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PSA: Looks Like Martin Is Using 'Sustainable Ebony'


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Saw this particular example at DGS recently (no affiliation):

https://www.davesguitar.com/collections/all-products-latest/products/00-20

Most of you have already heard about Bob Taylor's push to use 'Sustainable Ebony' from a few years back:

https://www.taylorguitars.com/about/sustainable-ebony

This is the first time I've seen a new guitar that used Ebony, that was something like what he'd been talking about in a 'regular' production guitar, without having some marketing moniker attached about the 'charactered' Ebony that was used for it.  Myself, I mostly use 'sustainable' sources when buying guitars anymore, in other words I buy used guitars that somebody else bought new and eventually got rid of.  It's better for the environment (the trees were already cut long ago); plus, in most cases,  it's cheaper, as long as the guitars aren't vintage or collectable or both! B)

Thoughts about buying a new guitar (and paying a new guitar price) that has wood that looks that way?  Hipsters might like it, but I'm not so sure about anybody else.

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I have seen some great examples, at least some that I personally like, with tropical hardwood with both heartwood and sapwood. And there are nice examples of Macassar Ebony that have a nice figure. Different than the usual request for "as dark as possible" but it can have some character. I cannot say that particular Taylor calls out to me.


An example of one that appealed to me. Though not enough to pay the asking price....😏

Solid Brazilian neck and pickguard........Wish I still had a picture of the back to show the full neck.

Hartung LP 3.jpgHartung Sephie BRW.jpg

 

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The guitar I was referring to above in the DGS listing is a Martin OO-18, not a Taylor...but I wouldn't be surprised, and I actually suspect, that the Ebony on the Martin came from the same source that Taylor uses/owns.  I'm not sure if it qualifies as a monopoly, so I'll leave that up to others.

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36 minutes ago, bubs_42 said:

This is not new news, this is definitely pre pandemic info. Good read, info, but old info non the less. 

Oh, I'm well aware of that, but that wasn't what I was getting at.  Now that big guitar makers are using Ebony they wouldn't have touched in the past on a brand-new $2600 guitar, if you want more 'traditional'-looking Ebony on a new guitar, you'll probably have to pay more.  Or buy used like me.

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41 minutes ago, HamerCustomEr said:

Yuck!  I remember reading somewhere that  historically, a lot of the black ebony out there had been stained to be so black anyway.

'Ebonized' wood (fretboards, bridges, etc.) used to be common on guitars and furniture made of cheaper woods many years ago:

https://schoolofwoodwork.com/ebonizing-wood-with-the-witches-brew/

...though after many years, the original wood might not be in good shape because of it:

https://www.snathanieladams.com/2018/06/scourge-of-ebonized-fretboards.html

BTW, 'ebonizing' wood won't make it as hard as Ebony, it's only meant to make the wood look like Ebony.  Nowadays, dyes seem to be the way to go, I've heard of some guitar owners using leather dye, but I'm no expert at any of that, I would defer to any of our guitar techs/repairpersons on the HFC for advice.

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I like a nice grain like that in a fretboard, especially if it still has that nice, super smooth feel of ebony.  Even with rosewood, I've always been drawn to the boards that have nice figuring.  It's so much more interesting than plain black or plain brown.

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Guitar companies had been staining the streaks out of ebony for quite some time. I've seem some oooold pianos with real ivory covered keys, and the ebony used in those was kinda streaky.  I don't really know when the demand for perfectly black ebony wood started, but it was sad that streaky ebony logs were pretty much left to rot because they wouldn't sell for as much.

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On 5/3/2022 at 4:02 PM, crunchee said:

The guitar I was referring to above in the DGS listing is a Martin OO-18, not a Taylor...but I wouldn't be surprised, and I actually suspect, that the Ebony on the Martin came from the same source that Taylor uses/owns.  I'm not sure if it qualifies as a monopoly, so I'll leave that up to others.

Re: monopoly, I think that if you look into what Taylor did, basically he's saving ebony as a species.  And, if he gets a monopoly outta that- well, slick move?

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There is a traditional look we get stuck on.  Les Paul Customs have the black ebony with the block inlays.  It is expected that the ebony will not have any streaks.  If one wants a classic Martin reissue, the ebony must look like it did decades ago.  The sound is not affected, but the look sure plays games with our heads. 

Taylor and other guitar companies with their own designs can use the natural ebony without any problem.  Martin and the other companies known for their acoustics can use the streaked wood on their newer models.  I am glad they are doing it. 

Flaxwood guitars are taking things a step further with injection molded wood fiber for their instruments.  Their instruments are being played on stage by Scandinavian bands. 

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Guitar owners/players are a picky (and nit-picky) bunch as everyone knows (me included), so time will tell what the reception is gonna be, as more new guitars start showing up with 'Sustainable' Ebony on/in them.

Speaking of LP Customs, anybody remember the period of time when Gibson was using Richlite fretboards on those, instead of Ebony, back when Henry J. was still at Gibson?  IIRC, this occurred several years ago, after the Feds 'visited' Gibson regards their wood supply and sources in the early 2010s.  Richlite doesn't have any grain to it at all, apparently (I've never owned anything with Richlite, though); but supposedly it still takes a practiced eye to tell the two apart on a guitar.  I've noticed that Martin has used Richlite fretboards on some of their lower-end acoustics since then, too.

FWIW, I do own a couple of New Hartford-made Model 1111 Ovation Balladeer acoustics from the early-mid 1980s, which I use when I'm in the mood for acoustic playing and as spare guitars for visitors or for acoustic jam sessions (though thanks to Covid, it's been a while since that's happened).  The 1111s were the 'base' model Balladeer, apparently...no electronics, and dot inlays only on the Ebony fretboard.  I've cleaned the fretboards on both with naptha (lighter fluid) and a clean cloth, and 'conditioned' them afterwards with Gerlitz Guitar Honey, and the only thing that came off of the fretboards was trace amounts of dirt...no dyes came off, and no staining to my fingers.  There are streaks of lighter wood on the ebony fretboards of both guitars, but they're actually pretty small, and nothing big or obvious to see from a distance.  But the strings on the guitar do a pretty good job of camouflaging those also, or at least in distracting anyone's attention from them.

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Correct me if I am wrong.....I think Richlite is a hard plastic that has some properties similar to wood. Many people may not feel or hear the difference.

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Some claim it's a little more bright sounding, some claim darker, some claim it gave them an STD... The few guitars I've played with it I didn't notice anything whatsoever. I was of course not at STADIUM volumes either, just dinking and plinking probably isn't a completely fair test. But, heck if done right it looks just like the material it's copying....

https://www.richlite.com/pages/fretboards

Quote

Is it really paper?

Richlite is an incredibly durable, extremely versatile, and highly sustainable material made from resin-infused paper. Originally developed over 70 years ago for industrial tooling and pattern making, Richlite has expanded into a premium surface material used in the aerospace, marine, action sports, culinary, architecture, and design industries, and in machine shops and automotive manufacturing. Handmade from many layers of high quality custom craft paper, Richlite’s surface texture comes from the natural variation in the way fibers lay within the paper. Composed of approximately 65% FSC®-certified or recycled paper content and 35% phenolic resin, Richlite’s color comes from a combination of the paper and the amber tone of the resin.

A signature mottled appearance and warmth complement Richlite’s range of interior and exterior applications including furniture, cabinetry, cladding, skateparks, consumer products, signage, retail displays, restaurant tables, bar tops, and worktops, and for industrial use in die stock, silent gears, and foundry patterns. Dense and durable, yet easily tooled, pleasing to the eye, and with its smooth, natural aesthetic, Richlite has become a choice material for a wide range of architects, designers, industrial manufacturers and product developers. From guitar fret boards, culinary cutting surfaces, skateparks, mobile phone cases, industrial tooling molds, and router blocks, Richlite can be found in a wide range of products and industries.

 

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Back when I worked at Peavey in the early to mid '80s they tried using phenolic fretboards on some of their guitars. As I recall, what they used reacted to changes in humidity differently than the maple in the necks. There were complaints about constantly having to tweak truss rods to keep the necks playable.

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2 hours ago, django49 said:

Correct me if I am wrong.....I think Richlite is a hard plastic that has some properties similar to wood. Many people may not feel or hear the difference.

I had an SG with Richlite. It was perfectly fine. I think most folks wouldn’t notice. 

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10 hours ago, crunchee said:

 

Speaking of LP Customs, anybody remember the period of time when Gibson was using Richlite fretboards on those, instead of Ebony,  

I would not mind owning one of these if I found one at very good price. The Richlite kills the re-sale value on these LP Customs, compared to the ones with ebony. So if you want a Custom, but don't care about the ebony, then good deals can be found.

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16 hours ago, django49 said:

Correct me if I am wrong.....I think Richlite is a hard plastic that has some properties similar to wood. Many people may not feel or hear the difference.

Nope.  Richlite is a super compressed sawdust compound.  Not shiny by nature.  I have Martins and Taylors with real ebony fingerboards (and vastly prefer them to maple, about on par with a nice piece of rosewood) and recently got a mid-grade Martin with a Richlite fingerboard.  It's absolutely smooth, no grain at all (like a really old school ebony board), seems to be holding up nicely after being my daily driver for a year and a half and I'm very pleased with the tone of the guitar.  Most Esteemed Redhead is impressed as well.  I don't give much of a hoot if ebony is figured, I've seen some pretty cool pieces, just like the feel.  And as long as the figuring doesn't detract from the design lines of the guitar, fine.

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