Disturber Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 Posted by Greg Platzer on FB yesterday. " Jol Dantzig OK, here's the condensed version. Gibson pisses off Guitar Center and they have a divorce. Guitar center says,"We'll show you!" Hamer marketing guys "We can make you Hamer Les Pauls." Hamer shows them the Monaco Elite... "No dice guys, we want it exactly like a Les Paul... then you get BIG order." Marketing demands a Les Paul copy from Hamer, down to the logo orientation, but agrees to headstock shape. Reluctantly, Hamer builds this extremely nice guitar. Meanwhile while marketing guys are slapping each other on the back and doing the happy dance, Gibson and Guitar Center make up. End of story. That sure is a rare guitar with a crazy story. It went home with someone from Kaman marketing—until now. So, now I expect everyone to do their job and start speculating on if this might have "saved" Hamer, or if it was a stupid idea. DISCUSS! " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirrorimij Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 It’s real. I made the body. It belonged to Frank Rindone for a long time. IIRC it does not sound like a Les Paul. It sounds like a Hamer. I speculated it was the neck construction as everything else was dead nuts. Fast forward a little and the Triple Threat came out. The Monaco was not shown to GC as part of the deal. They sent us a 10k LP to copy. I remember nicking the edge of the island in the control cavity as I was routing it- it was due to the length of the cutter and the angle of the fixture. I was freaking out as it was one of the last steps, the body had a killer top and there was a lot of labor invested in it. I showed it to Jol. We went over and looked at the LP the sent us to copy. Underneath the paint in the control cavity was the EXACT same nick in the wood. Jol looked at me and said “since it’s a copy I don’t think it’s a mistake- we copied what they did” and we shipped it. I NEVER noticed that doesn’t say USA on it anywhere. Lol. I’ll give you $350. Seriously is it for sale? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biz Prof Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 The back story on this guitar is equal parts fascinating and frustrating. Now that I think about it, I'm surprised that Rick Nielsen didn't end up owning it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kizanski Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 2 hours ago, mirrorimij said: Seriously is it for sale? Well, it looks like it's in Lemoine, given the trademarked 18 wheeler tail gate & basement door photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCChris Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 21 minutes ago, kizanski said: Well, it looks like it's in Lemoine, given the trademarked 18 wheeler tail gate & basement door photos. All that's missing is one of the local beauty queens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGale Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 Dibs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
django49 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 FWIW, my goldtop Elite with P90s (not Duncans) is a better guitar than the original 1956 I USED to have. (I was the second owner and only had it for 19 years). I have no intent to let it go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
django49 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 19 minutes ago, MCChris said: All that's missing is one of the local beauty queens. I think a little bit of her is still on the first guitar Greg sold me...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew816 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 Love it! Cool back stories here too... So doesn't sound like a Les Paul? Maybe the tendon joint? Three piece necks were around for quite some time. No Hide Glue maybe? 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirrorimij Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 3 piece neck (5 with headstock wings)and incorrect headstock pitch compared to Les Paul. Both corrected on Triple Threat. but WTF do I know. My favorite Les Paul sound comes from one particular maple neck, pancake body, Norlin! LP 3 piece neck includes the headstock wings. A stressed neck is 5 pieces if you count those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbonesullivan Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 Just now, mirrorimij said: 3 piece neck and incorrect headstock pitch compared to Les Paul. Both corrected on Triple Threat. but WTF do I know. My favorite Les Paul sound comes from one particular maple neck, pancake body, Norlin! I would wager that is true for a LOT of people, even if they aren't aware of it. Just how so many people are completely ignorant about the fullerplast sealer used on their hallowed vintage Fenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtrdaddy Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 12 minutes ago, Drew816 said: Maybe the tendon joint? Perhaps it is sprained, or inflamed a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kizanski Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 17 minutes ago, gtrdaddy said: Perhaps it is sprained, or inflamed a bit. lol asshole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamerhead Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 FUUUUUUUUUUdge. I always thought a Les Paul built by Hamer would be the Holy Grail guitar, at least for me. Slightly bummed about the headstock angle, but it's not like I have enough kidneys to sell, anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Haynie Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 56 minutes ago, mirrorimij said: My favorite Les Paul sound comes from one particular maple neck, pancake body, Norlin! A friend had one of those magic Les Pauls that had all the wrong features-- maple neck, pancake body, etc. Another friend swore by '79 Les Paul Customs, and they were in that Norlin era. Sometimes your ears tell a truer story than a spec sheet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamerhead Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 4 hours ago, mirrorimij said: ... in the control cavity was the EXACT same nick in the wood..... It's called a 'painstakingly accurate re-creation'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirrorimij Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 Chris........anything to add? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtrdaddy Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 To the question Jol presented, "would this have saved Hamer?", I think no, it wouldn't have. While Hamer made a top shelf instrument, several things come to mind that would have made this a doomed relationship. I don't think Hamer's production numbers at the time would've satisfied GC. Even if Hamer expanded production, it more than likely would've presented numerous problems for Hamer including QC. I also believe that it wouldn't have served the Hamer dealer base well either, as more than likely, any production for them would've been at least temporarily been put on a back shelf. This more than likely would've created a lasting rift between Hamer and its existing dealers. Questions also come to mind, would that Hamer "Lester" have been exclusive to GC, would other Hamer models be exclusive to independent Hamer dealers? More potentially divisive issues to consider. So many more as well. Ah... payment terms! So, would GC have received preferential invoicing terms that the independent dealers weren't offered? My guess is yes. This is how GC operated with everyone. Would this piss off dealers paying net30 DOI? Would GC get discounts off of their invoices for paying early on their already (for conversation's sake) extended terms? So, so many gremlins in this arrangement. Speaking of payment, the tail wagging the dog idiom was never more aptly applied than when discussing GC and its suppliers. Ask Mesa Boogie about it. Nothing like a bully like GC clobbering a supplier by dragging its feet on past due payments and pretending they're doing the vendor a favor by buying their product for their stores. No, GC and Hamer would never have worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kizanski Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 16 minutes ago, gtrdaddy said: To the question Jol presented, "would this have saved Hamer?", I think no, it wouldn't have. While Hamer made a top shelf instrument, several things come to mind that would have made this a doomed relationship. I don't think Hamer's production numbers at the time would've satisfied GC. Even if Hamer expanded production, it more than likely would've presented numerous problems for Hamer including QC. I also believe that it wouldn't have served the Hamer dealer base well either, as more than likely, any production for them would've been at least temporarily been put on a back shelf. This more than likely would've created a lasting rift between Hamer and its existing dealers. Questions also come to mind, would that Hamer "Lester" have been exclusive to GC, would other Hamer models be exclusive to independent Hamer dealers? More potentially divisive issues to consider. So many more as well. Ah... payment terms! So, would GC have received preferential invoicing terms that the independent dealers weren't offered? My guess is yes. This is how GC operated with everyone. Would this piss off dealers paying net30 DOI? Would GC get discounts off of their invoices for paying early on their already (for conversation's sake) extended terms? So, so many gremlins in this arrangement. Speaking of payment, the tail wagging the dog idiom was never more aptly applied than when discussing GC and its suppliers. Ask Mesa Boogie about it. Nothing like a bully like GC clobbering a supplier by dragging its feet on past due payments and pretending they're doing the vendor a favor by buying their product for their stores. No, GC and Hamer would never have worked. You drilled way deeper into this discussion than was needed. The answer is no, it wouldn't have helped as long as Jol was involved. He's the one that ruined Hamer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmatthes Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 1 hour ago, mirrorimij said: Chris........anything to add? Bob - I think you covered everything that I've known about and then some. I guess Frank got talked out of keeping that one and is making do with his T-51! I still have the one-piece Korina test body from that build - it would have been cool to have seen that LP-style guitar in Korina, for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtrdaddy Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 6 minutes ago, kizanski said: You drilled way deeper into this discussion than was needed. It's what I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtrdaddy Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 1 minute ago, cmatthes said: I still have the one-piece Korina test body Dibs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kizanski Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 1 minute ago, cmatthes said: I still have the one-piece Korina test body from that build - it would have been cool to have seen that LP-style guitar in Korina, for sure. Perhaps someone can build a guitar with it and sell it on Reverb as built by an "employee" ( ..........of Walmart). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucSulla Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Steve Haynie said: A friend had one of those magic Les Pauls that had all the wrong features-- maple neck, pancake body, etc. Another friend swore by '79 Les Paul Customs, and they were in that Norlin era. Sometimes your ears tell a truer story than a spec sheet. Yep. As I've said before here, my ride or die is a 78 LPC. I bought it in 99, so I guess at this point, I've owned it for over half its existence. This may sound insane, but Kirk Hammett could walk in here and offer to trade me Greeny for it, and I couldn't do it. It and a 1911 my father gave me when I moved away to college are probably the only two things I own that I just can't see ever parting with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beezerboy Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 so.... where is it now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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