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Mixer with effects?


hamerhead

Question

Looking to replace my Mackie 1402 and rack effects with something similar in size but with effects built-in. So far I like the Soundcraft EFX12, the Mackie ProFX16v3 and the Yamaha MG16XU.

Anything else I should look at?

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Yamaha, Allen & Heath, Soundcraft, I don't think you can go wrong.   PreSonus should be pretty good too.   Korg has the MW series as well, Greg Mackie co-designed it.

If you want to go digital with iPad control, Soundcraft and Allen & Heath have some good models there too.  

If you're interested, I have a Mackie DL1608 that's not being used. PM me if so.  

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I have really liked the mixers that Presonas has. 

The others mentioned are all good. I used a 12 channel Peavey rack mount w effects that really surprised me and their around $200.00 used. 

Good luck!

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On 11/19/2022 at 6:46 PM, murkat said:

....what rack fx you parting with?

I currently use a hundred-year-old Rocktron Intellifex for reverb and 200-year-old ART DR-X 2100 for delay. They work fine but with the new powered stick speakers I got, I want to streamline my crap even more.

 

On 11/19/2022 at 9:27 PM, scottcald said:

If you're interested, I have a Mackie DL1608 that's not being used. PM me if so

Well that's interesting. Hadn't seen one of those before. But I really need to stick with the old-fangled way. B)

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1 hour ago, hamerhead said:

I currently use a hundred-year-old Rocktron Intellifex for reverb and 200-year-old ART DR-X 2100 for delay. They work fine but with the new powered stick speakers I got, I want to streamline my crap even more.

 

Well that's interesting. Hadn't seen one of those before. But I really need to stick with the old-fangled way. B)

No worries.  Any of the above suggestions should work well.  

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I've got an old Yamaha MG16/6fx, Yamaha builds good/solid stuff.  It's a bit larger than a 12 or 14 channel board (standard size for a 16ch, similar to the Mackei), but it does a whole lot more than a micro mixer.

  I would never buy a board without sweepable midrange, and some reverb. You can make things sound much better with the sweepable mid.

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Anybody use or try a Behringer? Specifically, the Xenyx X2442USB? The cheapskate in me says it's good enough for my needs, but I really hate disposable gear. Will it last? The reviews are good 'for the money' and it's not going to live a hard life.

Otherwise, I'm leaning hard towards the Soundcraft EFX12.

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I'd go with the Soundcraft just because I hate Behringer.  I've purchased some of their stuff, and it's all right, but they always seem to have an obvious cost cutting choice just to say that something is there.  Like the XR18 has wireless built in, but it's like a 15 year old protocol and the one of the encryption protocols they implement has long been cracked (WEP).   Buying that was definitely a "good enough" thing for me and the thing to convince me to never buy from them again.  The TC tuners are the only thing of theirs I've bought since, but always looking for a replacement.  

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On 11/19/2022 at 7:46 PM, murkat said:

id go yamaha, built in spx should be top shelf. what rack fx you parting with?

Yes, Yamaha

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I've Set up and/or mixed on the following Consoles: Soundcraft Vi3000, Si Impact, Si Performer 1, Allen & Heath SQ-7

My favorite is the SQ-7 but the Soundcraft Si series is very good and reliable.

The Yamaha MGP series of consoles is something I'm going to explore because it appears to be analog class A preamps with traditional control, but with digital recall.

I can't be certain about how much the digital part controls, but Yamaha has always made well thought out gear that's reliable and sounds good.

 

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2 hours ago, scottcald said:

I'd go with the Soundcraft just because I hate Behringer.  I've purchased some of their stuff, and it's all right, but they always seem to have an obvious cost cutting choice just to say that something is there.  Like the XR18 has wireless built in, but it's like a 15 year old protocol and the one of the encryption protocols they implement has long been cracked (WEP).   Buying that was definitely a "good enough" thing for me and the thing to convince me to never buy from them again.  The TC tuners are the only thing of theirs I've bought since, but always looking for a replacement.  

Yes I hate Ulrich Behringer too. Same disdain for Mackie.

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47 minutes ago, HSB0531 said:

I've Set up and/or mixed on the following Consoles: Soundcraft Vi3000, Si Impact, Si Performer 1, Allen & Heath SQ-7

My favorite is the SQ-7 but the Soundcraft Si series is very good and reliable.

The Yamaha MGP series of consoles is something I'm going to explore because it appears to be analog class A preamps with traditional control, but with digital recall.

I can't be certain about how much the digital part controls, but Yamaha has always made well thought out gear that's reliable and sounds good.

 

Allen & Heath are great too.  Haven't used any of the ones you mentioned, so can't speak to them, but in the past I've mixed on Yamaha PM1800 and 2500 and the PM5D.  Great stuff.  I've also used some of the A&H and Soundcraft mid- market stuff that was great.   Also, a Presonus 16.0.2 which was good until you go outside in the sun and can't read the display.  

Yes, it pained me when Behringer bought Midas and other brands I'd liked.  

On 11/21/2022 at 4:54 PM, Jimbilly said:

I would never buy a board without sweepable midrange, and some reverb. You can make things sound much better with the sweepable mid.

Absolutely.  That's one of the things I liked about the new smaller digital mixers is that you had more sweepable bands and could really dial things in even more.  I always grimaced going to see a group in a bar or club and they had a small mixer with the like 80 or 100, 1k, 10k or 12k EQ bands and the guy running it had all the 1k controls cut way down like 9dB or so.  And he's sitting there like he just cracked the audio code.   

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12 hours ago, scottcald said:

Allen & Heath are great too.  Haven't used any of the ones you mentioned, so can't speak to them, but in the past I've mixed on Yamaha PM1800 and 2500 and the PM5D.  Great stuff.  I've also used some of the A&H and Soundcraft mid- market stuff that was great.   Also, a Presonus 16.0.2 which was good until you go outside in the sun and can't read the display.  

Yes, it pained me when Behringer bought Midas and other brands I'd liked.  

Absolutely.  That's one of the things I liked about the new smaller digital mixers is that you had more sweepable bands and could really dial things in even more.  I always grimaced going to see a group in a bar or club and they had a small mixer with the like 80 or 100, 1k, 10k or 12k EQ bands and the guy running it had all the 1k controls cut way down like 9dB or so.  And he's sitting there like he just cracked the audio code.   

Midas was great until Behringer.  Same when Peavey bought Crest.

Getting into the sweepable midrange, I agree that you absolutely need 3 bands of Eq. on each console channel.  But, you'd be surprised how little you need if you're careful in choosing your Mics.

I've found that using a shelving EQ. on the High and Low sections, while having a sweepable Midrange works best. 

A Low Shelf EQ. boosts or cuts everything up to the frequency you set it at, and gradually cuts the frequencies above it down about 3dB. then flattens out.  When you combine a 60Hz. shelf EQ. with a 50Hz. high pass filter, you get a nice bump at 60 and a gentle roll off from 50 on down.  Great for bringing out the kick drum and bass without destroying speakers. 

 A High Shelf EQ. boosts or cuts everything from the frequency you set it at, and gradually cuts the frequencies below that frequency down about 3dB. then flattens out.  If you select 10kHz. and boost, you will boost everything from 10K on while rolling off everything below 10K.

Note that High and Low shelfing EQ's. aren't high or low pass filters in that they only roll off frequencies to a degree then they flattens out, whereas a filter will continually cut. 

What ever type of Channel EQ. would have, hopefully it doesn't have a Low Freq. fixed 80 Hz.  60Hz. is ideal if it's fixed. Best for Kick and Bass guitar.

Regarding Feedback:  If you're getting feedback on a specific channel, it could be that the input trim (gain) is a little too high, making the Mic too sensitive to other instruments. 

Regarding Mic Polar Patterns:  If you're using Cardioid mics you will get very good feedback rejection on the sides, great rejection on the back unless you've got loud monitors or a loud band .  That's where Super Cardioid and Hyper Cardioid Mics work better, but, they do pick up sound in the bass region behind them, and it would be good to set the high pass filter to 80Hz.  This will help attenuate low frequencies from both the stage floor and Drums & Amps

Fully Parametric Midrange EQ.:  Having a fully parametric mids would be ideal. This would allow you to use it as a notch filter for feedback control, or as a bell curve to boost or cut a narrow to wide range of frequencies. Having 2 midrange sections would be better still.  Fully parametric means that you have controls for boost/cut, frequency selection, and bandwidth or "Q" which can be printed on the control in octaves. A high Q is a wide octave range of frequencies while a low Q is a narrow range of frequencies.  A high Q would be a bell filter, and a low Q would be a notch filter.

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, hamerhead said:

Well I just bought a used Soundcraft FX16ii off Reverb from Sam Ash for less than 1/2 of new. Wish me luck.

SoundCraft is very good gear! Great preamps and eq!

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On 12/7/2022 at 3:14 PM, Dutchman said:

SoundCraft is very good gear! Great preamps and eq!

I remember selling the Soundcraft boards in the mid 1980's, specifically the 800B.  I did like that one, and those had individual channel and routing modules.  The Soundcraft rep would do a seminar every year at our store, and he brought in a Brit from Soundcraft to discuss the "new" boards.  Every year he'd announce; "We've finally perfected the Mic Pre's"  After 3 seminars I yelled out; "You say that every year!"

I'm glad I'm getting laughs over that last sentence because it was too funny to make up.

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 That looks really good! My quick&dirty for the mid (if you don't already know this...): boost the mid level, sweep to find where it sounds the worst, then cut that frequency a bit, my ears often say 400hz, your ears may vary.   Another quick tip that you may already know: you can do drums for a pretty big room with just 3 or 4 mics, one on the kick and 2 overheads, and maybe one on the snare, the overheads will collect the snare pretty good in most cases, and you'll still have enough inputs for everything else, without spending an hour mic-ing the drums. 

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2 hours ago, Jimbilly said:

.....(if you don't already know this...)

I am by no means a sound guy. I'm taking in -  and appreciating! - every word you guys are saying and at some point will compile a list. :) Thanks for all the help.

Great stuff so far! Keep it coming!

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3 hours ago, Jimbilly said:

 That looks really good! My quick&dirty for the mid (if you don't already know this...): boost the mid level, sweep to find where it sounds the worst, then cut that frequency a bit, my ears often say 400hz, your ears may vary.   Another quick tip that you may already know: you can do drums for a pretty big room with just 3 or 4 mics, one on the kick and 2 overheads, and maybe one on the snare, the overheads will collect the snare pretty good in most cases, and you'll still have enough inputs for everything else, without spending an hour mic-ing the drums. 

That also depends on the speakers you're going through and the room, but that neighborhood is rife with needing cuts.  My ear often goes to 300-350Hz range.   Sometimes depending on the player, I'd do a kick, a mic just over the toms on the kick but pointed at the snare, and then the two overheads.  

 When I learned the method @Jimbillyis talking about, the guy called it the Seek and Destroy method.  

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3 hours ago, Jimbilly said:

 That looks really good! My quick&dirty for the mid (if you don't already know this...): boost the mid level, sweep to find where it sounds the worst, then cut that frequency a bit, my ears often say 400hz, your ears may vary.   Another quick tip that you may already know: you can do drums for a pretty big room with just 3 or 4 mics, one on the kick and 2 overheads, and maybe one on the snare, the overheads will collect the snare pretty good in most cases, and you'll still have enough inputs for everything else, without spending an hour mic-ing the drums. 

Regarding the drum mics: yes you can do the Glyn Johns method.  He's famous for Mic'ng John Bonham's kit in a very tall front hall with I believe 3 Mics. Listen to "When the Levy Breaks, thats the 3 mic setup he did. One in front of the kick, one at the floor toms and pointing towards the H/H and one on the opposite side pointing down at the kit.  You can also do a 4 Mic as you said: Kick Out, Snare Top, Overhead Lt. and Rt. and get a great sound.  The most crucial thing is getting the Kick and Snare right.

Note: Take out some 700Hz. on the Kick mic, that works well.

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30 minutes ago, scottcald said:

That also depends on the speakers you're going through and the room, but that neighborhood is rife with needing cuts.  My ear often goes to 300-350Hz range.   Sometimes depending on the player, I'd do a kick, a mic just over the toms on the kick but pointed at the snare, and then the two overheads.  

 When I learned the method @Jimbillyis talking about, the guy called it the Seek and Destroy method.  

Yes, a live room ( lots of hard reflective surfaces) with a loud band will be a problem with overhead mics and, any condenser mic (more sensitive than dynamics). Close micing would be better in that situation, and if there isn't enough channels, one could always get a small 8-ch. mixer just for the drums and mix down to L/R into a stereo channel on the main board.

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The board has arrived - in under 24 hours! Wasn't really expecting that.... And there's not a mark on it. It looks like new. Hell, MY stuff has more dust on it than this. Damn.

So this afternoon I'll be hooking it up and making sure it all functions. WHOOHOO!

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2 hours ago, HSB0531 said:

Yes, a live room ( lots of hard reflective surfaces) with a loud band will be a problem with overhead mics and, any condenser mic (more sensitive than dynamics). Close micing would be better in that situation, and if there isn't enough channels, one could always get a small 8-ch. mixer just for the drums and mix down to L/R into a stereo channel on the main board.

Yeah, been there before.  Also depending, the ol' kick and snare mic will work in a pinch.  The cymbals will cut through.  

1 hour ago, hamerhead said:

The board has arrived - in under 24 hours! Wasn't really expecting that.... And there's not a mark on it. It looks like new. Hell, MY stuff has more dust on it than this. Damn.

So this afternoon I'll be hooking it up and making sure it all functions. WHOOHOO!

Cool, congrats!

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