price sale
d.) Any combination of the preceding

It never ceases to amaze me how few people have savings.  IMO, if you do not have a 6 month safety net, a guitar should not be on your radar at all.  

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2 minutes ago, Studio Custom said:

It never ceases to amaze me how few people have savings.  IMO, if you do not have a 6 month safety net, a guitar should not be on your radar at all.  

Well, everyone's situation is different with hardships, etc., but yes, luxury items should not be in the mix. As guitar nerds go, these are the clowns who have a stable of Epiphones with a combined value of a Gibson...because they couldn't afford a Gibson.

3 minutes ago, mrjamiam said:

Again, agreed.  My point is that anyone who steps into the business arena unprepared to act like a business should expect to be penalized financially.

There are all sorts of strategies and tactics on display in the online sales forums.  Not all of them are advisable, from one point of view or another.  One of the more sobering aspects of "adulting", as the kids apparently say, is that options that are not to our advantage are always available.  Just because I can see someone else doing something does not mean that it is how it is properly done.  What is it that they say, some people's purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others?

People who deal on eBay and such want all the perceived benefits of a business (profit) and none of the other stuff (customer service, taxes and other costs of doing business), which were not as much of a factor in the Wild West days, which are now over.

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Well, the good news is I'm not broke, I have well over 6 months salary in savings, I'm not desperate to unload it, Reverb has at least conceded to cover the shipping costs in the return (mighty nice gesture but ultimately too little, too late IMHO) I have prospective buyers who are aware of the cracks and still want it (and at a price I'd likely have ended up with from offering the ass clown his discount) and best of all, I'm not in business to do this so, I don't feel ANY compulsion or obligation to cut my losses with him and can sleep better knowing that he will not get that guitar. Yeah, it's petty but there's principle involved here and life's too short. My .02 any way.

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