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The Golden Age of Guitar Amps


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I was reading a thread where a couple of people were arguing Splawn vs Friedman.  Regardless of the minutia, like many companies, they all basically begin with a hotrod Marshall tone - JMP, JCM 800, or both.  There are companies that do the same with Vox and Fender as well.   Hell, I guess in a way almost everything is descended from a Fender in one way or another.  That really isn't the point...

So most of our favorite amps sound of yesteryear we mostly know after the were mic'd up, run through tasty vintage (at the time just the stuff they used) mic pres, and further sweetened with all kinds of great analog outboard gear.  They were cut to tape, which adds its own thing, and so on.  For example, most people around the time will say that the sound you hear on Van Halen I is not the sound in the room exactly.   It's not artificial per se, but you are getting a very gussied up version of that amp recorded by some cats who really knew how to make things sound great.   So it goes for recording from the late 60s really through the late 90s before digital made it obvious that you didn't have to try as hard and the loudness wars made dynamics a bad word.  

But let's say there were out of the box Marshalls that sounded like Eddie's JMP (or any other classic amp tone).  It certainly wasn't all of them or probably even most of them.  It's pretty well documented how much parts varied from year to year, sometimes even with in a year.  So while maybe you could find some real magic out there, just buying a brand name was no guarantee.  That's not news to anyone actually familiar with vintage gear.

I think about all the builders now - Splawn, Friedman, Soldano, Bogner, Mesa (at least through the Gibson purchase), 3 Monkeys, and on and on and on.  There are consistently great amps all over the place these days.  Also, I think I bought my Small Box new for $2500 or so if memory serves.   That was for a made in America, handwired, kick ass amp.  In 2000, I bought a JCM 2000 TSL 60 Combo for I think $1200 new if memory serves.   Sure, the Friedman was twice as much, but adjusted for inflation, the Marshall would have been $1,750 today.  The Friedman is about 30% more, but a Small Box is a helluvalot more than 30% of amp than a TSL 60.  A Blackstar HT Stage 60 Combo is actually only $1100 right now, and I'd bet it's at least as good as a TSL 60.  Granted that a TSL 60 was hardly a classic amp, but the point stands I think.  Great amps don't cost much more than great amps cost 20 or 30 years ago, and there are tons of good amps that, when you think about it, cost less.  

Plus there's just so much more of everything.  If I like 3 Monkeys, I just buy one. Or if I like Soldano, I just buy one.  I've no reason to think I need to sort through a bunch of them to find one with the right character. 

Basically,  I really believe that, despite nostalgia, while maybe guitar playing isn't quite as popular as it once was, as far as the actual gear available by which to create a live sound, there has never been a better era than the one we're currently in.  

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I agree! Same could be said for guitars, which IMO are more consistent than vintage and in most ways just as good.Sure, there are some examples that set the standard, and will, always be. Having said that the consistent reproducibility of the really good quality stuff today is amazing! Guitars and Amps

arniez

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Absolutely. We are living in that Golden Age! I believe that about guitars too. I think it certainly applies for all or many of the reasons listed above. Paul Reed Smith makes guitars in higher quantities, and more consistently and of a higher quality than most of ANYTHING that was made in the decades leading up to the new millennium. With inexpensive import options, cost is no longer an obstacle for someone who wants to dip their feet and not spend a large amount. 

Good times Sir. Good times indeed.

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I guess I have a slightly different holy grail tone as my preference, but I totally agree on the great quality AND variety of what is available to us. Which has lead to "issues" with more than one of us in terms of acquiring MORE STUFF.

I have had quite a few Mesa amps and think highly of them. Same goes for anything that comes from the hands of Michael Swart. Or Andy Fuchs.

I think back to the 60s when the choice If you wanted a BIG amp kinda came down to a Fender Dual Showman or a Sunn stack. IIRC, either one, in the then fashion with 2 x 15" JBL speakers, came to right at $1k. (I made do with a $120 amp from Wards via Supro....Who in Hell had $1000?). Then came Marshall, of course. And Mesa, the mods and on and on. It was a great trip, but getting better all the time.

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Sunset Sound where VH1 was recorded  has posted a lot of cool videos outlining how the album was recorded. I got to hear Eruption completely dry through a room mic...it still sounded eerily close to the final product.

But yeah, this is indeed the Golden Age of Guitar Gear. All that’s missing is Hamer ....

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2 hours ago, Jakeboy said:

Sunset Sound where VH1 was recorded  has posted a lot of cool videos outlining how the album was recorded. I got to hear Eruption completely dry through a room mic...it still sounded eerily close to the final product.

But yeah, this is indeed the Golden Age of Guitar Gear. All that’s missing is Hamer ....

Those are great!

The video Pete Thorn did with Dave Friedman is the most in depth thing I've seen about recreating it outside of Sunset Sound if you haven't seen it.  Dave worked on Eddie's gear a lot, and they were down to talking EQ pot values.  The results are pretty impressive though. 
 

 

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19 hours ago, Jakeboy said:

 

All that’s missing is Hamer ....

We got better now!

 

I have 2 old Maggies, but they wont get repaired for some time. They soynd great when, working. My Juke kicks em both because it has all the good, most of the great and none of the problems.

Same with my Vintage 47, and my lil dawg brown deluxe. 

Great design matched with small batch builds!

 

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2 hours ago, 0054 said:

We got better now!

 

I have 2 old Maggies, but they wont get repaired for some time. They soynd great when, working. My Juke kicks em both because it has all the good, most of the great and none of the problems.

Same with my Vintage 47, and my lil dawg brown deluxe. 

Great design matched with small batch builds!

 

You are so correct. With Shishkov, we do have better!

I can vouch for that Lil Dawg ChocoDawg...yes I can. 😎🎸

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  • 3 weeks later...

Revisiting this earlier topic...I don't think anybody mentioned the Marshall 18 watt amps here, and how interest in these and other lower-wattage amps kinda sprung from the 18Watt.com website.  Those Marshall combos got little attention when they came out in the mid 60's, but in the last 20 years or so interest has really grown.  Right now, 18 watt Marshall semi-clones are my main amps, and I like 'em so much since I got my first one several years back, that I haven't felt the need to go back to a 'bigger' amp.  Ever.  B)

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On 3/26/2021 at 12:39 AM, LucSulla said:

Those are great!

The video Pete Thorn did with Dave Friedman is the most in depth thing I've seen about recreating it outside of Sunset Sound if you haven't seen it.  Dave worked on Eddie's gear a lot, and they were down to talking EQ pot values.  The results are pretty impressive though. 
 

 

Loved that video by PT. Of course, it helps to have Pete Thorn's chops.

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On 3/25/2021 at 11:39 PM, LucSulla said:

Those are great!

The video Pete Thorn did with Dave Friedman is the most in depth thing I've seen about recreating it outside of Sunset Sound if you haven't seen it.  Dave worked on Eddie's gear a lot, and they were down to talking EQ pot values.  The results are pretty impressive though. 
 

 

 

4 hours ago, Biz Prof said:

Loved that video by PT. Of course, it helps to have Pete Thorn's chops.

Of course I watched that video as soon as it came out. Dave is super knowledgeable and Pete seems like such a nice guy and way cool to boot. Always a treat to hear them reminisce and tell their stories. 

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7 hours ago, crunchee said:

Revisiting this earlier topic...I don't think anybody mentioned the Marshall 18 watt amps here, and how interest in these and other lower-wattage amps kinda sprung from the 18Watt.com website.  Those Marshall combos got little attention when they came out in the mid 60's, but in the last 20 years or so interest has really grown.  Right now, 18 watt Marshall semi-clones are my main amps, and I like 'em so much since I got my first one several years back, that I haven't felt the need to go back to a 'bigger' amp.  Ever.  B)

I had a Lil Dawg Pug 18 watter...clone of a 1974 Normal Channel. I don’t have many gear regrets, but I do regret selling that one. The current owner refers to it as a “flamethrower”. Indeed. I might order another one.

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2 hours ago, Jakeboy said:

I had a Lil Dawg Pug 18 watter...clone of a 1974 Normal Channel. I don’t have many gear regrets, but I do regret selling that one. The current owner refers to it as a “flamethrower”. Indeed. I might order another one.

Well, let me ponder that one. It is a great little amp and I love it. OTOH, I am just not playing much these days, so it is not getting exercise lately. I hate the idea of shipping amps, but maybe should not be so worried. I may even still have the box and packing material that arrived with it.......I guess I should get it out and see if I can bring myself to part with it. 😏

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Most, if not all, came from the Military machine. What was left over from War was hobbled together in different flavors that eventually settled into there respected niches.

Amazing.

On top of that, over time, creators have honed in and refined each one to a pinnacle representation of the original concept.

But, the ongoing search for the grail tones of years past becomes more costly, and the "Fakers" (modeling) really do not cut it.

You  may say they do,  (since you bought into it) but, they really do not.

Man, if I had some the equipment I have now and had it 40 years ago... wow.

But then, My Les Paul Custom is going to be 50 this year, and nothing needs to be done to it except a string change ;)

back to my coffee

 

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59 minutes ago, murkat said:

But, the ongoing search for the grail tones of years past becomes more costly, and the "Fakers" (modeling) really do not cut it.

You  may say they do,  (since you bought into it) but, they really do not.

Damn, Jay.  You're speaking my language!  A friend of mine has a Kemper and while it's the best modeler I've heard/played to date, it still doesn't properly replicate the "verge of breakup" and mild overdrive feel/sound like an actual tube-powered amp. 

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I'm using the best of both worlds (well for me anyway). Vintage amp (Canadian no less! :) ) with a mixture of analog pedals and the LINE 6 HX effects. 

I love my core tones and then the Line 6 is icing on the cake. I can't verify that every single effect is as good as the real deal, but the flexibility is incredible. 

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30 minutes ago, Biz Prof said:

Damn, Jay.  You're speaking my language!  A friend of mine has a Kemper and while it's the best modeler I've heard/played to date, it still doesn't properly replicate the "verge of breakup" and mild overdrive feel/sound like an actual tube-powered amp. 

I desperately want to be able to buy a modeler amp/software package and simplify, especially since I haven't played out in years, but nothing I've heard through monitors or high-end cans captures the nuances and interplay between the gtr/amp, tube selection, cabinet construction, and physical speaker response of a real tube amp and real speakers in a real room. My tweeds and brownie will stay with me until my hearing goes. There's no digital algorithm that can replicate the in-room experience. They sound damn close on some recordings, but I'm not recording. I'm playing live in the same room, and that hasn't been replicated yet, to my ears. I don't need to feel my pants flapping in the wind in front of a cranked full stack, but there is a physical element missing that leaves me cold whenever I've tried a modeling rig.

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3 hours ago, murkat said:

Most, if not all, came from the Military machine. What was left over from War was hobbled together in different flavors that eventually settled into there respected niches.

Amazing.

On top of that, over time, creators have honed in and refined each one to a pinnacle representation of the original concept.

But, the ongoing search for the grail tones of years past becomes more costly, and the "Fakers" (modeling) really do not cut it.

I remember hearing people say that many of the earliest guitar amplifier designs were almost straight out of the RCA handbook. I was surprised how much tube tech was originally made for military use. I think the 6L6 was originally part of a servo circuit in airplanes. I mean, if you really want to get some serious hi-fi these days, you can go for a Balanced Audio Technology VK-75, which runs Ulyanov 6C33C-B tubes, also known for running MIG Jet Radar Sets.

As for modelers, they have come a long way, but the magic isn't there. It's one thing to model a simple overdrive circuit from simple overdrive pedals, but modelling the feel and response of an entire amp? Nope.  Right now things are REALLY GOOD. Hopefully the continuing supply issues clear up so that people can get the amps they've been waiting for.

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2 hours ago, Biz Prof said:

it still doesn't properly replicate the "verge of breakup" and mild overdrive feel/sound like an actual tube-powered amp. 

I learned my lesson hard. Sold my (Very Vintage Marshalls) 50 watt and 100 watt heads to fine individuals here on the board

and bought into the modeling hype... had the heads... "modeled". Never, ever again.

And those HFC's have some of the best Vintage Marshall Heads out there.

stupid stupid stupid.

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2 minutes ago, tbonesullivan said:

straight out of the RCA handbook

You are correct. Aspen Pitman goes into great detail in regards of in his first book... it's around here somewhere.....

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