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Man, I wish I knew everything like Luke.

Greg, you complain about business here often. If you were able to be rent or mortgage free in your business, wouldn't that make it more profitable? If this Val person is not accounting for the costs that you have forced to endure, he is not making an honest assessment of his business. Ironcially if Val's net is higher as result of low fixed costs, he is giving at least a 1/3 of that benefit back to the government in the form of income taxes.

My question all along has been, would a guy like Val be interested in the business if he had to endure all of the expenses a guy like Greg is forced to absorb? If you are born on third base don't tell the world you hit a triple.

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I have no idea whatsoever about Val's business, so I have no right to comment on it.

If BCR Music was going to have an IPO there would be a strict set of accounting standards which you would have to abide by. If a mom and pop operation want to compare apples to apples, they have too have to adhere to the accounting standards to determine what their business is truly worth on an open market. If you take the 2005 net profit for BCR and divide it by 1000, what P/E would you come to? Compare your number to the market average of 29 to see how you are doing versus the business community in general.

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The non-chain stores that are left in my 'hood (far west Chicago burbs, sometimes it feels closer to IOWA than Chicago, but that's a different story) have a pretty fair inventory of very nice guitars, amps, support gear, etc. One of the stores has a really nice Hamer Artist, '59 burst, wrap tail(?), dot neck, flawless condition. Its been hanging there since at least '98 when I moved here.

But once my kids got into grade school I learned that these same stores had HUGE committments to providing band instruments (clarinets, trumpets, tubas, etc) to the local school kids. And they provide supplemental lessons to the kids too. I'm sure those monthly instrument rental receipts made against mom&dad's ol' credit card sure make paying the rent & electric bill a lot easier.

Anyway, I suspect they make as much if not more on band instrument biz as guitar biz. You might investigate that part of the biz too.

noonan

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There are plenty of people who live far more rewarding and fulfilling lives doing something they enjoy and getting by than by pursuing the big bucks.  That's their right and more power to them.  I think it's great.

Amen.

Not to sound like a communist, but the Americans today who are willing to buck the system and not be influenced by the MASSIVE amount of cultural "peer pressure" to pursue $ at all costs deserve tremendous credit, and should be envied in many cases.

Don't get me wrong, I own my own business and do okay. But I use that good fortune as a vehicle to do the things I want to do with my life...play music, do things with my wife and kids, play golf, coach kids sports, etc AND help out those less fortunate when I can. I am not and will never become one who dedicates his entire life to seeing how much money he can make...that's not what it's about.

I believe that the national obsession with chasing money is at the root of most of our problems as a culture and a nation. 60 Minutes the other night said most working, salaried Americans now put in 70-80 hours per week at their jobs (including never getting away due to Blackberries, cell phones, etc). Sorry, not for me...

Sorry to derail, probably another thread here...

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There are plenty of people who live far more rewarding and fulfilling lives doing something they enjoy and getting by than by pursuing the big bucks. That's their right and more power to them. I think it's great.

+1

Thats the way I run my shop, and I guess thats the way Jeroen wants it too.

And I still have the time to mess with my guitars....

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On the subject of band instruments and mom and pop music stores...

One of the bigger music stores in my area does not look like much on the guitar side, but the band instruments have made a lot of money over the years. The same "mom and pop" store bragged about snagging a major part of another "mom and pop" store's business out from under them. This was worth a six figure amount. The same bragging store scoffed at the idea of one of the other music stores in the area acting as a drop off location. When that store went to Music & Arts the big "mom and pop" store's owner called to tell them how wrong they were. He had dropped the ball by not doing business with them when they asked for a business relationship. It is possible that some band directors have "incentive$" to send business to certain stores that handle band instruments.

The "mom and pop" stores doing band instruments grew into the equivalent of the big box stores a long time ago. The money stays local, but the ruthlessness or unethical issues has been in place for a long time.

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There are plenty of people who live far more rewarding and fulfilling lives doing something they enjoy and getting by than by pursuing the big bucks.  That's their right and more power to them.  I think it's great.

+ Infinity

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There are plenty of people who live far more rewarding and fulfilling lives doing something they enjoy and getting by than by pursuing the big bucks.  That's their right and more power to them.  I think it's great.

+ Infinity

I'm so rewarded and fulfilled that I whistle Dixie out of my asshole daily!

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There are plenty of people who live far more rewarding and fulfilling lives doing something they enjoy and getting by than by pursuing the big bucks.  That's their right and more power to them.  I think it's great.

+ Infinity

I'm so rewarded and fulfilled that I whistle Dixie out of my asshole daily!

Do it on the Jam and give us a soundclip (not a smellclip). :lol:

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Ease up, Rommel!

LOL!

I'm going to make sure I work that into a conversation with someone today!

I can't believe that your not using it already!

"Easy n00b" has served me well to this point, but I can adapt.

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One more thing on band instruments/Music & Arts. Music & Arts will set a store like us up as a satellite location, allowing us to make a little more coin. I'm thankful for that.

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It is a lot more complicated than people think. A business is simply a job you own. The point of your employment should be economic gain first, enjoyment second. When you confuse the purpose of your work you make bad economic decisions that have long lasting consequences.

(sorry for this long post, maybe somebody will find it helpful) :lol:

Forgive me Luke but this is where you are showing your ignorance. You are looking at it strictly from a economic prospective. I should also state that I know business and I was educated in the operation of small business enterprises (entrepreneurial studies) at the University of Southern California's Marshall School of Business. But what you have failed to acknowledge is that people have many other motivating factors when deciding whether to open their own business. People have dreams, hopes, feeling, psychological issues, love of the product, love of the environment and emotions that all go into this decision.

I learned this lesson really well in the 90's. This was a hard economic time in Southern California and commercial real estate prices dropped dramatically. During that period I worked for several large banks (Wells Fargo, Bank of America, and Union Bank to name a few) that repossessed shopping centers from developers. When the banks to them back, I would go in an asses each of the tenants and either adjust their rent and save them or evict them and then sale the shopping centers. During this period I evicted about 20 or so companies a months for about 2 1/2 years. At the beginning, I took Luke’s approach and looked only at the tenant’s books and saw that the majority weren't making money. I promptly showed them they weren’t making it and forced them to pay rent or I would evict them. My attitude changed after meeting a used book store owner.

As I had done with many other companies, I worked with the owner to calculate the businesses current income and how much he was making personally. We found out that he was making $2.15 an hour owning this book store. He was working 55 hours a week. At the time the minimum wage was $6.00. He literally could have walked across the parking lot and worked in the McDonalds and made 3 times his current wage. But this book store was his life dream. He simply loved books. It was all he wanted to do. He owned a small home and didn’t have any other financial commitments. He couldn't face his family as a failure. As long as he kept the store, he could hold his head up and maintain his dream. He was willing and happy to make less money to live his dream. Out of all of the people I worked with, this guy really stood out. He wasn't worried about making money just keeping his dream and his lifestyle alive. I worked with him on a few business strategies including adjusting his pricing and was able to kept the store alive and make more money. This worked because his store had a big local following. He still runs it today and is very very happy. Is he making much money, no. Is he fine with that, YES. Would it be something I would do or suggest my family do, NO. But it clearly works for him.

My friends at business school would probably laugh, but Money really isn't everything. It is a big factor in opening your own business but not the only one and probably not even the most important one from where I sit today.

So if you want to open a music store, go for it, but do as much due diligence as possible and realize what you are getting into before you begin. After you have completed your due diligence, if it makes since for you (not for anyone else) then go for it. However, keep in mind, if you want others to invest (including outside investors or a bank) you better show that it will make some money because like myself and Luke, we really aren’t interested in your dream just how much money we can make from it.

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My friends at business school would probably laugh, but Money really isn't everything. It is a big factor in opening your own business but not the only one and probably not even the most important one from where I sit today.

+1,000,000

I don't care what you do, but loving WHAT you do is more important than WHAT you make. This works for me, not a blanket policy for everyone I know that much. If the time is right for you "smoke 'em if ya got 'em"

:lol:

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Agreed. Very well put.

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I first read this some time ago, and it's kind of stuck with me:

An American businessman stood at the pier of a small coastal village in Mexico, when a small boat carrying a lone Mexican fisherman docked. Inside the small boat were several large yellowfin tuna. The American complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them. The fisherman replied, “Only a little while.”

The American then asked, “If it took only a little while to catch these fine fish, why didn't you stay out longer and catch more fish?” The fisherman explained that this catch was enough to support his family's immediate needs.

The American then asked, “But what do you do with the rest of your time?”

The fisherman replied, “I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take a siesta with my wife, and stroll into the village each evening, where I sip wine and play guitar with my amigos. I have a full and busy life, señor.”

The American scoffed, “I am a Harvard MBA and could help you. You should spend more time fishing and with the proceeds buy a bigger boat. With the proceeds from the bigger boat you could buy several boats. Eventually, you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middleman you would sell directly to the processor, eventually opening your own cannery. You would control the product, processing, and distribution. You would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, then L.A., and eventually New York City, where you would run your expanding enterprise.”

The fisherman asked, “But señor, how long will this all take?”

The American replied, “Fifteen to twenty years.”

“But what then, señor?” inquired the Mexican. The American laughed and said, “That's the best part. When the time is right, you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich. You would make millions.”

“Millions, señor? Then what?” asked the Mexican.

The American said, “Why, then you would retire, of course—move to a small coastal fishing village where you could sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take a siesta with your wife, and stroll into the village in the evenings, where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos.”

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Guest pirateflynn

I didn't realise an actual Music Store was being discussed. So, I have no comment on that either.

I value some of Luke's opinions as it is this type of research that led to our successful family business. Yes, it's important to have a balance between earning and quality of life and going into business well prepared will hopefully net those results. It has for us. If you only lead with your heart chances are you will either not be in business long or slowly go broke and find yourself a slave to the business. Sure, there are many happy, content business owners but there are plenty of them out there that wished they had seen the writing on the wall. Most of the time that writing is there to see but it is up to you to research it and develope an honest business plan that will reflect a return you can live with, short and long term. There is a difference between having a business as a hobby, or as supplemental income, and a business that must support a family consistantly. I love to see enterprise, more of us should consider this option and become part of the American dream. It's a challenge but so rewarding when it works. Good luck!

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I first read this some time ago, and it's kind of stuck with me:

Ding Ding Ding we have a winner.

Over the past couple of years I haven't worked very much, (only 30 hours a week.) I am driving my co-workers and business partners nuts. But I discovered for myself that it was time to smell the roses and play guitar a little more.

What makes guys like Donald Trump and Bill Gates go to work and work hard every day. They each have more money than they can ever spend, so it is clearly not money. What else is it? Whatever that thing IS, is the reason many people go into business. (Fame, power, interested in the subject, don't know what else to do, want to get away from their familiy........)

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I didn't realise an actual Music Store was being discussed. So, I have no comment on that either.

I value some of Luke's opinions as it is this type of research that led to our successful family business. Yes, it's important to have a balance between earning and quality of life and going into business well prepared will hopefully net those results. It has for us. If you only lead with your heart chances are you will either not be in business long or slowly go broke and find yourself a slave to the business. Sure, there are many happy, content business owners but there are plenty of them out there that wished they had seen the writing on the wall. Most of the time that writing is there to see but it is up to you to research it and develope an honest business plan that will reflect a return you can live with, short and long term. There is a difference between having a business as a hobby, or as supplemental income, and a business that must support a family consistantly. I love to see enterprise, more of us should consider this option and become part of the American dream. It's a challenge but so rewarding when it works. Good luck!

Another excellent post which I also appreciate. Ultimately, the best thing about being in business for yourself is controlling your own destiny. If you can't pay the bills, you relinquish that control to someone like straightblues and suddenly your destiny is to be put out on your ass.

There are certain realities in life. I think we all know that.

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