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Bolt-Ons and $$$


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4 hours ago, diablo175 said:

I have this CS on order (with a different finish). Sure, it's the Charvel counterpart to Jackson but still FMIC. Made in USA, bolt on with a hard case and $800 more than the OP's Jackson.

 

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Looks cool.  Again, with Jackson doing the bolt on thing and both having the 12-16" radius, they don't have much difference between them.  I noticed a couple of the MIJ models have Gotoh trems now, so that's something.  

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How is Jackson getting away with a blatant copy of a Fender Stratocaster? I realize that everybody is making a copy of Leo's original creations but that headstock is Fender all the way. 

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Just now, shankyboy said:

How is Jackson getting away with a blatant copy of a Fender Stratocaster? I realize that everybody is making a copy of Leo's original creations but that headstock is Fender all the way. 

Although, technically, Leo did steal that headstock design from Bigsby. 

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19 minutes ago, shankyboy said:

How is Jackson getting away with a blatant copy of a Fender Stratocaster? I realize that everybody is making a copy of Leo's original creations but that headstock is Fender all the way. 

I’m guessing it has something to do with Fender owning Jackson and allowing them to do it because there’s enough demand from fans/players who want the Jackson name on it. 

I mean, other than the compound radius, is there really anything on the OP guitar that you couldn’t find on a Fender?  Maybe the neck carve...?

Doesn’t Fender have ordering now where you can select from a bunch of available options to get your guitar a certain way without actually going thru the custom shop?

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1 minute ago, Travis said:

other than the compound radius, is there really anything on the OP guitar that you couldn’t find on a Fender?

Fender also offers strats with a compound radius, though it's 9.5-14 rather than 12-16.

 

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9 minutes ago, Travis said:

I’m guessing it has something to do with Fender owning Jackson and allowing them to do it because there’s enough demand from fans/players who want the Jackson name on it. 

I mean, other than the compound radius, is there really anything on the OP guitar that you couldn’t find on a Fender?  Maybe the neck carve...?

Doesn’t Fender have ordering now where you can select from a bunch of available options to get your guitar a certain way without actually going thru the custom shop?

Mostly the way the necks feel vs. Fender.  And the cool factor of "Jackson" or "Charvel" on a strat head for those of us who grew up at a certain time liking a certain kind of music. 

I was up to three, but I am down to just one now.  It's more a collection thing than anything really as, objectively, if you could find a Fender with an unfinished compound radius neck, it would be pretty much the same. But subjectively, if it says "Fender," I just can't get my head around it not having singles only.

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39 minutes ago, shankyboy said:

How is Jackson getting away with a blatant copy of a Fender Stratocaster? I realize that everybody is making a copy of Leo's original creations but that headstock is Fender all the way. 

Fender owns Jackson.

 

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Love my early 80's San Dimas pointy heads made with very talented American quality, craftsmanship & Pride NariNeq.png

The Japanese model 1's from the Chusin Gakki factory with gotoh trems were no slouches either

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EBMM guitars are getting up there now. But they are definitely top quality.  Also many of the Ibanez Prestige models are close to 2000 now, and the Japan Made signature models are closing in on 3000, if not beyond. Seems like the guitar prices for even bolt on guitars went way up in the past year or so.

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10 minutes ago, shankyboy said:

I did not know that. Hmmm. 

Yeah, it may be coincidence but we saw what happened when FMIC got there hands on Hamer (admittedly, Hamer came with a lot of it's own baggage) and there are points to be made for what's happening with Charvel & Jackson as well.  :(

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2 hours ago, Dave Scepter said:

 

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The Japanese model 1's from the Chusin Gakki factory with gotoh trems were no slouches either

The Japanese model/toothpaste logo Charvels were the best bang for the buck shredders 15-20 years ago. Can’t tell you how many of those I bought and sold for $200-$400 all day. Hell, the most I paid for one of my three Charvel 750xl’s was $550...

 

BTW, what’s the neck like on that Rhoads?  If you tell me it’s a rare fat/round neck then you’re also going to need to send me your address, a schedule of when you’re not home, and where the spare key to your house is...  The string thru USA Rhoads was one of my grail guitars for decades. Alas, the only couple I’ve ever held in my hands had thinner/flatter neck profiles. 

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2 hours ago, LucSulla said:

Mostly the way the necks feel vs. Fender.  And the cool factor of "Jackson" or "Charvel" on a strat head for those of us who grew up at a certain time liking a certain kind of music. 

I was up to three, but I am down to just one now.  It's more a collection thing than anything really as, objectively, if you could find a Fender with an unfinished compound radius neck, it would be pretty much the same. But subjectively, if it says "Fender," I just can't get my head around it not having singles only.

You know that Jake E Lee’s white “Charvel” Strat was a fender that he had repainted and they put the Charvel logo on the headstock even tho it was a Fender neck...

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Just now, Dave Scepter said:

Coincidentally it is

Oh god...  you’re killing me...

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3 hours ago, Travis said:

You know that Jake E Lee’s white “Charvel” Strat was a fender that he had repainted and they put the Charvel logo on the headstock even tho it was a Fender neck...

If I was rational, I wouldn't own...  I don't know how many guitars I own.

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Referring back to the OP's questions about production bolt-ons and $, the most I've ever spent on a stringed instrument was for a production bolt-on. In my case it was a (used) Lakland USA Hollowbody bass. It's really too nice for the places we get booked into, so it rarely gets played outside of the house.

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To the original post, I think there are bolt-ons, then there are bolt-ons. Bolt-on shouldn't mean cheap all of the time. Hell, all Taylor acoustics, Collings acoustics are bolt ons. Paying a premium for superior fit, finish and playability is certainly money well spent to some of us. Not that you can't find great playing guitars for less, we all know we can. However, there is a level of craftsmanship and playability that you get from an Anderson, Suhr, and some others that set them apart from the under $2K builders in most cases. Some of these guys offer guitars sans fancy wood patterns in the $2K neighborhood. Many times at $3K you are paying a premium for fancy wood. PRS' fretwork is incredible and their Silver Sky can be had at $2200 street new. Suhr has some offerings closer to $2K. Bottom line, is if I KNOW it's going to sound above average, and play above average, I'm willin' to pay above average. I like to live in the past as much as the next guy, I however realize that average is no longer $750 and above average is no longer $1500. Average today seems to be at or around the $2K mark. Above average, well, seems it should be above $2K.

 

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2 hours ago, gtrdaddy said:

To the original post, I think there are bolt-ons, then there are bolt-ons. Bolt-on shouldn't mean cheap all of the time. Hell, all Taylor acoustics, Collings acoustics are bolt ons. Paying a premium for superior fit, finish and playability is certainly money well spent to some of us. Not that you can't find great playing guitars for less, we all know we can. However, there is a level of craftsmanship and playability that you get from an Anderson, Suhr, and some others that set them apart from the under $2K builders in most cases. Some of these guys offer guitars sans fancy wood patterns in the $2K neighborhood. Many times at $3K you are paying a premium for fancy wood. PRS' fretwork is incredible and their Silver Sky can be had at $2200 street new. Suhr has some offerings closer to $2K. Bottom line, is if I KNOW it's going to sound above average, and play above average, I'm willin' to pay above average. I like to live in the past as much as the next guy, I however realize that average is no longer $750 and above average is no longer $1500. Average today seems to be at or around the $2K mark. Above average, well, seems it should be above $2K.

 

But as we get older, don’t we all pine for the good old days?  You know how it was, back in my day....  

 

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2 hours ago, gtrdaddy said:

To the original post, I think there are bolt-ons, then there are bolt-ons. Bolt-on shouldn't mean cheap all of the time. Hell, all Taylor acoustics, Collings acoustics are bolt ons. Paying a premium for superior fit, finish and playability is certainly money well spent to some of us. Not that you can't find great playing guitars for less, we all know we can. However, there is a level of craftsmanship and playability that you get from an Anderson, Suhr, and some others that set them apart from the under $2K builders in most cases. Some of these guys offer guitars sans fancy wood patterns in the $2K neighborhood. Many times at $3K you are paying a premium for fancy wood. PRS' fretwork is incredible and their Silver Sky can be had at $2200 street new. Suhr has some offerings closer to $2K. Bottom line, is if I KNOW it's going to sound above average, and play above average, I'm willin' to pay above average. I like to live in the past as much as the next guy, I however realize that average is no longer $750 and above average is no longer $1500. Average today seems to be at or around the $2K mark. Above average, well, seems it should be above $2K.

 

I get what you're saying and agree everything costs a bit more, but I don't know that I agree that average is $2k.  

The best playing bolt on I have, for whatever reason, is a late 90s Fender USA Roadhouse Strat.  It's a tad upgraded from the USA standards of that era but not much, really just better pickups.  I don't know why, but it's just the playingest strat I've ever owned and also the stratest sounding strat to boot.  I bought it in 2017 for $600.  I've thought about buying a second because they only made them for four years, and if there was just something generally in the sauce for all of them and I didn't just happen into a good one, I'd love to have a backup.  They seem to have crept up to around $1k - $1.2k.  That's a little higher than I'm willing to go for a backup.  However, assuming they are as good, Above average for me for a bolt on is at that price.  

I think it really comes down to what an individual considers average.  I'd consider a guitar you are happy to gig with but doesn't make you marvel or get frustrated with the fit, finish, or tone straight out of the box would be at least average to me.  I've never thought the Fender had the best fret work and so on, but likewise, it isn't so poor that I've ever thought about it at all either way.   It just does what it's supposed to do, and I love it.  It's not a museum piece, rare, or an example of just how refined a guitar can be.  However, it does sound good, feels good, and I can play the shit out of it. 

Personally, I still think it's pretty easy to find "sounds good, feels good, and I can play the shit out of it." for around $1k for a bolt on.  Now, if average to someone else is a guitar where the frets are so glassy smooth that running your hand down get you aroused, I can see why $2k would seem more where it's at. 

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1 hour ago, LucSulla said:

I get what you're saying and agree everything costs a bit more, but I don't know that I agree that average is $2k.  

The best playing bolt on I have, for whatever reason, is a late 90s Fender USA Roadhouse Strat.  It's a tad upgraded from the USA standards of that era but not much, really just better pickups.  I don't know why, but it's just the playingest strat I've ever owned and also the stratest sounding strat to boot.  I bought it in 2017 for $600.  I've thought about buying a second because they only made them for four years, and if there was just something generally in the sauce for all of them and I didn't just happen into a good one, I'd love to have a backup.  They seem to have crept up to around $1k - $1.2k.  That's a little higher than I'm willing to go for a backup.  However, assuming they are as good, Above average for me for a bolt on is at that price.  

I think it really comes down to what an individual considers average.  I'd consider a guitar you are happy to gig with but doesn't make you marvel or get frustrated with the fit, finish, or tone straight out of the box would be at least average to me.  I've never thought the Fender had the best fret work and so on, but likewise, it isn't so poor that I've ever thought about it at all either way.   It just does what it's supposed to do, and I love it.  It's not a museum piece, rare, or an example of just how refined a guitar can be.  However, it does sound good, feels good, and I can play the shit out of it. 

Personally, I still think it's pretty easy to find "sounds good, feels good, and I can play the shit out of it." for around $1k for a bolt on.  Now, if average to someone else is a guitar where the frets are so glassy smooth that running your hand down get you aroused, I can see why $2k would seem more where it's at. 

 

On 3/31/2021 at 2:28 PM, LucSulla said:

I'm not being cynical here at all.  I have no problem with Fender trying to get what they can get.  Just more generally, is there an argument beyond that for paying nearly $3k for a production bolt-on?

I was addressing your original question. I didn't realize we're comparing buying new vs buying used. Used is a better deal each time if it's a great guitar at a considerable discount from what new ones cost.

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50 minutes ago, gtrdaddy said:

 

I was addressing your original question. I didn't realize we're comparing buying new vs buying used. Used is a better deal each time if it's a great guitar at a considerable discount from what new ones cost.

My original question should probably have noted that, hence the confusion.  I've honestly never considered buying a new production bolt-on, but any that do tickle my fancy are up around that $2k mark. 

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I love USA Jackson guitars and Japan Jacksons, but I wouldn`t pay over $2K for a USA bolt-on or $1K for a Japan guitar and definitely not with a Gigbag. I am talking about new guitars. Used, way-way less. I hate Fender and how they are running Jackson and their stupid Master Build charges so they are out. There prices are crazy now.

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