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Wood nerd stuff... mahogany, Spanish cedar, sapele, limba...


polara

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https://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/mahogany-mixups-the-lowdown/

It's kind of interesting. What we call  a wood is often just a name, unrelated to its family or order or even its qualities. Like korina is called limba and sometimes is said to be a kind of mahogany, but it's Terminalia superba, and not related. Sapele is called African mahogany too, and is unrelated and to me looks pretty darned different.

https://www.commercialforestproducts.com/white-limba-korina/

Anyway, it's a real rabbit hole if you start going through this site.

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2 hours ago, polara said:

Like korina is called limba and sometimes is said to be a kind of mahogany, but it's Terminalia superba, and not related.

I've read korina is just a name Gibson made up to give the impression they were using something new and unique.

Another among the common woods with odd names used for guitars is Spanish Cedar, which is neither Spanish nor cedar.

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1 hour ago, cynic said:

I've read korina is just a name Gibson made up to give the impression they were using something new and unique.

Another among the common woods with odd names used for guitars is Spanish Cedar, which is neither Spanish nor cedar.

Per Wikipedia:

Cedrela odorata is the most commercially important and widely distributed species in the genus Cedrela. Known as Spanish cedar in English commerce, the aromatic wood is in high demand in the American tropics because it is naturally termite- and rot-resistant. An attractive, moderately lightweight wood (specific gravity 0.4), its primary use is in household articles used to store clothing. Cedro heartwood contains an aromatic and insect-repelling resin that is the source of its popular name, Spanish-cedar (it resembles the aroma of the unrelated true cedars (Cedrus spp.) Cedro works easily and makes excellent plywood and veneer and would be more widely used if it could be successfully plantation grown. This plant is often used for honey production (beekeeping) and humidor construction. It is occasionally used for tops or veneers on some kinds of electric guitars. The wood is the traditional choice for making the neck of flamenco and classical guitars.[5]

 

My Godin Core CT P90 uses Spanish Cedar as the main body material.  Quite lightweight and very resonant.  A good alternative and a relative of mahogany.

 

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I always thought “korina” was the name of the finish that Gibson put on the limba. 
 

and the name I gave my wood is not at all related to what it actually is...

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32 minutes ago, Travis said:

I always thought “korina” was the name of the finish that Gibson put on the limba. 
 

and the name I gave my wood is not at all related to what it actually is...

Balsa?

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2 minutes ago, django49 said:

Balsa?

I’d like it to resemble the mighty oak. At times it has characteristics of a redwood. The majority of the day it’s more of a weeping willow...

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53 minutes ago, Travis said:

I’d like it to resemble the mighty oak. At times it has characteristics of a redwood. The majority of the day it’s more of a weeping willow...

There ya go. Redwood.....aka Giant Sequoia. 😏

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15 minutes ago, django49 said:

There ya go. Redwood.....aka Giant Sequoia. 😏

It only happens 3-4 days per month, but when it does I feel like I got something special...

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Ruokangas Guitars uses Spanish Cedar:

https://ruokangas.com/specifications/spanish-cedar/

...and so did (or maybe does, since they've started making guitars again) Robin Guitars.  IIRC, they called it "Fakimba".  I think this has been mentioned here on the HFC before, I believe by Kiz and a few others.

I'm not a big fan of Spanish Cedar as it's about as soft as Alder (about 600 for Spanish Cedar vs. 590 for Alder on the Janka hardness scale, according to the Wood Database), which means it'll dent and ding somewhat easily.  I do like Sapele due to it's 'ribbon' grain pattern when it's quartersawn (I think...for some weird reason, whenever someone mentions and shows photos of Sapele, it always seems to have a ribbon-pattern grain), it's nearly as hard as Hard Maple (about 1410 Janka vs 1450 Janka for Hard Maple, White Ash in comparison is about 1320 Janka), and currently it seems to be fairly plentiful.  My Godin Icon Type 2 uses Sapele for the top, though Godin usually just calls it 'mahogany'.  I like it, it's a good-looking hardwood, 'mahogany' or not, and it sounds good to my ears.  Acoustic guitar makers (Martin and Taylor included) often use Sapele for the back and sides of their lower-to-mid tier acoustics, and it seems to me like there's a lot of striped-grain 'mahogany' (Sapele? Utile?  Epiphone isn't specifying what the exact wood they use is) being used on recent Epiphone electric solidbodies.

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When I did my brief stint at Guild we conducted an experiment to determine the best “alternate” mahogany.

We built 1/2 dozen dreadnaughts (D40s?) out of alternate woods. I can’t remember the species we used.  I do remember we had to ID the wood on the serial number label and then cover it up so no one could see it. Those guitars were the subject of various tone tests, etc.  The guitar built from Sapele sounded better than the others.

The mahogany used at Hamer definitely changed between Arlington Heights and New Hartford.  I preferred the old stuff and was very vocal about it.  I remember rejecting about 90% of a New Hartford shipment.  Frank was concerned I was being unreasonable and came out to the shop to check out the wood.  Despite being an office guy, Frank knew wood and could pick a maple top with the best of them.  He saw why I rejected the “mahogany” and ordered a supply from the old vendor and had it shipped to Connecticut.  At one point in time Jol would just send Dave and I out to the supplier (Rex Lumber) to select the boards we wanted because they were sick of sending truckloads of stuff that we rejected.  Most stuff was rejected based on weight, grain pattern or worm holes.  Some was dried improperly.  Dave and I had a motto.......”the stuff from Rex always checks” because of the cracking at the ends of the boards.  

Dave had a harder time with it as the neck line was really affected by the switch in lumber.  We were both in the rough mill so we started the process....he did necks and I did bodies.  The “stressed neck system” was easier to build when you could work with an entire length of board.  You cut successive pieces, flip to alternate grain and glue up the same board with opposing grain patterns.  When we moved to New Hartford they didn’t have room for the big ass cut off saw we used in Arlington to saw the rough lumber.  They switched to pre dimensioned lumber.  This meant Dave now had to sort and match the wood.  It took a lot longer.  We ended up getting the saw out of storage and finding room for it so we could switch back to the old way.

Don’t misinterpret this to mean the New Hartford guitars are somehow built with inferior materials....what ended up making it through was equal or better than anything we produced prior -it just took a helluva lot more work and produced more waste.  I remember our purchasing guy (who understandingly was not my biggest fan) coming out to the shop and saying Rex was able to sell 100% of the wood I rejected to Gibson.  My one word response was “exactly”.    I don’t think he understood what I was saying.  Being an Ovation guy I can hardly blame him.   I’m sure those Gibsons built with that wood were nice guitars they just needed to be multi piece bodies which was mostly a no no at Hamer.  We lost our economies of scale with the move to New Hartford.  We maintained an equal or better quality level but the price went up to cover the cost. 

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