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Is "Rock" US or British?


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I mean: Elvis.

But: The Beatles.


Heavy Metal was sort of invented by Steppenwolf (US), but the first metal bands were British (Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, plus Zep)

Blues is quintessentially American, but it seems like the Brits made it Rock (including the aforementioned Zep)

Van Halen and the hair metal scene is US. Jimi and SRV are American. Jeff Beck   Clapton and Beck are British.

But one of the longest-lasting rock bands, the Stones, are British.

 

I always thought of Rock as American.  And the US is still pretty much the destination for rock bands. 

The Beatles were a thing in the UK, of course, but they didn't become The thing until they played Sullivan in the US in 1964.

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Bill Haley and the Comets...1955.  Chuck Berry...

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To me, it depends on if you're lumping everything that can possibly be grouped into rock there.  But, if you're looking for the birthplace, then yeah, it's in the US and probably goes back to the blues and country western artists and ultimately Robert Johnson.  After that, the devil was in charge. ;)    Or, forget all that.  According to Little Richard, he invented it.    I think it exists everywhere, though. 

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21 minutes ago, cmatthes said:

Bill Haley and the Comets...1955.  Chuck Berry...

So, do you want to distinguish rock from rock 'n roll? Musically there would be a difference. According to Wikipedia, rock gets played straight wereas RnR is more like a shuffle, played between the beats

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_music.

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The first officially recognized Rock & Roll song is Rocket 88 by Ike Turner. (Technically Jackie Brenston gets the credit but we all know that ike wrote the tune.

 

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5 minutes ago, shankyboy said:

The first officially recognized Rock & Roll song is Rocket 88 by Ike Turner. (Technically Jackie Brenston gets the credit but we all know that ike wrote the tune.

 

And that was in 1951, for those keeping score.

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A lot of good stuff comes out of Scandinavia today.  

Rock is a lot like automobiles.  Europeans got the first production automobiles going.  Americans followed.  Once the Japanese got into the redesign of the internal combustion engine and automatic transmissions they made big refinements in the automobile industry.  A lot of Europeans and Americans love Japanese cars. 

The scholarly types have narrowed down the elements of rock and roll to show that it began in the USA. 

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5 hours ago, Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame said:

Heavy Metal was sort of invented by Steppenwolf (US)

Try again. Not metal.

5 hours ago, Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame said:

but the first metal bands were British, (Deep Purple, plus Zep)

Not metal, either.

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Well Metal has morphed too. I was around in the 60’s and 70’s and bands like Steppenwolf, Blue Cheer, Deep Purple were referred on occasion as metal but more often as hard or heavy rock. 

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On 5/2/2020 at 7:48 PM, Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame said:

I mean: Elvis.

But: The Beatles.


Heavy Metal was sort of invented by Steppenwolf (US), but the first metal bands were British (Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, plus Zep)

Blues is quintessentially American, but it seems like the Brits made it Rock (including the aforementioned Zep)

Van Halen and the hair metal scene is US. Jimi and SRV are American. Jeff Beck   Clapton and Beck are British.

But one of the longest-lasting rock bands, the Stones, are British.

 

I always thought of Rock as American.  And the US is still pretty much the destination for rock bands. 

The Beatles were a thing in the UK, of course, but they didn't become The thing until they played Sullivan in the US in 1964.

Jimi hendrix played in England and got success from there :) but no, Rock is from Germany....

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On 5/3/2020 at 10:36 AM, JochenP said:

"Rock" is German of course! Its the word for womens dress.  ..... 🙂

This is what I mean...Spider murphy gang....and In Munchen steht ein hofbrauhaus...wo die Kinder mussen raus.....Daniel and Dirk all agree :)

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*Metal* is British —Black Sabbath and Judas Priest are its pioneers... though Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple and even Queen also contributed to the formula.

*Rock* has however a bigger scope. Hard to say. What would be the first rock song ever? 

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7 minutes ago, zorrow said:

*Metal* is British —Black Sabbath and Judas Priest are its pioneers... though Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple and even Queen also contributed to the formula.

*Rock* has however a bigger scope. Hard to say. What would be the first rock song ever? 

@shankyboy mentioned it above.  "Rocket 88" is widely regarded as the first rock song - definitely U.S.

 

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45 minutes ago, fractal said:

@shankyboy mentioned it above.  "Rocket 88" is widely regarded as the first rock song - definitely U.S.

 

Yes, but that’s Rock & ROLL, and I really wonder when did Rock drop the Roll part. Or... is it as they say, that everything is ultimately rock & roll? 

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You have to qualify what Rock 'n' Roll is to say when it happened, though RnR is most certainly American.  I'd argue it's just boogie woogie repackaged with a marketing term and marketed toward white, suburban teenagers.  The main elements of rock - the blues heritage, a back beat, and even distorted, electric guitar - you can find Bob Wills doing in the mid 40s - hell, he has twin, lead guitar in some stuff.  Seriously, how is that far off from Rocket 88?  Is it because a fiddle comes in?  If I didn't know what year it was from, I would assume it was early rock in the 50s.

I don't think Bob Wills invented it either.  That basic vibe had been around since blues was going uptempo and electrified, and I'd argue Rock 'n' Roll is equal parts a marketing term and a music, at least in the beginning.  Kinda like grunge back in the early 90s. 

Whatever rock 'n' roll was, it was nearly dead by 1964 in America.  The Beatles saved it.  I'm aware of tortured logic like this link below, but I think it's trying to contrarian for its own sake.  Motown and Stax (and I fucking LOVE Stax) weren't rock 'n' roll, and had the Beach Boys never made Pet Sounds they'd just be another of many California Surf rock bands.  I'm sure I just pissed off any Beach Boys fans here, but in my opinion, "Little Deuce Coupe" and "Be True to Your School" is just gentrified, suburban pop that took the already somewhat neutered version of RnR Chuck Berry had evolved from folks like Little Richard (and Chuck is on record saying he's a country music guy who started playing rock because he saw a niche for taking what folks like Little Richard were doing and making it a little more safe to sling to white suburban kids - opening interview he gives in the Time Life History of Rock 'n' Roll series).  I mean, Berry has a writing credit on "Surfin' U.S.A."

https://ultimateclassicrock.com/did-the-beatles-save-rock-n-roll/

I'm not sure anyone down here really gave a damn about being true to your school and California girls in 1963 in the same way that people on the west coast did, but, if my west-coast mother and Mississippi-father are a good gauge, even people who didn't give a damn about the Beach Boys gave a damn about The Beatles for the most part.  Throw the Stones in there too, and you pretty much mop up everyone who would love Rock music in the mid to late 60s. 

However, I think to say America or the UK made "rock" is to over simplify.  It wouldn't exist at all if it weren't for the blues, so there's that.  And while America is home of the blues, mainstream America didn't give a shit about in the way they would until the blues artists we were taking for granted went to the UK to play for a bunch of teenagers who had developed a serious blues culture around bootleg albums.  Then a few years later, those UK kids came over here and delivered a new take on an old thing.   At what point does rock 'n' roll happen?  Who knows for sure?  When did it become rock?  Who knows that as well?  What I do believe is that the Rock of the late 60s that birthed all these subgenres would not have happened without the ongoing dialog between the USA and the UK.  There's been a feedback loop there that has existed since the 50s that I think is far more important than the actual creation moment of rock. 

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22 hours ago, zorrow said:

Yes, but that’s Rock & ROLL, and I really wonder when did Rock drop the Roll part. Or... is it as they say, that everything is ultimately rock & roll? 

I could certainly agree that "Rock" was born from the Brits taking American Blues and revving it up. I've seen many references pointing to Peter Green as the catalyst for Metal. 

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I’d just like to point out that Steppenwolf, regardless the consensus on genre, was mostly Canadian, though formed in the US.  :) 

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