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Neck Pocket Fit On Bolt-Ons: How Much Does It Matter, And What To Do To Fix It?


crunchee

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I had mentioned on the 2019 'Scores And Fails' thread, that I had once returned a used MIK G&L Tribute ASAT Classic that I had bought from a dealer, partly because there were sizeable gaps between the neck and body on both sides of the neck pocket...in other words, the neck didn't fit snugly in the neck pocket, and there was much too much space there for my liking.  I'd always heard that neck pocket fit is important, and a snug neck fit matters. Over the years though, I've seen plenty of bolt-on neck guitars where there were gaps between the neck and body on the sides of the neck pocket, and that they were good candidates for failing the "business card" test, which is: if a business card can fit between the body and neck in the neck pocket, then the gap is too big.  Since it seems to be somewhat common (or at least it used to be, back in the days of slack quality control), and probably more so on cheaper/budget bolt-on necked guitars, two questions:  1.  Does it matter that much, and if so, by how much?; and 2.  What can be done about it, especially if the guitar is otherwise a good one?

There's several threads about it online, this one that I found on the Telecaster Guitar Forum seems to address it neatly:

https://www.tdpri.com/threads/neck-side-shims.896864/

It was mentioned on the Tele forum thread that sheets of wood veneer glued along the sides of the neck pocket might be a good fix.  Has anybody here used wood veneer for this kind of repair, and how did it work out for you?

BTW, I'm NOT referring to the practice of using shims to correct neck angle on a bolt-on guitar, like Fender once did...that's another, completely different, can of worms.

I was also reminded of this issue when I first saw this video about a year or two ago, fast forward to about 8:03 and check out the bass side of the guitar neck, where the neck meets the neck pocket/body join area.  Business card?  I think you could probably get a thin Resume in there!  :wacko:  A little later in the video the treble side of the neck/body join can also be seen, with possibly a similar gap there too:

 

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It’s one of the first things I look at with bolt on guitars! My thought is it should be tight enough to not fall out! With todays CNC’s, there should never be any gap near a business card. I have used a business card to adjust the truss rod on my and others guitars on the road tho. Make due with what you have kinda thing!

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Shims are not something Fender "once Did", they definitely still use them, even on Custom Shop guitars. Just look up the infamous "baseball card shim" incident.  To this day most Fender guitars STILL have the micro-tilt adjustment in their neck pocket.  Ernie Ball Music Man even has official shims that they use, which are color coded based on the thickness. Unfortunately until you put the neck on, you don't know just how much the or how little the wood is going to conform. Better to have too little of an angle than too much I guess. Most EBMM neck pockets are quite tight side to side. I needed to pretty much put a book on the back of one neck to use a hammer to tap it out so I could change the shim to a slightly thicker one.

Anyhow, from what I've been told, the fit of the end of the neck to the body quite important. Yamaha even designed a neck joint with extra screws that come in from an angle on the body side of the neck pocket, to pull the end of the neck tight into the body.

I don't know how important the sides of the pocket are however. As the neck and body respond to humidity a bit differently, too tight of a neck joint leads to the infamous cracks on that plague quite a number of bolt on guitars. A looser fitting neck may have been someone's idea of a "solution".

I have one guitar with a rosewood neck, and the rosewood seems FAR more sensitive to temperature and moisture than any maple neck I've had.

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30 minutes ago, Studio Custom said:

This is one of those folklore issues.  Have you seen Eddie’s Frankenstein guitar?   It’s a clusterfuck of tossed together junk that went on to be associated with a genre and a tone.   How tight is it’s neck pocket?  

^^^Truth^^^ you don't want the neck pocket to be tight as has been pointed out in a previous post because of wood expansion and finish cracking issues. Ideally the neck pocket is cut to a hair wider than the neck, but close enough that it will help to guide you as you bolt the neck on straight, however even with a tighter pocket you still need to fidget with the neck to get it perfectly straight and aligned properly. Having an oversized neckpocket is nothing more typically than an eyesore for some. A guitar with a sloppy oversized neck pocket will pretty much sound the same as a guitar with a tight neck pocket.

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I have not done this. But on my only bolt on, the Hamer T51, the fit of the neck pocket is Hamer superior. No need to do anything there.

What I have done though is a trick I learned some years ago. You loosen your strings a great deal, but they should still have good tension. Then unscrew the four bolts holding the neck just slightly. This could create slight little "pop", when the neck jumps back in it's pocket half a millimeter or more. It did so on my T51. Then tighten the screws again as much as you can. I did this and to my ears it improved the tone slightly. Could be imagination. But still worth doing as it is such an easy fix.

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I don't think it makes a big difference. My EBMM St Vincent has a little air (maybe paper-thin) on each side of the neck. Clearly the wood is not touching. But it resonates like crazy. My G&L has a super-tight neck pocket but isn't so vibe-y. I reckon the wood makes more difference, as long as the neck is screwed down tight. Now I guess if you had two guitars that are perfectly identical apart from that tolerance there might be a difference. So many factors in how a guitar sounds, I wouldn't dare try to break it down.

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EBMM uses CNC or computer driven mills on almost everything they make and have for years.   Their QC and spec tolerances are reportedly very high.  I don't know about current-day production but all the bolt-on neck pockets I I've seen from their guitars  from 5 years or so ago were perfect fits. 

 There are a handful of videos on YouTube that show factory tours in their manufacturing process.  It's quite fascinating to see how far they've come in mass production.   I'm sure other manufacturers who factory line-produce use the same equipment.

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The most impressive neck pocket on any bolt-on I’ve ever seen are Taylor acoustic guitars. If you own one pull the neck and look. These, are flat-out impressive! If you’ve never done that before it’s not as scary as it sounds. When you install the neck, just tighten the bolts very gently finger tight with the wrench Until you feel the bolt caps press against the wood. Then very gently give a single small bump of the wrench using finger pressure only, and you’re done.

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1 hour ago, Boomerang~Junkie said:

EBMM uses CNC or computer driven mills on almost everything they make and have for years.   Their QC and spec tolerances are reportedly very high.  I don't know about current-day production but all the bolt-on neck pockets I I've seen from their guitars  from 5 years or so ago were perfect fits. 

 There are a handful of videos on YouTube that show factory tours in their manufacturing process.  It's quite fascinating to see how far they've come in mass production.   I'm sure other manufacturers who factory line-produce use the same equipment.

Yeah, I was kinda surprised that the tolerances were not 100% crazy-perfect on the St. Vincent. It doesn't bother me in the least, but they make a pretty big deal about their CNC capabilities. The Vigier is built tighter in every way.

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7 hours ago, polara said:

Yeah, I was kinda surprised that the tolerances were not 100% crazy-perfect on the St. Vincent. It doesn't bother me in the least, but they make a pretty big deal about their CNC capabilities. The Vigier is built tighter in every way.

You could be right about their neck pockets not being a dead on.  I've never taken the neck off an EBMM so I don't know about that part.    All I know as the handful I've looked at about five years ago looked pretty tight to the "nicked" eye. 

Being "toy broke" keeps you from shopping or even looking at the new stuff!    ;)

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