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Les Paul Std.vs. ESP E-II Eclipse FT?


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I've been looking at both these guitars, the LP Standard ('60's neck profile) in 'Unburst' and the 'Full Thickness' version of the E-II Eclipse, not the thinner-bodied version.  What I'm maybe unsure about is the ESP 'Thin U'  neck profile as I've not seen one.  Although I've owned 2 different Gibson LP models previously, it was a long, long tme ago now and I think I'll prefer the taller frets on the ESP; also I've read that the MIJ ESPs rival or exceed modern-day Gibson build quality, (the price of the 2 guitars are just about the same in the UK) also the ESP's pickups are somewhat hotter, being EMG '57TW'  on the bridge position and the '66TW' at the neck.  Anyone else owned this ESP model? did you like it/keep it?  It's not going to be possible for to drive as far as the guitar shop so I have to mail order which is somewhat of a PITA but c'est la vie and all that.

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Owning and working on my share of both for a long, long time now ... the ESP Japan production line's METICULOUS attention to detail, from wood selection to finish and binding to fretwork to nut cuts, makes Gibson's standard production line look like an absolute joke. My shop is an ESP/LTD authorized service and warranty center and I have yet to have a MIJ ESP come in for any flaw or issue whatsoever, not even a phone inquiry from an owner relaying any displeasure with anything. Thinking back now, I can't recall seeing a factory flaw or issue on a MIJ ESP in the 30+ years I've been around them.

That being said, if you want a Les Paul, you want a Les Paul, but the better guitar consistently is going to be the ESP. If I'm buying blind, it's the E-II, no question or hesitation. As for the EMGs, that's a case by case. I'd probably swap them for Duncans, in my case a Custom 5 and a four-conductor '59, but that's just me.

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Hi Jeff and thanks for your comments, much appreciated.  I'd been looking at LPs and then seen the Eclipse and the ESP brand which I'd known next to nothing about except for their very expensive USA custom shop models that George Lynch played/plays. The few web articles I've recently read about the MIJ Eclipses were very much along the lines of what you're saying.  Given both guitars have mahogany bodies and mahogany set necks, I'm guessing I could change out the Eclipse's pickups if I thought it necessary. Overall the Eclipse appears to be a better-spec'd instrument, e.g. taller frets, locking tuners, better upper neck access and superior quality control.  I'd maybe have been slightly sniffy about owning a MIJ guitar once but old friends were very happy with their various Ibanez models, (though I never liked their necks when I tried them out, especially the Jem and an RG550 I got to try out, rather too wide for my smallish hands)  I've noticed the particular music shop whose site I've looking at has just increased the price on the Les Paul by another £100 which is helping to make this an easier choice I think.

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3 hours ago, Jeff R said:

Owning and working on my share of both for a long, long time now ... the ESP Japan production line's METICULOUS attention to detail, from wood selection to finish and binding to fretwork to nut cuts, makes Gibson's standard production line look like an absolute joke. My shop is an ESP/LTD authorized service and warranty center and I have yet to have a MIJ ESP come in for any flaw or issue whatsoever, not even a phone inquiry from an owner relaying any displeasure with anything. Thinking back now, I can't recall seeing a factory flaw or issue on a MIJ ESP in the 30+ years I've been around them.

That being said, if you want a Les Paul, you want a Les Paul, but the better guitar consistently is going to be the ESP. If I'm buying blind, it's the E-II, no question or hesitation. As for the EMGs, that's a case by case. I'd probably swap them for Duncans, in my case a Custom 5 and a four-conductor '59, but that's just me.

I will never have the depth of knowledge you possess and would certainly not take up the ridiculous argument for Gibson plant guitars of days past, but have you tried one of the new Les Pauls (since Henry J got the axe)?  Might be worth a look.  🧐

ETA for clarity: I have one - 2019 50's Standard.  Other than those caused by my clumsiness, I can't find a single issue.  Fit, finish, playability, tone - it's everything I'd hoped a Les Paul would be and none of the issues I've read about since I was a kid.

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The Alex Skolnick signature eclipse in lemon burst caught my eye. I mean, not $6,500 caught my eye. For the price point the E-II eclipses look like fantastic guitars. I’ve been wanting a Les Paul for a while but never pulled the trigger because I couldn’t justify the cost for the brand name. Especially with their QC, I’d put my faith in the Japanese ESP’s over a Gibson USA every day of the week. I just wish the E-II eclipses were available in some more traditional finishes. But, I guess that’s not the market they’re going after...

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I have had several post-reorg Gibson pieces pass through and the higher end pieces overall are definitely better, much better, than they used to be piece to piece. I'm just doing setups and upgrades for the most part, not recutting nuts, doing fretwork, etc. on the new ones. I had a 60th Anniv LP pass through not too long ago that was among the best LPs I've ever played in my life, including real McCarty-era pieces at vintage shows. I've told clients if you are one of the types who prefers new guitars and doesn't care for used, and you want a new Gibson, now appears to be the time to do it. Faded, Tributes, Studios, however, not so much wow ... they are still not sweating the small stuff that ESP has sweated for decades, particularly in the case of wood selection, wood prep, finishing issues. AKA, things that can eat (expensively) time on an assembly line. That's why I said if you want a LP,  get a LP,  but I still think the MIJ ESP production output is better, and consistently better.

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If you are considering an ESP Les Paul, take a look at Navigator guitars. It is a brand owned by ESP and their LesPaul copies easily rivals the Gibson Custom shop stuff. Legendary LP copies that command high prices on the used market. I would choose a Navigator LP over a ESP one any day.

Navigator is the high end brand of ESP guitars.

http://www.guitarsjapan.com/ESPinfopage.html

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Thanks for the info, it's certanly interesting to learn some more about the ESP brand but the higher-end models are a long way above my price range, as are Gibson's Custom Shop models unless my lottery numbers were to come up :O( . 

I was listening to a demo of a thinner-bodied E-II Eclipse and a hard-tailed E-II Horizon last night that are both fitted with the same EMG '57TW' & '66 TW' PUs on them which I liked the sound of, whereas I'd not really be interested in the the other more common EMG 81/85 combination that has been on some ESP models & other brands of guitars.   I think I'm going to see if I can get someone to drive me to the music shop; the change of scenery would be quite welcome

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On 7/21/2020 at 10:36 AM, Travis said:

The Alex Skolnick signature eclipse in lemon burst caught my eye. I mean, not $6,500 caught my eye. 

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What a joke. I guess Skolnick didn't think Heritage was a happening brand?

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Just now, RobB said:

What a joke. I guess Skolnick didn't think Heritage was a happening brand?

Maybe he bought one from Brett and that soured him from the brand...

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