Convo with Hamer rep

There must be degrees of "deadness" to dead spots. On further review if my guitars issue I would say its weak and not totally dead. Its only really noticeable when I hold the note with high gain. It lasts a about 3 secs and warbles away to feedback sustain if the amp is loud enough. If I apply some finger vibrato I can coax a bit more out of it. Its interesting to note that if I tune down a half step it moves to the fret where that particular note it so I know its a resonance cancellation. With all the probs I have had with Gibsons lately Im blessed if thats all the problem I have from my Hamers.

 
Now why in the hell did you have to go and stir up this "deadspot" issue? Here I was perfectly happy with my '00s Newport Pro Custom and my Duotone and my mid '90s Artist & Eclipse & Mirage. Now I find myself sitting here with all my guitars out and a scope, and I'm calculating the decay time of the all the notes on all the strings on all these guitars !!!! Lo & behold I find that there is an imperceptable difference in decay of the note at the 12th fret of my Newport. Don't get me wrong, on a statistical basis it is indeed mathematically identifiable. But not to my ear. OH !!!! Son of a buck.....the Eclipse has one also, just not quite as bad as the Newport.

So here I sit with what I use to believe was a superior instrument. Now as a result of your "deadspot inquisition" I am the proud owner of a seriously flawed, el cheapo six string. Equivalent to something I could have picked out of the Sears catalog. Dammit, I knew I should have saved the money and bought that Danelectro !

;-) ;-) ;-)

Ok, ok, ok.........my tongue is now removed from my cheek.

Great googly moogly guys, I don't see this as a fatal flaw. Isn't it just part of the natural characteristics of any guitar. From a pure physics standpoint the 6 string - 22 fret - 24 3/4" scale guitar is not perfect. Some notes may not produce the exact precise mathematically correct frequency when they are fretted. Isn't this the myth/theory that Earvana & Buzz Feiten & a bunch of others work off of? Furthermore the fretted note may produce frequencies that collide with the harmonics of the rest of the guitar structure. So some notes sound better, some worse.

Play the good ones. Play around the bad ones. Bend the note. Vibrato the note. Ease up on your finger pressure. Bear down on your finger pressure. Go a few frets up or down on a neighboring string. Trust your ears and move your fingers.

Sorry. I'll get back to mowing the 14th tee now.

Noonan

PS - Oh man this deadspot on my Newport is gonna keep me staring at the ceiling for a few nights, I just KNOW it !!! Its as if George Costanza just became a Hamer critic.

 
The dead-spot on my guitar is whatever note I happen to be fretting. I suck as a player. The instruments are only rarely the limiting factor.

 
PS - Oh man this deadspot on my Newport is gonna keep me staring at the ceiling for a few nights, I just KNOW it !!!      Its as if George Costanza just became a Hamer critic.
Sorry about that Caddie /emoticons/default_blink.png

I was just struck by the comment from Hamer that the issue was pre-97.

Kinda like the Hameritis thing being from the past. Fresh examples of it on newer models and the odd finish problem on my Subtone's neck (fixed by the factory) are real.

 
Great googly moogly guys, I don't see this as a fatal flaw. Isn't it just part of the natural characteristics of any guitar. From a pure physics standpoint the 6 string - 22 fret - 24 3/4" scale guitar is not perfect. Some notes may not produce the exact precise mathematically correct frequency when they are fretted. Isn't this the myth/theory that Earvana & Buzz Feiten & a bunch of others work off of? Furthermore the fretted note may produce frequencies that collide with the harmonics of the rest of the guitar structure. So some notes sound better, some worse.Play the good ones. Play around the bad ones. Bend the note. Vibrato the note. Ease up on your finger pressure. Bear down on your finger pressure. Go a few frets up or down on a neighboring string. Trust your ears and move your fingers.

Sorry. I'll get back to mowing the 14th tee now.

Noonan

PS - Oh man this deadspot on my Newport is gonna keep me staring at the ceiling for a few nights, I just KNOW it !!! Its as if George Costanza just became a Hamer critic.
It isn't that easy...

When we are referring to a dead spot, we aren't referring to some imperceptable change in tone. I had a Special with a dead spot at the 12th fret g string...it was *very* noticable...you didn't need a scope to tell. I am talking serious drop in volume and virtually *zero* sustain.

Thats a pretty big deal bro...

Luckily, when I changed strings to .11s, it went away...

 
OK, so now this is grabbing my attention, and as a result I have several questions:

- Is this something that has been observed with both 24 3/4 scale and 25 1/2 scale guitars?

- Have you ever observed this on a bass?

- Have you ever observed this "deadspot issue" on a PRS, Gibson, Fender, Gretsch, McInturff, etc? or just Hamers?

- Is it more common on semi-hollow or hollowbody gutiars than on solid body guitars?

- Is it more common on setnecks, thru necks, or bolt ons?

Thanks guys.

Noonan

 
OMG...I started a mess!!..

Well after breaking out the ol 87 Standard Custom I have found a weak/dead spot on the 12th but nothing amiss on the 14th. Again its weak but not plunk dead. I picked up a Bill Lawrence Tele and it has a dead dead dea spot on about the 12th. My Studio Custom has a weak spot at the 14th on the G and finally my Gibson ES-137 which has a bat for a neck has no spots that I can detec, in fact its got more sustain than my other guits.

 
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FWIW, my brother had a '78 P-bass that seemed to be full of dead spots. They weren't really noticeable until we started recording.

 
Caddie,

I know of soild/hollow bod's with it, from all builders, it's NOT a Hamer thing.

Scale length isn't an issue nor set-necks or bolts....never played a neck-thru that had one and I've had quite a few. So I can't say.

 
It was once explained to me (by an Ovation rep, in fact) in a way that my bonehead guitar-player marbles could fathom. A guitar (or bass) neck is effectively a big wood-chime, like axylophone tone bar. There will be spots where it wants to resonate, and spots where it resonates, but the vibration transmisson throughout the guitar will either reinforce or cancel in an unpredictable manner.

However, response anomalies around the 12th fret have a higher likelihood of happening, simply because that spot is near the midpoint of the vibrating string. Vibrations that travel either direction from that point eventually get reflected back to that point, and, if they happen to arrive out of phase and similar in amplitude, some cancellation will occur. If they happen to arrive at the same time and in phase and similar amplitude, a wolf note (or extra-lively response, possibly with some wierd overtones) can occur.

Basses are more prone to this simply because of the dimensions and frequencies involved, and dead spots and wolf tones can happen just as easily around other neat mathematical divisions of the string length. This explains why basses are nearly always recorded with some degree of compression, to even the peaks and valleys out.

Having said all that, I've found no rhyme or reason or good predictor for the phenomenon. I've been around guitars for over 40 years, managed a pretty sizeable music store, am good buds with the biggest vintage guitar dealer in Ohio, etc., etc. But it's funny, now that I think of it, of all the neck thru's I've encountered (I currently own four, two guitars, two basses), I have yet to encounter the phenomenon. All have ebony boards so, who knows? That could be a factor. BUT, Ive never owned one that had the phenomenon to a sufficient degree to make me resort to any sort of measure to counteract it, or to a degree that prompted me to sell the guitar.

 
Add to all that, I was told by a luthier that the older a guitar gets the more likely it will develope dead spots AND they can move with age. Ist that a shitter?

 
Actually Brownsound. They were referring to musicians. And the spots are brown spots. And the actual phrase was they can barely move.....

picasso-old-guitarist.jpg


 
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